After The Frozen Throne...

[Masiah]

Well... I don't say that Blood Elves wouldn't be a nice race to have (Actually, their campaign in WC3 is my favorite) but it would be like a repetition of the Alliance.
Iron Dwarves are more a subrace of dwarves than a Clan... don't mix them up with the Dark Iron Dwarves... But more dwarves in game, the more I would like it.
And there is a loooooooong distance between Draenei and Eredar... They all started as the same race and culture, but the Eredar were corrupted by Sargeras and granted inmense power, which made them grew horns, turn into a red-purple colour and become real giants. If the Eredar come in as a new race, they would be actually the Burning Legion itself, as the Eredar are the commanders of it. (Archimonde and Kil'jaeden are Eredar, remember?)

 

[Hawkwing]

I understand what Iron Dwarves and Eredar are.. but if you are going to have a Sub-race of something you should have the Root-Race as well.

For the Blood Elves / Human repetition thing, you could simply replace the Elf units with Human units. In the project my team is developing we have created a Blood Elf race and it is nothing like the Humans.

 

[Masiah]

You do have a point, but we must not forget that we are discussing idead that may completely differ from what Blizzard plans to do with WC4 (if it plans to do anything at all). We may find us playing Qiraji campaign or something...

Anyways, what is the name of the project you mentioned? It's always interesting to play a new race.

 

[Hawkwing]

[Offtopic]It's the top thing in my signature. It's not done, though.[/offtopic]

I doubt it will be a Qiraj Campaign but how knows what Blizzard is up to.

 

[punwisp]

Not all Blood Elves are aligned with Illidan. In fact, I believe the majority or aligned with the Horde. The Draenei are part of the Alliance, and are in no way allied to Illidan. I believe you are refering to the Lost Ones? The Fel Orcs have already been implemented as a race made within another "prime" race. The Naga also have already been implemented, though they are not playable in Melee maps.

Draenei and Blood Elves are a must for the new possible races, if they added new ones.

lost ones are dreanei my friend, the dreanei unaffected by outlands drastic change were mostly casted out and call the lost ones, but they are still dreanai.
And actually majourity of the blood elves went with there prince. afterall he is there prince, and they are magic hungry. Infact the blood elves that werent with kael were still hiding in the city or just strays which enough got together to start living again. Most however went with kael. Ignore wow on lore, they are so retarded its not even funny, they can't say ther blood elves were NEARLT EXTINCT which means theres only a few left, yet theres THOUSANDS left. If your read the lore and look at WoW, your expression would be "WTF?" there "should" maybe only be a couple hundred possibly to be realistic that didnt go with kael, infact there should only have been more the a battalion of blood elves left from scourge invasion in the first place... Anyway most went with kael. Blizz just made it look like thousands were still around on zeroth and went to join the horde.

And actually fel orcs isnt its own race really. Fel orcs are exact duplicates of normal orcs, only with less sound sets/ there red/ chaos damaga, and increased damage. Thats it, same buildings and all.

Naga sure, it's its own race, but hey humans, dwarves, blood elves etc are there own race, yet they have mixed units. Why cant there be a illidians faction with mixed units?

 

[anetherond]

O
And actually majourity of the blood elves went with there prince. afterall he is there prince, and they are magic hungry. Infact the blood elves that werent with kael were still hiding in the city or just strays which enough got together to start living again. Most however went with kael. Ignore wow on lore, they are so retarded its not even funny, they can't say ther blood elves were NEARLT EXTINCT which means theres only a few left, yet theres THOUSANDS left. If your read the lore and look at WoW, your expression would be "WTF?" there "should" maybe only be a couple hundred possibly to be realistic that didnt go with kael, infact there should only have been more the a battalion of blood elves left from scourge invasion in the first place... Anyway most went with kael. Blizz just made it look like thousands were still around on zeroth and went to join the horde.

I disagree, Blizzard did no mistake on this matter. Let me make the calculation:

We do know that something like 90% of the population was eradicated during the Scourge invasion to Quel'thalas. But we also know that the Quel'dorei were a vast race. Let's say, if Stormwind populates today 200,000 people, entire Quel'thalas should had at-least contained twice of that. So, 90% destroyed: means there are still around 40,000 survivors. If we cut the thin numbers that didn't join Kael'thas's new order: we still have around 35,000-30,000 Blood Elves (I mean, 10000-5000 high elves from the ones who were in Quel'thalas. There were also few in Dalaran and other areas that almost certainty have joined the alliance as High Elves). If 80% left with Kael'thas to Outland, there would be still something around 7000-6000 left in Azeroth.

