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Building PC $1500 - $1700/2000

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Hey guys i've been looking into getting a good computer after all my other ones have either broken, become redundent and old or are just medioca.

So i ask you if i can have some advice on this.
I also need a Moniter, keboard and Mouse * no gaming branded ones they are usualy overpriced with very little to put them ahead of the others.

Notes:
Prefered Australian sites or shops. ( www.umart.com.au )
price between 1500 - 1700 ( 2000 if need be )
I will be using it for rendering, computer graphics ( CAD, Inventer Revvit, Blender ) and gaming.
 
Here are some tips:

- Make sure your processor has at least 2 cores (Intel Processors are great by the way)
- Get Windows 7 64-bit Ultimate (It's one of the 3 Windows 7 OS's that recognizes 2+ cores)
- If you get a 32-bit OS, don't get more than 4GB of RAM
- If you get a 64-bit OS, you should get 4GB-8GB RAM (or 16 GB, but honestly, you'd never utilize HALF of those 16 GB :p)
- If you don't need a lot of space (A huge harddrive), you could invest in buying an SSD instead of an HDD.

SSDs are uber fast, extremely safe, and it's almost impossible to experience mechanical failure. HDDs are relatively slow, moderately safe, but they are prone to mechanical failure.

If you want to get an SSD, I'd recommend 120 GB
If you want to get an HDD, I'd recommend 320 GB - 500 GB (1 TB if you like HQ Movies)

When it comes to graphics, anything supporting DirectX 9 and 10 with at least 256 MB is great. I have 256 MB on my Graphics card, and it can handle Need For Speed full screen (1920x1080) with no lag and only 19% - 30% CPU

Getting 512 MB/1 GB is excellent :)

Since you're using it for gaming, I'd recommend at least 512 MB

Keyboard and Mouse: You can get some awesome Wireless ones if you have a huge supply of batteries/dry cells ;)

Monitor: 1920 x 1080 or more is great for gaming :) (WC3 is best with 1024x1024 though :p. Widescreen mode is so ugly for WC3 >.<)
 
Here are some tips:

- Make sure your processor has at least 2 cores (Intel Processors are great by the way)
- Get Windows 7 64-bit Ultimate (It's one of the 3 Windows 7 OS's that recognizes 2+ cores)
- If you get a 32-bit OS, don't get more than 4GB of RAM
- If you get a 64-bit OS, you should get 4GB-8GB RAM (or 16 GB, but honestly, you'd never utilize HALF of those 16 GB :p)
- If you don't need a lot of space (A huge harddrive), you could invest in buying an SSD instead of an HDD.

SSDs are uber fast, extremely safe, and it's almost impossible to experience mechanical failure. HDDs are relatively slow, moderately safe, but they are prone to mechanical failure.

If you want to get an SSD, I'd recommend 120 GB
If you want to get an HDD, I'd recommend 320 GB - 500 GB (1 TB if you like HQ Movies)

When it comes to graphics, anything supporting DirectX 9 and 10 with at least 256 MB is great. I have 256 MB on my Graphics card, and it can handle Need For Speed full screen (1920x1080) with no lag and only 19% - 30% CPU

Getting 512 MB/1 GB is excellent :)

Since you're using it for gaming, I'd recommend at least 512 MB

Keyboard and Mouse: You can get some awesome Wireless ones if you have a huge supply of batteries/dry cells ;)

Monitor: 1920 x 1080 or more is great for gaming :) (WC3 is best with 1024x1024 though :p. Widescreen mode is so ugly for WC3 >.<)

common knowlege...
i need suggestions..

I'm looking at Core i5/i7 Sandybridge
p67 motherboard
600w/750w PSU
SSD boot drive
1tb storage
8gb ram
Windows Ultimate 64bit
Nvidia GTX 570 / GTX 570 SLI ( x2 )
 

Dr Super Good

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I take it you mean Australian Dollars as you ask for Australian sites? It is important to know for people as an Australian Dollar I think is worth less than a USD which is what a lot of people will assume you mean.

Anyway, that is still a prety large budget.

I'm looking at Core i5/i7 Sandybridge
Both are good processor ranges. You will want a quad core, avoid any more cores (like hex core) if it comprimises clock rate because no games that I know of use such parralelisim of the CPU efficiently compared to higher clock rates. Keep in mind that some I7 models support more than dual channel memory (my older one supports tri channel for example). I7 models also have hyper threading which can make them more efficient, but still be aware that that feature mearly reduces wasted clock cycles to some degree and in turn does not beat more physical cores. If you want more bang for the buck, consider overclocking and if you plan to do so heavilly there are special models designed for overclocking (more flexible clock rates).

SSD boot drive
Next to making your computer boot slightly faster, this will not noticably improve gamming performance. Infact, this could be considered a large waste of money. If you want to game, rather spend that money on better graphic cards or CPU. Be aware that you are unable to use that drive for Virtual Memory unless you want it to ware out fast due to the limited write cycle nature of SSD technology.

