[lore] How would YOU have continued the story after TFT?

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(if there's already a thread similar to this, please forgive me)

Loremasters, lore apprentices and everything in-between, I call upon thee.

I might have brainstormed this way too much, but I still can't find a good way to answer the question "how could the story of Warcraft continued after the end of The Frozen Throne?"

Of course, this question came to my mind soon after finishing TFT, and was answered by Blizzard itself first in the RPG books (let's not forget about those!) and then in WoW.

BUT, let's ignore those for a moment. What I'm looking for here is a solid alternative.

Which I find extremely difficult to come up with, as the ending of TFT poses some serious "impasse" situations:

- Illidan is defeated, severely wounded, can't stay in Azeroth because the Scourge is going to hunt him down, and Kil'jaeden is probably going after him to kill him or worse for not being able to destroy the Lich King
- Ner'zhul won it all, he got the body he needed to escape the Frozen Throne and Kil'jaeden's control, he can now match Kil'jaeden (his main enemy) as he has immense power, a movable body and the Scourge backing him up. HOWEVER, we know next to nothing to what Ner'zhul goal & motivations might now be - I mean, his main goal during Warcraft 3 (as was explicitly stated in the Manual, even) was to get a body so he could get freedom from the Frozen Throne and from Kil'jaeden. Nothing more.
- with Archimonde dead, the Legion defeated and in turmoil, Kil'jaeden is the only demon lord left that poses a serious threat to Azeroth; however, since he also lost control of the Scourge, which is now his main enemy, and considering that the Horde and the Alliance are at peace, and Ner'zhul doesn't have any reason to seek world domination, what is going to be the conflict that sets the story in motion?
- the Naga were revealed, apparently sent scouting and/or invading forces both in the North and South of Kalimdor, but were utterly defeated every time. What could they be doing next, considering that their first step after ten thousand years of planning world domination basically failed?


So, taking these points into account, how would you have continued the story after TFT?
 
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I doubt the alliances made would last forever. My best guess is this.

With the legion out of the way, the Horde and Alliance would both be trying to deal with the ever-growing Scourge. If they aren't able to do that, tensions may rise. Alliances may crumble. Groups may splinter off. Perhaps the various factions would be under new leadership during WC4. Players may focus on keeping alliances together, or gathering up an army of Champions to address the problem of the Lich King, once and for all.

Beyond that, there would likely be signs of Legion activity. Agents of the Legion focusing on sewing dissent, causing various groups to turn on eachother, and wipe eachother out.

I'd guess that in the end, during a final cinematic, we'd see the fruits of the Legion's labour. Perhaps something like the planting of a corrupted World Tree, and/or something that would act as a massive portal. Perhaps meant for Sargeras himself, and his own, personal army to step through.

Of course, that would all just be a sequel hook.
 
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Mmmmh those are some interesting ideas. I agree with you upon the fact that those alliances are shaky at best, and working to keep them together would be an interesting plot point (although I wonder how could you implement that in-game in an interesting way)

However, I still find some problems that I believe needs to be addressed if we want to build a complete and good lore.
Like:
-what are the roles of Illidan, the blood elves, and the naga in all of this? You can't leave them out of the big picture, otherwise plot holes will happen, or things like "Illidan was just waiting for things to happen" which are kind of silly

-what's the main motivation for Alliance, Horde and Night Elves to go after the Scourge? I mean, the "if we don't defeat them now, they'll destroy us later" springs to mind, but is that enough for factions who are still recovering from an invasion from the Legion and from Jaina's dad, to go to war against what seems to be the currently most strong faction in the world? Sounds more like a suicide attack than a heroic mission.
And why would Ner'zhul even want to answer their attack? His main enemy is Kil'jaeden and the Legion, the others would just be nuisances or obstacles to him.

- while I agree that the Legion still has a role to play, considering that Kil'jaeden is still out there and the possibility of Sargeras coming back in an epic fashion would be pure gold, I don't think they should be the major source of the conflict, because then it would be RoC all over again.
The whole point of the RoC storyline was that the Horde, Alliance and Night Elves had to get past their differences and come together to save the world and save themselves from annihilation. Making those alliances crumble to bits without a very important reason, and making the Legion invade once more, it just keeps sounding silly to me

Perhaps the various factions would be under new leadership during WC4.

I really really like this idea! It would bring something fresh to each faction and to relations between factions, considering how much of the peace between Horde and Alliance is tied to Thrall and Jaina, for example. It could very well fuel the story's progress.
 
My general idea is that the Lich King would want to bolster his forces, focus on his goal of an undead world. Feeling more confident in his power, if the entirety of Azeroth were under his control.

This kind of thing would most likely take a long time to resolve. To that end, in WC4, we may see an elderly Thrall and/or Jaina. Cairne, deceased. Perhaps, Warchief Baine Bloodhoof?