Important to note that this number is the minimal possibility since I believe Quel'thalas had populated more than 400,000 people.

 

[Masiah]

lost ones are dreanei my friend, the dreanei unaffected by outlands drastic change were mostly casted out and call the lost ones, but they are still dreanai.

You got it all mixed up. Draenei are Eredar, the first race to be corrupted by Sargeras to create the Burning Legion. Initially, there were 3 leaders of the Eredar: Archimonde, Kil'jeaden and Velen, who were offered great power by the Fallen Titan in exchange of their obedience. Archimonde and Kil'jeaden accepted, but Velen had a vision which showed his people transformed into evil demons, corruptors and destroyers. Velen reunited a small group of Eredar and fled his planet, renaming his small group "Draenei" or exiled in Eredun. The rest of the Eredar accepted the power, becoming the first members of the Legion, and Archimonde and Kil'jeaden became Sargeras' generals.
The Dreanei fled through the galaxy for ages, untill they met the Naaru, divine beings of pure light, which helped them to hide in Draenor, the former world of the orcs. There they lived peacefully with the orcs, learning the teachings of the Light from the Naaru, untill Sargeras found them, corrupted the orcs and the war begun... Which lead to the First and Second War. After the opening of the portals by Ner'zhul, which broke Draenor into pieces. The amount of arcane energies which were used to open the portals affected some of the draenei, transforming them into Broken, degenerated Draenei which had lost contact with the Light. Some were affected in such measure, that they degenerated even further into the so called "Lost Ones", pitifull creatures with nearly animal behaviour, a shadow of the past glory of the arcane power of the Eredar or the faith of the Draenei.

And I agree with Anetherond about the elves.

 

[anetherond]

You got it all mixed up. Draenei are Eredar, the first race to be corrupted by Sargeras to create the Burning Legion. Initially, there were 3 leaders of the Eredar: Archimonde, Kil'jeaden and Velen, who were offered great power by the Fallen Titan in exchange of their obedience. Archimonde and Kil'jeaden accepted, but Velen had a vision which showed his people transformed into evil demons, corruptors and destroyers. Velen reunited a small group of Eredar and fled his planet, renaming his small group "Draenei" or exiled in Eredun. The rest of the Eredar accepted the power, becoming the first members of the Legion, and Archimonde and Kil'jeaden became Sargeras' generals.
The Dreanei fled through the galaxy for ages, untill they met the Naaru, divine beings of pure light, which helped them to hide in Draenor, the former world of the orcs. There they lived peacefully with the orcs, learning the teachings of the Light from the Naaru, untill Sargeras found them, corrupted the orcs and the war begun... Which lead to the First and Second War. After the opening of the portals by Ner'zhul, which broke Draenor into pieces. The amount of arcane energies which were used to open the portals affected some of the draenei, transforming them into Broken, degenerated Draenei which had lost contact with the Light. Some were affected in such measure, that they degenerated even further into the so called "Lost Ones", pitifull creatures with nearly animal behaviour, a shadow of the past glory of the arcane power of the Eredar or the faith of the Draenei.

There are few lacks I would like to fix in order to prevent future mistakes:

Sargeras released all the demons he had imprisoned when he lost his sanity and by that created the Legion, so it is unlikely that the Eredar were the first to join the Legion. They are probably not the first race to be corrupted by Sargeras either, as the Legion probably conquered few worlds before Sargeras had noticed Argus.

I think that it is incorrect to refer to Warcraft's cosmos like we refer to ours; there are few slight differences but I will not get into it. The point is, that the Draenei didn't meet the Naaru during their journey in The Beyond; Velen contacted K'ure when he was still on Argus and met him personally during his escape (K'ure helped him).

It is most likely that the Draenei learned the secrets of the light before their arrival to Draenor, as they spent almost 25,000 years with the Naaru.

Draenor wasn't the first plane the Draenei had colonized. There were probably hundreds of planes that the Draenei reached and few dozens that they had tried to settled in.

Also, Sargeras didn't corrupt the Orcs; he was already within Aegwynn/Medivh during that time. Kil'jaeden and Mannoroth did it.


