[Defense / Survival] Biological game... need anatomy/physiology/medical experts

[Abelhawk]

I've been batting around the idea of having a Survival/Tower Defense map that's basically like this:

The map is the shape of an enormous human body. The object of the map is to protect the Brain (and the Heart) from being destroyed, which will kill you.

There are various organs and systems that you have to balance in order to keep the body "Healthy" and "Happy." Some organs, such as the eyes (which cast "Reveal" ) are expendable, while others make it a lot harder to manage your systems, and others, like the Heart, Lungs and Brain, will mean imminent death unless you get a transplant). The three systems are Circulatory (blood flow, which needs to be regulated to keep your organs and tissues functioning and regenerating health), Endocrine (The immune system that manufactures White Blood Cells that can attack infections, and glands that can cast Hormone abilities), and Digestive (the mouth generates 'caravans' of food that slowly move down the digestive tract. As it moves you must harvest as many Nutrients from it as possible before it is excreted).

Germs, bacteria, parasites and viruses try to attack, sometimes breaking through the walls of your skin and entering. There are also random events that can cause damage to health or happiness such as kidney stones, headaches, heart attacks, and other diseases. A big part of this game besides just defending from germs is little minigames that you have to attend to, such as extremely cold weather threatening certain limbs with frostbite.

Some buildings are Glands, which can cast Hormone abilities that can help you out for a cost in their respective energy. One example is Fever, which burns up all the germs in your body, at the cost of the health of your internal organs as well. There may be also things like Adrenaline Rush, which freezes your digestive system but makes all of your Endocrine buildings have full energy and makes your blood flow faster. The Brain can make "Decisions," which are basically external actions like taking medicine, buying transplants/surgery, or even exercising.

The two resources will probably be Nutrients and Vitamins, but I was also thinking that maybe instead of Vitamins it could just be money, which the Brain can use to make Decisions with. Perhaps the Happier you are, the more money you get over time because you're doing good at your job?

The object of the game is to die of old age, which means surviving all the biological dangers for, I dunno, an hour or something. As time goes on and you age, certain systems slow down and certain hormones are disabled, making it harder.

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So my question is, does anyone know a lot about physiology and biology to come up with a basic lowdown of what organs should be included? I'm trying to also think about how certain organs could specialize in different things. Suggestions for Hormone Abilities would be great as well, and especially just the mechanics of the game. I've made a rough outline of the map and a few test triggers, but this game is in the super rough stage, so any ideas are totally welcome!

 

[Metalbear]

Sounds fun, will check it definitely when you release the map! Sadly, I feel sick from so many TD maps, so gonna be fun to see it only ... and maybe play it for 1 time.

 

[sonofjay]

Wow, I can't believe that there is a TD map that can surprise me on its ideas. I wonder if you can pull this one out. Also try using google for research purposes it might help you.

 

[Abelhawk]

Thanks for the support! I've been using Wikipedia mostly, but it gets pretty complicated. I'm trying to find a site that explains them in the simplest terms possible.

Sadly, I feel sick from so many TD maps, so gonna be fun to see it only ... and maybe play it for 1 time.

I'm probably not going to make it as geared to tower defense. There will be few if any actual towers; it'll be more unit-on-unit defense. But I want to also focus more on the unique way the economy works as well as the random events.
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Here are a couple of questions anyone can help me on: Do you think that it'd be better to keep the map as "realistic" as possible? That is, making the buildings explode in blood when they die, etc., or should I make the game more symbolic, just giving the basic overall function of a body, but making things like the terrain just look more like a kingdom trying to protect itself from invaders?
Another example to illustrate this difference would be making the 'food' that goes down the throat simply wagons and packhorses, as opposed to making them actual food like moving Shimmerweed, stags, meat wagon projectiles, mushrooms, or even water elementals.

Obviously, it can't be really realistic, unless I imported actual models and textures, which would be gross and I don't want to do. So anyway, realistic or symbolic? Or somewhere in between?

 

[DZerpic]

Realistic is better, imho. It adds a lot to the uniqueness of the idea and, I think otherwise, it'd look like it's halfway done or made by a noob.

If it's possible to take it as close to reality as possible and as much as your skills allow, I think you should go for it. It may take more time, but it'd be well worth it.

 

[HesitationSnow]

Keeping tabs on this, sounds fun.

I can think of a few minigames that would be really epic to include, but not easy:
-Plants vs Zombies white blood cells vs bacteria/virus style.
-Surgery / Virus battle, Trauma Center style.
-Invasion of bacteria/virus, induce sneezing somehow to expel all and win.
-Blood: Oxygen Delivery: Go through bloodstream by Sliding (Maze?), dodge fat depositions else you get stuck and die.

Ok, so, I am not a fan of bio and it really gives me headache but I still find this really neat.
I'll give my basic ideas since I wanna see this game in action.

Endocrine System:

Liver/Kidneys: Filter the blood/white blood cells, healing them.
I would guess this is the healing fountain / hospital sort of thing.

