Abilities that stack with itself.

[Tal'Rarity]

They stack. So odd, maybe only with items, maybe not. Though remember we can't add the same ability twice which is where secret inventories and items come in EXTREMELY handy. You can make dummy items that do nothing to fill up the rest of the slots if there are some that's empty so items don't look like they disappear in your inventory.

List:
Spiked Carapace/Shell
Cleaving Attack

End of list.

I'd appreciate help on this topic, so we can find out all the ones that stack. Might prove useful to advancing custom stat systems. One that requires less triggers, but more items or maybe both with so much more in what's possible.

 

[Wietlol]

I don't really understand the concept of it...

Why do you want to stack abilities?
You can't use them multiple times when they are on cooldown.

 

[Tal'Rarity]

Passive abilities as well yeah you can. Not entirely sure, but it should be possible.

 

[edo494]

evasion stacks, and critical doesnt stack traditionally. They all roll, but only the one critical strike with highest modifier, or the newest attained(dont know which exactly) will crit, so if you have 99% crit for 2x dmg and 1% for 3x damage, if both evaluate to true in one attack, you will get 3x crit.

Evasion stacks in some assed way so that 50% + 50% != 100%(cant remember the way).

The only really useful stacking of abilities I know of is the tornado wander or whichever tornado ability it is, allowing you to stack buffs.

 

[Tal'Rarity]

Oh and anything below 3% for critical strikes doesn't work since it uses a rounding system unlike evasion. 3 goes to 5 and 2.49 or lower means 0.

Thanks for the info edo494.

 

[edo494]

there was a table made by PnG a while ago giving you the roughly estimate for each percantage chance. So basically 1% editor = X ingame(from like 1000 hits or something), for each up to 100. Was very interesting, but I dont think I can dig it from the dead, but I should have the file on the other computer somewhere still. Finding it tho, will almost be like digging the thread from hive

 

[Tal'Rarity]

there was a table made by PnG a while ago giving you the roughly estimate for each percantage chance. So basically 1% editor = X ingame(from like 1000 hits or something), for each up to 100. Was very interesting, but I dont think I can dig it from the dead, but I should have the file on the other computer somewhere still. Finding it tho, will almost be like digging the thread from hive

Uh huh... Easy enough to just make an example for this since I was already testing other stuff. As I said it rounds to the nearest integer of 5. =)
Basically critical strike doesn't work accurately unless you use numbers that divide evenly by 5.

 

[Wietlol]

Neither stack.

Both evasion and critical strike work separately.
When you have 3 abilities:
1: 70% chance to deal 200% dmg
2: 50% chance to deal 200% dmg
3: 50% chance to deal 250% dmg
Then you have 2^3=8 different results:
1: 100% dmg (1 no, 2 no, 3 no)
2: 200% dmg (1 yes, 2 no, 3 no)
3: 200% dmg (1 no, 2 yes, 3 no)
4: 250% dmg (1 no, 2 no, 3 yes)
5: 300% dmg (1 yes, 2 yes, 3 no)
6: 350% dmg (1 yes, 2 no, 3 yes)
7: 350% dmg (1 no, 2 yes, 3 yes)
8: 450% dmg (1 yes, 2 yes, 3 yes)

The chances are separated accordingly:
1: (1-0.7) * (1-0.5) * (1-0.5) = 7.5% chance
2: 0.7 * (1-0.5) * (1-0.5) = 17.5% chance
3: (1-0.7) * 0.5 * (1-0.5) = 7.5% chance
4: (1-0.7) * (1-0.5) * 0.5 = 7.5% chance
5: 0.7 * 0.5 * (1-0.5) = 17.5% chance
6: 0.7 * (1-0.5) * 0.5 = 17.5% chance
7: (1-0.7) * 0.5 * 0.5 = 7.5% chance
8: 0.7 * 0.5 * 0.5 = 17.5% chance
(total = 7.5 + 17.5 + 7.5 + 7.5 + 17.5 + 17.5 + 7.5 + 17.5 = 100%)

So you have a very low chance that you will not critical strike when having these 3 abilities... however you have a very high chance (from 5 til 8 = 60%) that you will critical multiple times.

For evasion it is exacly the same...
But what if you evade one attack two or three times?
That doesn't matter. You will end up with the exact same thing as when you evade it only one time.

So for evasion chance you have:
100 - (1-(Chance of Ability 1 )) * (1-(Chance of Ability 2)) * (1-(Chance of Ability 3))
100 - (1-0.7) * (1-0.5) * (1-0.5)
100 - 7.5
92.5% chance to evade.

This calculation works for chances between 0 and 100 ofcourse.
When having a chance below 0 or above 100 the calculation is a bit messed up so you have to cap them at 100.

Oh and anything below 3% for critical strikes doesn't work since it uses a rounding system unlike evasion. 3 goes to 5 and 2 or lower means 0.

Thanks for the info edo494.

Are you serious?

 

[Tal'Rarity]

Well check the testmap, it's all the proof you need to find out.

 

[edo494]

critical strike does not stack, all critical strike passives roll every attack, but only the one with highest modifier will fire. You can test this by giving unit 2 critical strike abilities with 100% each and one doing 2x dmg and the other doing 3x dmg, and you will see you never deal 6x dmg, but only 3x.

Evasion seems correct tho

 

[Wietlol]

critical strike does not stack, all critical strike passives roll every attack, but only the one with highest modifier will fire. You can test this by giving unit 2 critical strike abilities with 100% each and one doing 2x dmg and the other doing 3x dmg, and you will see you never deal 6x dmg, but only 3x.

Evasion seems correct tho

But multiple critical strikes with the same (highest) modifier will crit both?

(I base my calculations to what actually should happen... I haven't played WC3 a lot.)

 

[edo494]

only one ability will crit in one attack instance, if they both have the same modifier, than I guess by chance, or random one.

And yes the calcualation is correct, but the wc3 has nonstandard behaviour in crit, and it is true that the wc3 will round it someway to multiplies of 5. Even tho not necessarily, because PnG showed that 89+ chance or however much will round to 95 or some shit. The real chance is really weird

 

[Wietlol]

Well... you made me test it because I was pretty certain that WC3 had almost the same things that I said...

In the test map I have
1: 100% 2X dmg
1: 100% 2X dmg
1: 100% 3X dmg

And I dealt 30+((2-1)*30)+((2-1)*30)+((3-1)*30) = 150 dmg
The text displayed
30+((2-1)*30) = 60 dmg
30+((2-1)*30)+((2-1)*30) = 90 dmg
30+((2-1)*30)+((2-1)*30)+((3-1)*30) = 150 dmg
all 3 over each other...

Seems like I have not WC3... maybe I got WC4

Even tho not necessarily, because PnG showed that 89+ chance or however much will round to 95 or some shit. The real chance is really weird

Well I stopped using WC3 standards a while ago...
This would be in addition to my list of reasons.