Besides that everything looks fine…

 

[Masiah]

You may be right, but this story is continuesly changed by Blizzard... or fans who rewrite Wowwiki. As I knew, Sargeras was corrupted by the Nazthreim, and then he decided to create an army to destroy the Universe... And he was attracted to Argus by the great affinity to magic of the Eredar, which became the leaders of the Legion.
About Velen and K'ure, it was the vision to which I reffered before, but as I understand, they took some time to actualy meet the Naaru. (I am not sure about that)
About the similarities of our Universe and the Great Nether in WC, the structure is the same: sistems, planets, galaxies, etc but the Great Nether is full of "rivers" of arcane power (which can be observed in the sky of Outland) through which mages can travel with portals. But you can still travel through the Great Nether with some kind of spaceship (Like the Exodar)... This caused an outrage between WC, but anywas...
It's like comparing the map of Azeroth with a map or the Earth: Similar, but different.

 

[anetherond]

I don't base my arguments on fans who rewrite Wowwiki; it is foolish to my opinion. I base my knowledge on Books, official sorties, Novels, Wow, Warcraft 1,2,3 and the offical RPG only.

Blizzard doesn't change the story, they add to it.
True, they did few mistakes in the past and accidentally changed it a little bit (Metzen even apologized few times for that) but nothing drastic or too consistent.
And to my opinion, they have almost always come with better ideas when they do that.

Sargeras was corrupted by the Nathrezim, and he was attracted to Argus by reasons you mentioned and few more. But it is unlikely that the eredar were the first race to join him, nor to be the first corrupted by his power. Please, read lines 2-4 in my last post again for the explanation.

According to Rise of the Horde, which is an official novel, the Eredar whom escaped met with the Naaru in person immediately after their escape from Argus (they escaped with the Naaru dimensional ship, and the Naaru were within…)

There are no galaxies, systems and plants (Not actual plants but rather "planes".) in Warcraft.
There are two chapters in "Shadow and Light" which refers to this subject. If you like, I could summarize it for you and post it here.

The Dimensional ship exact way of travel is unknown (We don't know if it's float like a normal ship, teleports or transport itself in other ways). And as long as it remains a speculation you cannot determine if it is outrageous or not.

Actually, the fact we can actually see "plants" in Outlands's sky is another lore sacrifice made by Blizzard in order to improve the gameplay element of Wow (This, for example, something Blizzard have changed knowingly and to some it seems as a good change, and to others it seems as a bad one.) .

 

[Masiah]

I do not have the right nor the knowledge to contradict you, because I have not read any of the books based on WC, so I suppose I will have to agree with you.

 

[Steel_Stallion]

Guys, i know we're all wishing it. But face the facts. Wc4 is not coming. A prequal, perhaps. But they arent continuing the Warcraft universe in the same game.

Same as Halo. They arent making a Halo 4. But they are making games based on the same universe.

 

[anetherond]

Guys, i know we're all wishing it. But face the facts. Wc4 is not coming. A prequal, perhaps. But they arent continuing the Warcraft universe in the same game.

Same as Halo. They arent making a Halo 4. But they are making games based on the same universe.

I didn't wish for it. I would be more happy if people will keep experimenting with the possibilities than Blizzard releasing another Warcraft.

 

[HappyTauren]

Wc4 is not coming. A prequal, perhaps. But they arent continuing the Warcraft universe in the same game.

read. brad's. post. NOW.

 

[Masiah]

I didn't wish for it. I would be more happy if people will keep experimenting with the possibilities than Blizzard releasing another Warcraft.

Same... It is entertaining and maybe someday a Blizzard employee comes around this forum, reads all those ideas and says: "WOW, SUCH GOOD IDEAS!!! LET'S MAKE WARCRAFT 4 WITH THEM!!!" And then we would be indeed happy. Untill then, let's have faith...

 

[anetherond]

Same... It is entertaining and maybe someday a Blizzard employee comes around this forum, reads all those ideas and says: "WOW, SUCH GOOD IDEAS!!! LET'S MAKE WARCRAFT 4 WITH THEM!!!" And then we would be indeed happy. Untill then, let's have faith...

Let's don't flatter ourselves too much... It's just fun.

 

[Masiah]

That was not my intention...

 

[Hawkwing]

This thread is another one of those "what if?" threads. Who cares if it wont come out, if it did, though, what would happen?