Do make sure the individual sticks of RAM are optimized for your CPU memory controler. The I5 series usually supports dual channel while the I7 supports anywhere between dual channel to quad channel depending on model. Higher clockrates can improve CPU performance by meaning it is less I/O starved but the performance boost is usually minor due to pipeline technology used by CPUs.

Nvidia GTX 570 / GTX 570 SLI ( x2 )
Be aware that SLI does not boost performance linearly (althought that has improved substantially since the technology came out). This means you will not get double the performance over a single card for gaming tasks yet it will consume about double the power. If you are environmentally concious or are concerned about your electricity bill, consider a better single GPU as the performance for power used ratio is higher and the environmental burden of manufacture is lower. Ofcourse, for ultimate performance you will have to resort to multiple GPUs in SLI (or crossfire for AMD branded GPUs).

600w/750w PSU
Do make sure this is enough... I think the GPUs use about 150-200w each and the CPU will probably be about 100w and with all other devices like cooling and drives you are very close to 600w loading. There is some rule of thumb that you should get a PSU 25% over maximum power consumed by the computer or something along those lines atleast. This may be to prevent the PSU overheating, deal with peak current consumption or just to prevent components becomming power starved as the PSU ages.

Do not forget enough cooling. Especially if you live in Australia where tempratures can exceede 30 degrees celcius cooling is a major consideration. Nothing is worse than playing a game and haveing it crash due to some part of your system overheating. If you water cool, make sure the radiator used to cool the system will handle 600w easilly. If air cooling, make sure that your GPUs are well ventilated and avoid placing your system where little air circulation occurs. If air cooling, rememeber to remove dust from the heatsinks of the computer once or twice a year to keep the thermal resistance of the heatsinks down.
 
Thanks that helped alot, i might look at the gtx 580 then * Battlefield 3 *, i didn't know that about ram either and by channels do you mean DDR# or in MHZ clock speed ect. I was going to get a 80gb ssd from intel *310 for the p67 simulated solidstate drive by turning it into a giant cache.

Keep in mind i won't be just using this for gaming but also rendering and industrial design/school work * beleive it or not we use revvit, cad, inventer at school and the school computers can take upto 2 days to render * i will also be using it for programing * programing course coming up next week woooot *

Note: AUD > USD ( the tides have turned america xD )
 

Dr Super Good

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Channels are part of how the sticks are positioned on the motherboard. To take advantage of dual channel support for example you need to use multiple of 2 sticks and place them in matching ports. The motherboard should have guide lines for which ports can become a linked channel (pairs).
 
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I don't have the time to search for a build at the moment, but as DSG said, I'd go with bigger power. 800 should do very well, but anything lower than that I'd be careful.

Also as DSG said, one GPU > two. At least in my opinion. The only reason I'd use two is if I already had one and the same card went on a good sale and it was cheaper than buying a new one. If you're buying a new card anyways, just get a good single card. Also the more complicated the system, the more troubleshooting you'll wind up doing later, or during the build.
 
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common knowlege...
i need suggestions..

I'm looking at Core i5/i7 Sandybridge
p67 motherboard
600w/750w PSU
SSD boot drive
1tb storage
8gb ram
Windows Ultimate 64bit
Nvidia GTX 570 / GTX 570 SLI ( x2 )

I would wait for a bit. The ATI HD7000's are rolling out soon, and even if you dislike ATI, they will lower the prices on GPU's a good amount.





- Get Windows 7 64-bit Ultimate (It's one of the 3 Windows 7 OS's that recognizes 2+ cores)

I believe you are mistaking Home Premium and Below's inability to support more than a single Physical processor. All Windows 7 versions can handle multiple core processors.

Ultimate is basically useless anyways. The only real + is XP mode. Every other bonus feature can be done better by free 3rd party programs.


- If you don't need a lot of space (A huge harddrive), you could invest in buying an SSD instead of an HDD.

SSDs are uber fast, extremely safe, and it's almost impossible to experience mechanical failure. HDDs are relatively slow, moderately safe, but they are prone to mechanical failure.

How is an SSD safer than an HDD other than zero mechanical failures?


If you want to get an SSD, I'd recommend 120 GB
If you want to get an HDD, I'd recommend 320 GB - 500 GB (1 TB if you like HQ Movies)

We live in a world where 1TB HDD's are going for $50


When it comes to graphics, anything supporting DirectX 9 and 10 with at least 256 MB is great. I have 256 MB on my Graphics card, and it can handle Need For Speed full screen (1920x1080) with no lag and only 19% - 30% CPU

Getting 512 MB/1 GB is excellent :)

Since you're using it for gaming, I'd recommend at least 512 MB

Look at that budget. Now look at what you recommended. Also, Need For Speed games are not known to be graphically demanding.


Keyboard and Mouse: You can get some awesome Wireless ones if you have a huge supply of batteries/dry cells ;)

Yes, with slower response times and your control wigging out if you fire up a microwave.

Monitor: 1920 x 1080 or more is great for gaming :) (WC3 is best with 1024x1024 though :p. Widescreen mode is so ugly for WC3 >.<)

I believe you mean 4:3 ratio resolutions for Wc3.
 
Yes, with slower response times and your control wigging out if you fire up a microwave.