The stresses of war would likely be crushing the Alliance and the Horde. Think about it. Every time a group is forced into a corner, somebody buckles. Someone runs, or tries to switch sides. Somebody hides, and could very well kill their comrades due to their cowardice overtaking them.

Even after the defeat of Archimonde, I'd expect the orcs and humans to be close-to at eachothers throats, the moment things start going wrong.


As far as Illidan goes, I get the feeling he'd be keeping tabs on Azeroth. Being well aware of the goings on there.
He was defeated once by Arthas, and now, he's merged with Ner'Zhul. His power is at its maximum, and his forces have grown exponentially. Just aswell, scattered, lone agents, or small groups of Legion saboteurs would likely be working in the shadows, for a far more sudden, and hopefully effective attack on Azeroth in the future.

To me, that storyline leads to one catalytic character, gathering champions from all races and factions available, to lead the charge to Northrend. To destroy the Lich King once and for all. With the Lich King out of the way, I assume then Illidan would make his move.


But aside from all that, I'd still say some sort of 'fel' world tree would be the best bet for the Legion. That whole premise could lead to Illidan and his forces, aswell as the newly reunited Horde, Alliance, and possibly Forsaken, facing off against Sargeras and Kil'Jaedan later down the road.
 
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I see what you mean.

My only problem with this idea lies here

My general idea is that the Lich King would want to bolster his forces, focus on his goal of an undead world. Feeling more confident in his power, if the entirety of Azeroth were under his control.

why would Ner'zhul want that? turn the whole world into undead, fine, but for what? I mean, doing it for self-confidence doesn't sound like a very strong motivation. (like "well, I've turned the whole world into my undead world. Now what do I do with it? what's my next move?")
(also, note that Ner'zhul may want to leave the orcs alone, considering how much he believed in leading his people to glory and prosperity and all that during his entire life)

still, why would Ner'zhul attack everybody instead of trying to ally everybody against the Legion? (I mean, he would probably get refused anyway, but he would still want to warn them or help them nonethelessly)

also: what are Azshara & her naga still on Azeroth doing in all of this?

lastly, just a curiosity of mine: how do you think the various factions could be able to learn what happened at the Frozen Throne and in Lordaeron? (I'm probably thinking this because of how much importance are raven communications in Game of Thrones, but still, I wonder what could exist in Azeroth as a communication network. A reliable communication network)
 
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For one thing. Ego. Evil doesn't always make sense. Consider Arthas on his way out of the Capital City in TFT. He considers zombies, ghouls, abominations, whathaveyou, to be his citizens. His army. His comrades.

Given all the power of a merged Lich King, I'd assume they'd want to dominate the world, and to do that, they would need to extend their control to every living being. Meaning the death of every living being.


Seems to me, you're really off base with the characterization of the Lich King. A character like that would be most confident in their ability to repel an enemy like the that of the Legion, if they knew that all the forces on their side, were directly under their control. I've stated that point before.
 
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Janie would have to play a more important role. thought the whole of the frozen throne she followed the frost king around like a love sick puppy. she is probably probably the only female role who wasn't played very well, but, she is also the only human and unfortunately she didn't do a very good job.

she is in charge of all the humans now at this point, of all the kingdoms, so she should at least now have the power to do something prominent to the history of warcraft.

cleans the world of the scourge.
rediscover lost arts of magic long since thought forgotten.
create a new race of water summons
end world hunger by turning prisoners into sheep and eating them before the polymorphic spell wears off
 
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how do you think the various factions could be able to learn what happened at the Frozen Throne and in Lordaeron?
Realistically, they wouldn't learn of that easily because the main factions had no men present to the event, and the ones that were there and survived fled to another planet so they'd have a hard time communicating what they know.

However you have many possible methods of having the news spread if you want it to:

- Some direct surivor escapes by boat and tells his tale, or sure sends his raven.
- Some still living inhabitants of northrend escape before the expanding scourge and tell their tale of the lich king living in the body of his champion.
- Some travelers to Northrend heard a tale of the lich king walking among his hordes of undead, and indirectly convey the information by spreading the rumor.
- There is some indipendent entity that watched the events unfold from afar and decides to inform various leaders of the impeding chrisis (like the Prophet/Medivh)
- Some major character "senses" the lich king's awakening. Being given visions or prophecies also works.
- The news is blatantly given for granted by the storyteller without explaining how it became known: "As you all know, gentlemen, the lich king..."
- (And many more ways that I don't have realized yet. )
 
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I'm curious to see wich races would be belonging to each faction, maybe the forsakens would make their own faction?, and the Night elves making their own faction too without them allying with the alliance, also did anyone actually knows that Ner'zhul is a part of the lich king, beside the scourge forces and the burning legion? maybe thrall could be interested on that :p
 
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Jaina would have to play a more important role. thought the whole of the frozen throne she followed the frost king around like a love sick puppy. she is probably the only female role who wasn't played very well, but, she is also the only human and unfortunately she didn't do a very good job.