 

[The_wand_mirror]

Euh? If it came out we would have a Warcraft running on DirectX 10 =D

read. brad's. post. NOW.

What post?

 

[lolphin]

Well of course Wc4 would focus on gnolls. I mean, look, all the signs point to that. All the neutral passive creep buildings used the gnoll hut icon, but the gnoll buildings are missing from WoW. They're obviously planning to shock us with their new gnoll civilization.

 

[Hawkwing]

I'm sure... Having different styled huts dosen't mean they are planning something... That is seriously the stupidest thing ever. What is next? Rise of the Nightsabers?

 

[Masiah]

And... Why not the "Charge of Gnolls mounted on Nightsabers" which build huts all around the world?

 

[HappyTauren]

"Rise of the Nightsabers?"
That will be wow expansion after wotlk. Since the lich king will be dead, a natural force would come to the throne of the world... nightsabers.. and Crab people ...Crab people ...Crab people ...Crab people ...Crab people ...

 

[lolphin]

I'm sure... Having different styled huts dosen't mean they are planning something... That is seriously the stupidest thing ever. What is next? Rise of the Nightsabers?

Well of course they'll ride on couatl, which are also notably absent from WoW.

Nightsabers will be a neutral rep faction. I know, at first it sounds a little strange, but hey, Wintersabers are already a rep faction.

 

[Hawkwing]

That has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Stop trying to make us laugh. You are only making us want to neg rep you.

 

[Steel_Stallion]

Blizzard are such geniuses. Lets kill off every major character in the warcraft universe and destroy any possiblity of making another game based on the same storyline just to make basement nerds feel special.

God damn it.

 

[X.e.r.e.X]

If they ever do WC4 I think it wil lcontinue from where WC3 ended and not from WoW's crap lore... like 25 random dudes go kill Illidan my ass >_>

 

[anetherond]

That has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Stop trying to make us laugh. You are only making us want to neg rep you.

"Us"? Now you are the authority on this site? Speak for yourself and stop threat people. The things you said earlier are no better and no one attacked you like this.
Actually, I am going to +rep him now.

+rep

 

[The_wand_mirror]

Yeah! Lets hope there will be gnolls riding coatls with footmen armor and necromancer wands and spells of a priest!

Wouldn't surprise me if they did because they are very confused already >.>

Rofl.

 

[Hawkwing]

Im not going to neg rep him, that would be just stupid. But It sure hell isn't making me laugh. Like, it's fine if he goes off-topic for one post but just continuously.. Nah..

Anyways.. I wonder what Battle.Net would be like in Wc4.

 

[HappyTauren]

You CAN'T neg rep.

 

[Hawkwing]

I know. Now let's just drop it, I was just trying to get the point over that the whole Gnolls on Nightsabers thing is off-topic, and stupid.

 

[punwisp]

You got it all mixed up. Draenei are Eredar, the first race to be corrupted by Sargeras to create the Burning Legion. Initially, there were 3 leaders of the Eredar: Archimonde, Kil'jeaden and Velen, who were offered great power by the Fallen Titan in exchange of their obedience. Archimonde and Kil'jeaden accepted, but Velen had a vision which showed his people transformed into evil demons, corruptors and destroyers. Velen reunited a small group of Eredar and fled his planet, renaming his small group "Draenei" or exiled in Eredun. The rest of the Eredar accepted the power, becoming the first members of the Legion, and Archimonde and Kil'jeaden became Sargeras' generals. The Dreanei fled through the galaxy for ages, untill they met the Naaru, divine beings of pure light, which helped them to hide in Draenor, the former world of the orcs. There they lived peacefully with the orcs, learning the teachings of the Light from the Naaru, untill Sargeras found them, corrupted the orcs and the war begun... Which lead to the First and Second War. After the opening of the portals by Ner'zhul, which broke Draenor into pieces. The amount of arcane energies which were used to open the portals affected some of the draenei, transforming them into Broken, degenerated Draenei which had lost contact with the Light. Some were affected in such measure, that they degenerated even further into the so called "Lost Ones", pitifull creatures with nearly animal behaviour, a shadow of the past glory of the arcane power of the Eredar or the faith of the Draenei.

And I agree with Anetherond about the elves.

