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About D3

Discussion in 'Gaias Retaliation ORPG' started by Decent, Jun 15, 2016.

  1. Decent

    Decent

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    So much time passed after D3 was released in game. Nowadays (especially after 1.2C patch) D3 is not challenging for almost each class with lvl 50 gear. But still some people needs to slay bosses like FL to get parts to create their items (Phoenix, Yarr, as boxofaith mentioned Hopebringer (and i also think that some other rare mats as Glass, Fire Diamond drops from FL too). There is no problem to kill FL or clear full dangeon, but main problem in wasting of time with undead waves with Sergeant, you kill creeps very quickly but delay between waves is too huge.
    Is there any way how can it be solved?
    Maybe some ticket/pass what can be bought in Myt what allows you (and your party) to skip waves and go straight to FL/Andy/Lady?
     
  2. BoxOfFaith

    BoxOfFaith

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    Nope. Part of the difficulty is the imposed time sink. Deal with it.
     
  3. Devlain

    Devlain

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    I really, really encourage this suggestion. I started played when D3 was not a thing so with my friends and I we just did the dungeon twice and skipped to higher level content.
    I don't think that imposed time sink translates into difficulty. I work 9 hours at day and like many other players we don't want to waste time in easy doable but time consuming content, it's like we were playing Grindcraft III instead of Gaias.
    I don't have complains to grind interesting and challenging enemies that punishes you if you just afk farm, but I don't agree that the MUST-TO-DO quest to access D3 is a good design at all.
    I'll not ask Zwieb to change old mid-game content just because I didn't played at that 'season', but for the sake of God, don't assume that "Part of the difficulty is the imposed time sink", that's an excuse for not saying that this part of the game lacks a good solution to a game design problem.
     
  4. BoxOfFaith

    BoxOfFaith

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    Then don't go for the legendary drops..? You don't need them for completing any content. If you want to obtain these items then you need to put up with the time sink required to obtain them. No reason they should become free handouts just because its "easy".
     
  5. Devlain

    Devlain

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    It's ok to not go after the legendary drops if somebody doesn't have time to grind for them, but saying that the time sink is part of the difficulty of the game is a fallacy.
    TvTropes wrote a good article about that http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FakeDifficulty
     
  6. BoxOfFaith

    BoxOfFaith

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    Thats an extremely shortsighted way of saying that the way you enjoy the game is more valuable than how somebody else wishes to experience the game. Players enjoy different aspects of gaming. Time sinks and grind requirements will always exist, its simply impossible to continually pump out content that ultimately doesn't get undermined in some other way. Removing the time sink of D3 completely trivializes the point of it existing. In this sense, the only thing keeping any sort of prestige value for the 'legendary' items is the time sink required to obtain them.
     
  7. Devlain

    Devlain

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    Sorry if I expressed myself in a shortsighted way, but you saying that grinding is part of the satisfaction of the game is also valuing your enjoyment above my enjoyment, so we are at the same level there.
    Grindy-ness is subjective, but I think many users think Legendaries are grindy even without taking D3 into the equation.
    Again, I'd like to skip the waves to enter D3, it's the only event/quest in the game that doesn't "remember" you have completed it; but I'll not insist Zwieb to do it because is old content.
     
  8. BoxOfFaith

    BoxOfFaith

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    Its just that I don't understand why you'd draw the line at D3 waves. Respawn timers are fake difficulty, only getting one drop at a time from bosses when we can easily beat them is fake difficulty. You're not complaining about that though. I want a game that requires me and others to need to put time and effort into achieving the maximum gear possible. Gaias doesn't exactly receive enough regular updates that can hold player attention for long enough time on its own that we can simply remove time sinks because they feel too grindy. We need some of these time sinks to simply separate the player base a bit so that not everybody can achieve max characters in 5 hours. Its really not much of an achievement to get gear if its super easy and everyone can do it in a small amount of time.

    Gaias is actually very kind in how its grind and gear distribution functions. Its still pretty quick and easy to gear an individual character. I personally enjoy having things to go for that will take hours, I really don't understand why players really want these things to take less time. That just takes out all the fun of actually achieving obtaining these items.
     
  9. Jumbo

    Jumbo

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    In my opinion it would be cool if the boatsman could, for a high price (say, 2000 gold - it is dangerous after all) bring the players to the harbour area of D3. This requires people to kill a few otherwise skippable mobs, but removes the req. of lieutenaunt waves for people who don't want to do it. Also it will put unused mobs in D3 to good use.
     
  10. Devlain

    Devlain

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    I agree that grindy-ness its an important part of this game and keep its alive. I'm not a against it, sorry if I gave you that idea (once again, this is not my native language) but it should be correctly implemented and, of course, everybody have a different opinion on the matter.