Sure cause I keep a microwave next to my computer :p

I believe you mean 4:3 ratio resolutions for Wc3

Idk. It looks squarish to me :p

Need For Speed games are not known to be graphically demanding.

It depends :p

We live in a world where 1TB HDD's are going for $50

Not in my country ;)
Anyways, 1 TB hard drives are redundant :p
500 GB is way more than enough :p

How is an SSD safer than an HDD other than zero mechanical failures?

That's pretty much the only way it's safer :p
If you don't need that much space, get an SSD.
If you like having lots of HQ videos/movies, get an HDD.
 

Dr Super Good

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Level 63
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Jan 18, 2005
Messages
27,180
How is an SSD safer than an HDD other than zero mechanical failures?
Not as suseptable to magnetic radiation in the case you brin the computer near a MRI machine or near a microwave generator. It also has a much larger opperating temeperature range before it becomes unreliable. Additionally you can expose it to larger forces before something breaks... oh wait the last 2 were mechanical failures.

We live in a world where 1TB HDD's are going for $50
You have to be careful of the performance and reliability of cheaper large drives. You can however get prety good ones rather cheaply though I do agree.

Monitor: 1920 x 1080 or more is great for gaming
There are more to displays that resolution and size. What about pixel response times? Refresh rate? Contrast? Ultimatly you want a display with high contrast ratio (better looking colours), low pixel response time (less blur between frames) and a high refresh rate (smoother images).

With 200 Hz refresh rate you can start looking at shutter glass 3D technologies, arguably one of the best ways to view 3D.

Remember your eyes can only perceive a certain resolution, so unless the display is massive, or your head is right infront of the display you will not benifit from high resolutions as much as you will from better refresh rate and contrast.

When it comes to graphics, anything supporting DirectX 9 and 10 with at least 256 MB is great. I have 256 MB on my Graphics card, and it can handle Need For Speed full screen (1920x1080) with no lag and only 19% - 30% CPU

Getting 512 MB/1 GB is excellent :)

Since you're using it for gaming, I'd recommend at least 512 MB
I am sorry, I did not realise that somehow you have been frozen in time for the last 3 odd years (this is a joke, please do not take seriously).

You will struggle finding a gaming graphic card nowdays which does not come with 1-2 GB of dedicated graphic memory, especially in his price range. Additionally all graphic cards are fully DX11 compatible, although I do agree some may have fewer teselation shader units than others. My 275 GTX has 7xx MB memory while my brothers 460 GTX has 1GB memory and these cards are multiple years old.

500 GB is way more than enough :p
Unless you do video works, such as recording game footage at 1080p. This is ignoring server applications as well as scientific data crunching ones.

If you don't need that much space, get an SSD.
You are aware that SSDs have a limited write duty? This means that you should avoid using them for virtual memory. You should always have a HDD which is used for all the write thrashing stuff like caches, virtual memory or constantly changing databases while a SSD should be used for more stable data like installed programs. Due to the explosion of RAM quantities (all serious computers have 4-8 GB atleast now), SSDs are even less useful as once data is loaded from a HDD it is cached in RAM meaning subsiquent requests at the data do not even physically load the I/O of a drive.

Sure cause I keep a microwave next to my computer :p
Gamers should always use wired devices. There is nothing worse than being in a game and suddenly you lose power. GG if the match was at all serious.
 
costs.png

good parts list?
 

Dr Super Good

Spell Reviewer
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Messages
27,180
I think that I7 model only supports dual channel opperation. Do make sure you can get the memory to run 2 of the sticks in dual channel mode. If you are lucky you might get flex mode enabled where it would map the lopsided memory channel to the least used memory address range.

Dual channel basically allows the CPU access to 2 memory reads at a time, 1 from each channel. It has problems if the channels are not of an equal capacity and if flex mode is possible it will have to map the unballenced capacity (remaining) into a single channel address space.
 

Dr Super Good

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For optimum consistant performance, yes. Maybe consider starting with 2*4GB with 1 stick in each channel. If you find you could benifit from more memory you could plonk another 2 sticks of memory in (any capacity, as long as both channels have the same capacity) at a later time.

The reason I suggest 2 of 4GB sticks over 4 of 3GB...
It is very difficult to use 8 GB of RAM currently, 4 more GB would probably add no noticable gain at all. That 8 GB can hold a modern game (2GB), a really good OS cache (1 GB), dozens of background programs (1 GB) and still have 4 GB left to cache commonly used data (more than enough for programs to run efficiently). Yes if you decided to delibertly use as much memory as possible you might start to run low on space left for cache but you would really have to use a lot of memory intensive programs.
The total power consumption should be lower. Yes the individual stick might use more but there are only half as many of them.
The performance gain from higher memory clockrates is very small and task specific, but still a definit gain unlike RAM quantity which relys on the off chance you will actually fill it all with data that must be accessed randomly. Investing that extra 4 GB into sticks with faster clock rates could give a general speed benifit, especially with memory thrashing tasks. Do make sure that the CPU and motherboard support RAM at higher clockrates as they can force the memory clock rates down if they do not.
 
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