Immune System:

Anatomic Response: physically prevents threatening substances from entering your body with mucous membranes and the skin (upgrade this for less enemies?)
Inflammatory Response: Sneezing out invaders, runny nose, fevers, etc.
I think this lowers the amount of enemies you receive or expels them.

Lymphatic System:

Filters out disease, produce white blood cells, generates disease fighting antibodies. Distributes fluids/nutrients, etc.
Sounds like regen/armor/attack auras to me.
Oh look, different types of white blood cells (soldiers) with their pros/cons/other stats: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_blood_cell.
I think this is the combat unit training and there is general support too.

Maybe Immune/Lymphatic are part of Endocrine, I dunno.

Circulatory System:

Respiratory: Lungs: Oxygen+Nutrients should be given thruout body thru bloodstream or passageways. I think Oxygen+Nutrients should be treated as Mana, which should be distributed to other organs, which will need mana to function.
I would guess this is the electricity part that runs your house.

Digestive System:

Break down food into protein, vitamins, minerals, carbohydrates, and fats, which the body needs for energy, growth, and repair.
Stomach: Uh.. Stomach could be the max food limit? Upgrade for more?
Intestines: I think these things suck up nutrients/glucose in food.
Anyways, income stuff / gold gain happens here I would guess.

To answer some of your questions:
I think Gold should be money so the brain can decide to buy stuff like medicine or shots/injections or surgeries or life support, etc.
As for realistic vs. symbolic, either way works, though you clearly lack the models needed for realism.
For realism, body needs a flesh-like color, but a lava tile is just dark and creepy and too lava-ey, don't know how you will work that out.
Though, I'll be content as long as the white blood cells aren't footies, and the human body isn't made out of grass =).

 

[neo_sluf]

Wikipedia is the best site for this one...i like the wikipedia....just expand your mind on understanding...goodluck with this TD!./..

 

[Abelhawk]

Thanks HesitationSnow! Those are good ideas. Although, the minigames probably won't be that elaborate, but those are pretty cool ideas for actual game mechanics.
I don't get how you mean on the digestive system... are you saying carbs, fats, vitamins and minerals will all be resources/items? I was just thinking that you get one resource from them, and then every once in awhile there may be junk food that makes you sick or something. Maybe the brain could make a Decision to go on a diet, which costs money and makes you have less food coming in, while at the same time making the chance of eating junk food 0%.
The other systems are pretty good for starters. I'll definitely think about how some of them work. One of my biggest problems is wondering how big the body is going to be, and where the germs are going to attack from. Are they just going to be constantly attacking the epidermis, or wall? That's not exactly what germs do, that's what injuries do. So I'm not sure if, say, the mouth or other orifices are where you need to defend most or what. And how will the body be set up? If the liver/kidneys heal the blood cells, will that be too realistic, i.e., sacrifice the gameplay for realism because it'd be hard to move the blood cells away from the infected areas there?
These are the things that are kind of hard to know for sure where to start on.

 

[fang__00]

this reminds the game i played long time ago;
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...beta-20b-99223/?prev=search=virus&d=list&r=20
it was pretty fun back then

but im sure the new one can be way better with all the available resources
looking forward to see it

 

[HesitationSnow]

Perhaps gold can be money for the brain to use and lumber can be nutrients/vitamins for body upgrades / training stuff =o, and stomach size could be food limit.

I like those ideas regarding junk food, going on diet, etc.
Well, attacks should come from several areas.
The standard being through mouth, nose, eyes.
Perhaps you ate something bad or touched something then rubbed ur nose/mouth/eyes.
(I may just barf if you spawned worms through the eyes http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091219060027AAye4TP)
I can imagine other things like ear infections, or bacteria depositing under nails, etc.
There are several other ways to get infections/bacteria entering, but it wouldn't really be appropriate.

To keep the game interesting, unexpected accidents will need to occur, like cuts and scrapes, very often. Bacteria should then enter through these areas, which should be able to occur almost anywhere. Furthermore, you can combat not only germs/bacteria, but things like tumors spawning and such should keep players busy.
Other things can be more vicious pathogens or external factors like red/blue wisps representing too cold/hot attacking skin cells, trying to enter through skin cell membranes (is this even possible, lmao?), ur human body could have loong but skinny units (like gate doodad pathing) for skin membranes, where pathogens try to enter from all sides, but this should be kept minimal, you simply just won't see a person's skin invaded and broken into unless they jumped into lava or pool of corrosives.

Hope you make possible settings for the player, they should be able to decide on the Name of the body (eg. Herbert), if body is male or female, health status of person (fat/fit/skinny/normal/built/healthy/etc), and if the person has any deficiencies (basically, difficulty settings).

I would love to see constant updated game messages like: Herbert just got clawed by a wild cat on his left arm! Watch out for infections!

As for realism, I'd say scratch the surface but don't worry about it. This idea is golden, you should just make what you feel like doing (I'm sure there will be some realism), not follow what will really happen or should happen. Don't try too hard to keep it realistic. Game just needs a disclaimer saying this is not an accurate representation, don't try learning biology from this =).

I can imagine 10000 ways this game can be hilariously entertaining with high replayability. Good luck!