    I draw the line in D3 waves because, in my personal experience with another players and friends, most of us agreed on the fact that D3 waves again in every new game of gaias feels 'wrong' after doing that quest, and it's inconsistent with the other quests of the game. Of course, this is subjective, but the observation is consistent with most of the people I asked and even some people which I didn't asked but gave me the same opinion.

    I think you gave me a very good point up there and something to think about, but I still think D3 would be better if i could skip the non-D3 part after doing it the first time.

    Just my 50 cents to this idea.

    I think this is a pretty fancy and cool solution.
     
  11. S0ulseeker

    S0ulseeker

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    @Jumbo
    As cool of an idea that is, What's to stop the player from just -repicking if their legenaries don't drop in d3 so they don't lose the gold. For that matter what 'if' you died. You'd spawn back at the entrence, waves uncompleted, and would have to pay again which would just result in a repick.

    @Devlain
    I get where you're coming from, but think of it this way: the waves is more than a quest, it's an entire boss encounter with lieutenant at the end that just so happens to have a quest tied with it. The best solution would be to have a button on gaspode to send next wave earlier if you are ready
     
  12. Devlain

    Devlain

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    I like the idea of "send next wave".
     
  13. Decent

    Decent

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    Avoid repicking can be solved by getting(buying) some item with higher price (maybe like 20k and some mc) what will allow you to enter infinity times but with.
    Idea about "send next wave" is also good.
     
  14. Jumbo

    Jumbo

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    Just make the transport a repeatable quest then. Give it a 15 min CD. This means that people who repick will have to wait an extra 15 minutes.
     
  15. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

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    This has been discussed many times. I could make it so that the waves spawn as soon as the old one is defeated, but that's a huge increase in difficulty for groups that actually try to run D3 at the gear/character level it was originally intended for. Which is a no-go in my eyes.

    Also, paying to skip content? Absolutely not.



    Also, let me just say this:
    Over the years people have begged to get more legendary items in the game. And now that I see the dozens of threads complaining about any string that is attached to it, all I can say is: See? THIS is why I hate legendaries, why I was reluctant to add more and why I will definitely think twice about adding new legendaries again in future content upgrades.

    Because people just love to complain about literally anything.

    Some months ago, people complained about D3 being dead content that everyone skips. Now everyone complains about how you must run D3 again in order to get certain items to upgrade. Make up your god damn mind!


    Seriously, I'm sick of it. Since the release of 1.2C, I am getting nonstop complaints about items, legendaries, too hard content, too easy content, too grindy content, not grindy enough content, too fast content, too slow content, etc.
    How about some "I like all the new stuff, thanks for all the hard work you put into this over the last year! Really appreciating it!" for a change?
    Seriously.



    I can't recall there being as much whining when foothills was first released. Foothills was super grindy with next to nothing to do except from boss grinding.
    Do you really want to go back to this?
    For the first time since forever, endgame content in Gaias is more than just grinding bosses over and over and over. And all I see is complaints everywhere.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016
  16. Jumbo

    Jumbo

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    Zwieb the key is to simply ignore the illegitimate complaints - as any professional developer would do ;-). Also, personally I don't care for skipping content, but think multiple entrances is a cool addition :) but just ignore it if you dont like the idea. I like Gaias either way
     
  17. S0ulseeker

    S0ulseeker

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    I just want to note I love 1.2c and everything about it, and I do appreciate the work you've placed in the map over the years :D I'm with jumbo here I'm really indifferent Bout the s3 waves, i was just posting why it shouldn't be skipped initially and a potential alternative for the sake of discussion
     
  18. Devlain

    Devlain

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    Zwieb, I've said it before and it doesn't bothers me to say it again.
    Even if I sometimes try to provide the best positive criticism I can (and I hope you don't take my suggestion or point of views as complaints because that's not my intention), I really, REALLY appreciate what you do for us as a Gaias players and what you do for W3 as a map developer of the best W3 ORPG I know.
    I even said I loved 1.2c and I stalked the roadmap thread telling all my friends about the next release of Gaias. God I even shared it in https://www.facebook.com/groups/WC3RPGs/?fref=ts with excitement.
    I'm not an active online player because I work a lot and my connection to Europe and NA sucks (I'm in Argentina), but if you don't know, I think most of the community here in the forums are Gaias fans which are vary grateful to you.
     
  19. SHBlade

    SHBlade

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    Great job Zwieb! Imo 1.2c is the most solid Gaias update so far.
     
  20. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

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    This wasn't fishing for appreciation, I just wanted to point out that things have become quite messy here lately, up to a state where literally everyone complains about everything, no matter how miniscule the problem actually is.

    This thread wasn't a bigger problem to me than any other, it's just something i wanted to get out of my system and I just so happened to select this thread to do it; so don't take it personal.