Agree. Especially if you consider how her position would be contested by many among the Alliance, after she helped the orcs kill her own father. She would have to seize and maintain control over the Alliance more actively, she would have to make important choices and deal with the consequences, in particular when choosing between keep the peace with the orcs or keep positive relations between Theramore and Stormwind, Theramore and the dwarves, etc. I also imagine she would have a role to play in establishing a new order of wizards or reforming the Kirin Tor or even her going to Kul Tiras, there are lots of possibilities for her character to grow.

end world hunger by turning prisoners into sheep and eating them before the polymorphic spell wears off

...yeah maybe not that xD


However you have many possible methods of having the news spread if you want it to:

True. It's a rich fantasy world, you can have lots of ways. In fact, some of those where even established for each faction (Night Elves using owls, runners, and druids of the talon in raven form; orcs using wyverns (which are sentient!) and visions; etc.) I wonder though, which method would make great storytelling: like Thrall using shamanic powers to link with Ner'zhul, or Brann going to Northrend looking for Muradin and finding the armies of the dead marching, or Sylvanas feeling the Lich King's call once more...the possibilities are endless, but which is the best one in terms of impact and storytelling?


I'm curious to see which races would be belonging to each faction, maybe the forsakens would make his own faction?, the Night elves making their own faction without the allying with the alliance, also did anyone actually knows that the ner'zhul is a part of the lich king, beside the scourge forces and the burning legion? maybe thrall could be interested on that :p


Yes! There would be more factions, even within the same race, and that would mean having to find a balance between having to deal with important faction splinters and having to follow too many conflicts. The division of the undead between Forsaken and Scourge, for example, is important, as that would be the major conflict in Lordaeron. But the Watchers would probably join the rest of Night Elf society, giving them new units and new roles. Giving each single race/species/organization its own faction would be too much, and resolving conflicts with peaceful unions can be an option.

I personally think Ner'zhul is and should always be part of the Lich King in every possible scenario; in fact, he ought to be the one in control (Arthas' personality may blend in, but remember, Arthas' soul is still inside Frostmourne under Ner'zhul tight control). That's why I find it so difficult to think of what the Lich King's next move would be: we really don't know what Ner'zhul would want, and while he does have a big ego and power, I think he would be too smart and wise to just go for world domination, which sounds way too one-dimensional for him. But that's just my opinion.

Thrall could very well interact with Ner'zhul. Both wanted to save the orcs from Kil'jaeden and the Legion's control, and Thrall fully succeeded. That's why I think Ner'zhul wouldn't be hostile to Thrall and the orcs, and they may even find some common ground. Ner'zhul was a shaman after all, and Thrall's major point in rebuilding the Horde was recovering the orcs' shamanic traditions.
 
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I played wc2 for about 5 or 6 years, and wc3 for the past 15 years and I have never been much into the lore of WarCraft, but I do enjoy certain aspects of it more to do so with the origins of the game, like its ties to Warhammer and lotr/or d&d.

I always knew the story of the human ending of wc1 being "non-cannon" the dark portal was never destroyed, the orcs return during the tides of war, and then... then wc3 came along and split the 2 factions. Some where along the lines I heard of a story about an orc being captured by the humans but then ending up being like a good person or whatever. Not sure if that was actually part of wc2 or just an unfinished idea blizzard had, but I guess that became the character of thrall? funny how I know so little about warcrafts lore despite playing it for 20+ years, and I have finished both wc3 campaigns several times, I know the story of arthas and all that.

I've only ever read a little bit about WoW, and its crazy to see how many characters gods or worlds there are, but since I know so little about WoW I will just ignore it.

If I was in charge of making wc4 or a new wc3 expansion, I would probably ditch the lore or story and just base the entire game about multiplayer. Maybe add a few tutorial levels but a full campaign would not be neccessary, Id rather have more co-op type game modes, objective based scenarios would be fun and each one could have their own little story within the "world" of of warcraft.

Anyway, to answer the question of this thread. I think it would be best for arthas to get too powerful and be destroying everything, when thrall shows up and kills him... I was always surprised they had arthas defeat the demon hunter (i know he returns in wow, but in TFT he died IMO) but it would be interesting if an orc was the one who defeated the ultimate death knight, leader of the undead. I always saw warcraft as taking the orcs from lotr and making them more likable so that would be a good ending to a tft expansion/sequel... and I will steal the idea from above to have jaina searching for arthas trying to save him, but then she ends up falling for thrall and being torn apart when the two end up fighting :)
 
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