As for game mechanics, you should figure that yourself.
You don't necessarily have to shape it after a TD, hero defense, survival, altered melee, etc, if you haven't already decided. Take my Minecraft wc3 game I'm working on for example, I have no idea what genre it will fall under, it's probably going to be a mix of semi-td, survival, hero defense, rpg.

I was thinking of postponing my MC map to help you on this, but you know what, it would be too embarrassing and shameful >.> (because it would make my 10th dropped map and I haven't a single map of my own yet). Plus people have started helping me on it already and I am personally motivated to work on it, I would feel like trash if I let the help go to waste xD.

As for where to start on, I would start by playing with terrain, find a suitable tileset (really, no clue here, dirt? a few crevices of lava, etc) I would then build the human body. I would say, go for verry large area. As for the center part I suggest creating a big circle of boundary - throw in perma floating text : Censored. It'd be better than a genderless, imo.

Then I would throw in basic organ units, Heart, Lungs, Brain, etc, and place them in respective parts of the body. Forget about models. If map is successful, the models will come to you.

Afterwards, work out gold/lumber, how the player gets income, make basic enemy germs and ally towers/white blood cells, begin fleshing out a spawn system, make a multiboard, core systems in place, etc etc.

Then work on the fun part, making the waves, game messages, events occuring, fun upgrades/ brain-functions.

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Enjoy the wall of text.

 

[Abelhawk]

These are all excellent ideas... I actually feel guilty for not getting right on this project. I'm adding this and that in my free time, but haven't had a chance to really buckle down and work on it.
I think my biggest issue is how should the body be set up? This is my rough start:

I'm still trying to figure out what would be a practical way for the germs to enter though... Should the head be to the side instead, so the germs can enter through the mouth? I was planning to do the random events thing about getting cut, etc., so I could maybe just randomize the walls falling down, so you have to 'build' scabs that will eventually heal into skin again.
I'm just trying to figure out what would be the best shape. I think I did the groin area rather tastefully. It just looks like the clinical "end" to the human digestive tract.

P.S. I know the trees look silly, but I was thinking as time went by they could turn into Lordaeron Winter trees (hair graying) and eventually falling apart or something. It was an interesting idea at least.

 

[jrhetf4xb]

Hahaha, this is one of the funniest maps I've seen. And I'm saying this in a good way.
Will definitely try it out if you ever finish it.

 

[BallisticTerrain]

Very unique idea. Looking forward to it.

 

[DZerpic]

Ooh! I just thought that maybe you could use lines of clumped up peons or wany worker walking from one side to the other to simulate blood flow on the arteries and veins!
You'd have to protect them too.

Btw, great idea. Looking forward to it!

 

[HesitationSnow]

Lmao that picture is hilarious. Goodwork, trees are smart . As for germs entering through mouth, you could spawn them on the fountain, set size to like 1%, give crow ability, and loop to increase size and height to simulate germs entering through mouth.

 

[Abelhawk]

I've tried to implement like three of the systems I had ideas for, but none of them work. So I'm losing my drive to do this map. Perhaps if someone had extensive knowledge of JASS or something they could program it better. Feel free to take my idea if you want.
I may get into it again someday, but right now I'm kind of bored with it. :/

 

[Silverfish423]

These are all excellent ideas... I actually feel guilty for not getting right on this project. I'm adding this and that in my free time, but haven't had a chance to really buckle down and work on it.
I think my biggest issue is how should the body be set up? This is my rough start:

I'm still trying to figure out what would be a practical way for the germs to enter though... Should the head be to the side instead, so the germs can enter through the mouth? I was planning to do the random events thing about getting cut, etc., so I could maybe just randomize the walls falling down, so you have to 'build' scabs that will eventually heal into skin again.
I'm just trying to figure out what would be the best shape. I think I did the groin area rather tastefully. It just looks like the clinical "end" to the human digestive tract.

P.S. I know the trees look silly, but I was thinking as time went by they could turn into Lordaeron Winter trees (hair graying) and eventually falling apart or something. It was an interesting idea at least.

I really like the idea of the germs entering random part of the bodies because of cuts and what not. Being able to predict what happens next is boring to me.

 

[sniper23]

any news ?

 

[Abelhawk]

I tried making a simple digestive system by making the food basically mobile gold mines that move down the digestive tract, but then the enzymes mine the "nutrients," and the food dies and it plays the "Our Gold Mine has collapsed!" sound effect. I was kind of banking on that to work, but it's really tacky. So I've basically lost my drive for now. If anyone else wants to team up on this, I might have some more passion for it, but I'm taking a break for now to think of a new system before I work any more on it.

 

[Pinzu]

Perhaps you could use enlarged bones, paged down as a ribb cage?

 

[Dr Super Good]

You might want to throw in some "fictional" illnesses just to give a feeling of light-heartedness. Players might suffer from a un-cureable illness and as such need something ammusing to not remind them of their own problems.

An example could be T-Virus from resident evil or Zerg infestation from StarCraft.

Obviously not all the time, but once every few sessions.