Didn't have to type all that, including sense I've read the book "rise of the horde" about a half dozen times, I already knew that information

Also I made a few typos in my post... Draenei are ereder, broken are draenei, lost ones are dreanei. You can't say they arn't, its like saying(Not being racist) a white man is human and a african american isn't... There still human.
To be technical, there all ereder, after most of the ereder were transformed into man'ari, the ones who followed velen were called Draenei, which i think means exiled ones, i can't remember offhand. Anyway after what ner'zhul did the dreanor, some of the draenei that were at first "exiled" sense they lost there ability to contact the holy light(the broken) were the ones who changed drastically.

Later one one of the broken ones(forget his name) became a shaman, a common orc class(simple way to put it) and later after that, velen allowed/brought most of the broken one into there community(simple way to put it) However, those who have trully lost there minds, and had more of animal behaviors and less intelligence became the "lost ones" which were the ones illidan accepted into his ranks(like akama)

Anyway, Wow contridicts the lore, THink it was kael that said they were nearly extinct, 40,000 is NOT nearly extinct. Nearly extinct would mean around 200-600 BE left. also I would like to point out all the high elves were called blood elves to honor those who died in Quel'thalas, they were no longer high elves.

 

[anetherond]

Didn't have to type all that, including sense I've read the book "rise of the horde" about a half dozen times, I already knew that information

Also I made a few typos in my post... Draenei are ereder, broken are draenei, lost ones are dreanei. You can't say they arn't, its like saying(Not being racist) a white man is human and a african american isn't... There still human.
To be technical, there all ereder, after most of the ereder were transformed into man'ari, the ones who followed velen were called Draenei, which i think means exiled ones, i can't remember offhand. Anyway after what ner'zhul did the dreanor, some of the draenei that were at first "exiled" sense they lost there ability to contact the holy light(the broken) were the ones who changed drastically.

Later one one of the broken ones(forget his name) became a shaman, a common orc class(simple way to put it) and later after that, velen allowed/brought most of the broken one into there community(simple way to put it) However, those who have trully lost there minds, and had more of animal behaviors and less intelligence became the "lost ones" which were the ones illidan accepted into his ranks(like akama)

Anyway, Wow contridicts the lore, THink it was kael that said they were nearly extinct, 40,000 is NOT nearly extinct. Nearly extinct would mean around 200-600 BE left. also I would like to point out all the high elves were called blood elves to honor those who died in Quel'thalas, they were no longer high elves.

Akama and his Ashtongue aren't Lost One; they are in full aware to their actions and kept their form as Broken (You can't say they are unintelligence, you can't say they behave like animals… You just can't…).
Perhaps their models in WC3 are the cause to your confusion, since they are similar to the Lost One models in WOW. But it is not longer that way.

Without basing myself on WOW I have proven to you that the Elves are not extinct, so how can WOW contradict the lore? If you want me to prove myself on more "official" sources (Still not related to wow), I could do that gladly.

I believe Kael'thas used the word "extinct" only to show how damaged and desperate their race is, and not the other meaning of the word.

Kael'thas renamed their race Blood Elves in honor of their fallen kin, true.
But The Blood elves have developed a troublesome nature, which seem wrong to few of the Elves. It was no longer a name for only honor of the dead.
Also, though Kael'thas has broken up from the Alliance, few High Elves still felt committed to the Alliance and have decided to keep their allegiance to it.

From those reasons, and few other more, these Elves left Kael'thas's new order and joined the Alliance as High Elves (Let me put it this way: if you call a High Elf "Blood Elf", it will be considered as a disgrace to him)

"Few high elves still exist, and I grow increasingly concerned that what the high elves were, they have lost — and they’ll never be again. Those we can still call “high elves” are wise, at least, and do not attempt to embrace their so-called heritage and join the blood elves."

-Brann Bronzebeard.

 

[Invert]

Blizzard is in it for the money not to preserve the lore from warcraft III. They will want to make a warcraft IV that will attract the mass WoW member community that pays monthly to play a pointless game. Why should they worry about a few thousand who offer no profit for sticking with warcraft III. Still that is only my opinion on the topic

Also what the hell is with WoW. I played it all for about a hour then tossed it out. Why is there a Horde vs Alliance and why are the faction so messed up? From my understanding at the end of WCIII Thrall allied with Jaina and the Night Elves. I was lost also in why the horde contains blood elves and undead. Not to mention this new expansion will probably allow everyone to carry frostmourne around and call themselves the lich king.