[Cinematic] A question to the active cinematic authors

[Nasrudin]

Apologies if this may be considered somewhat offtopic, but I suppose there isn't really a better place to ask.
Years ago I made this npc model (attachment below) for pratice while I was learning to animate. You might think it is pretty poor in quality, and you'd be actually right, it was never meant to be relased to the public, so I could afford to slack.
While I have basically left modding since then, after having recently watched, and appreciated, many nice cinematics producted here, I figured I'd show my gratitude by making a better version of that model, with several emotes and somewhat credible facial expressions, animated eyes, mouth, eyebrows and sarcazzi, actually visible in game (not only in the portrait).

So I have two questions basically, first one being, what animations do you think would be the most useful to include?

And secondly, since I have no clue about actually using the WE, what's the best way to organise the animation names? I do know not every name is recognised by the WE, yet it's still possible to play them via triggers, but are there easier solutions?

 

[Hemlock]

I noticed this post somewhat late.
In regards to your first question you could consider things like a, walk, run, attack, stand, spell, jump, land.

How that would translate itself into a model I am afraid I cannot really tell you (i've only skinned in my good days), try looking/asking around in the modeling section.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Hmm... I think there are more animations which you can create from the usual named above, is there?

 

[Nasrudin]

That's what I was asking Foxy, I could perhaps abuse some tags like gold, lumber, alternate, but I don't think there are enough for all the sets I plan to do.

Hemlock, you can bet I realise the need of including the most basic animations...
Maybe I should have explained myself better. This is what I have planned:

Talk (several variations needed, not really sure how to manage that)
Laugh
Smile
Nod
Negate (shake head)
Cower
Yell
Kneel (in submission\respect)
Kneel (as to get something from the ground)
Fall on knees (in exaustion or desperation)
Cross arms
Eat
Sit on ground
Stand on ground
Talk on ground
Lie on ground
Sleep on ground
Lie on bed
Sleep on bed
Sleep on bed (on a flank)
Pray
Sit, read, eat on a chair
Sit, read eat at a table (same position as above, except that elbows would rest on the table)

Now my questions was: are there other *simple* animations that you would want me to include?

The final model should reach at least 30+ animations, probably even around 50. So this leads us again to the main question: how should I name all those animations so that they are relatively simple to use?

 

[Nasrudin]

Bump.

Had some good progress so far, naming issues aside, the animations are shaping up nicely... but now I have some questions wich really need an answer, or I can't progress anymore.

- It is possible to play an animation backward?

- Is there a way to make an animation start from a certain point rather than the beginning?

- I have noticed some short cinematic scenes where X npc follows another with his head, how does it actually work?

- It is possible to change the speed at wich an animation is played?

- Is it possible to make attachments play a specific animation?

- It is possible to make a unit play a specific animation as it is moving? Let's say, "stand 2" instead of "walk"?

 

[CMarket]

- I have noticed some short cinematic scenes where X npc follows another with his head, how does it actually work?

- It is possible to change the speed at wich an animation is played?

- It is possible to make a unit play a specific animation as it is moving? Let's say, "stand 2" instead of "walk"?

The first two can easily be done with one action in the triggers. It requires nothing from the modelers themselves.

The third can be done by using a slightly more complex trigger, where you move the unit using a trigger instead of movement, and while doing that playing the animation at specific intervals. Not really complex or hard to make, but once again requires nothing on the modelers part.

 

[Matthewop]

i come here to see the answer

 

[Hemlock]

- It is possible to play an animation backward?

Sure, you just can't set a negative value for the animation speed trigger, but you can set it to a variable that is negative.

- Is there a way to make an animation start from a certain point rather than the beginning?

Sure however you will need the unit to play the animation to that point within the animation first. Suggested to use timers to freeze the unit when it reaches that animation, and resume it whenever you need it to.

- Is it possible to make attachments play a specific animation?

Not sure what you mean, can you elaborate on your question.

Note: the above examples are all GUI trigger functionalities.

 

[Nasrudin]

The first two can easily be done with one action in the triggers. It requires nothing from the modelers themselves.

But how does it work, do you command the head bone to rotate X degrees left, Y up? Or does it move automatically once you "lock" it on a target?
Reason I'm asking is that I'm using two bones in my model to move the head, as opposed to most Blizzard models wich use only one. Not sure if it would interfere with that kind of action.

Sure, you just can't set a negative value for the animation speed trigger, but you can set it to a variable that is negative.

Sure however you will need the unit to play the animation to that point within the animation first. Suggested to use timers to freeze the unit when it reaches that animation, and resume it whenever you need it to.

Mmm, sounds a little complex for what I had in mind... let's make an example. Let's say that I want to make my unit kneel down during a scene. From animating perspective I have several ways to do it.

1) I could make a single animation where it gets on its knees and then back on feet immediately, with no pause. Let's call it "Kneel". It would then be up to the cinematic makers to freeze the animation during the knelt position, and resume it once they need the unit to get up on feet.
Pretty simple job for me, but then, if the scene lasts long, the unit would look unnatural by standing perfectly still for all its duration.

2) I could then add a second animation, let's call it "Kneel Loop", where the unit simply breathes and moves a bit while knelt down. A cinematic maker would then have to play the first animation "Kneel" until half, then play "Kneel Loop" for as long as the unit is supposed to stay down, and then play the second half of "Kneel".

3) Third option, I make three animations, one where the units kneels down, one where the units stand down, and one where the unit gets back on feet. Sounds like the easier solution, doesn't it? Except that it means far more work for me...

What would you advise me to do?

Not sure what you mean, can you elaborate on your question.

Models placed on attachment points, like swords, shields, projectiles. Let's say I made a bow model with two animations, one where the string stands still and one where it is pulled back. Then I assign the bow to my unit's right hand via triggers. Can I play the second animation when my unit is attacking?

 

[PurgeandFire]

But how does it work, do you command the head bone to rotate X degrees left, Y up? Or does it move automatically once you "lock" it on a target?
Reason I'm asking is that I'm using two bones in my model to move the head, as opposed to most Blizzard models wich use only one. Not sure if it would interfere with that kind of action.

When you lock something like the head, it will auto-follow the unit. You can also move it to an offset by locking it to the unit itself. (and then there is a field for offset)

For the second reason, it may bring up some concern. For some reason, moving a bone aside from head/chest via triggers doesn't seem to function properly. You might be able to test it out further, but last I checked it works only for bone_head and bone_chest. (or something like that, don't have WE open atm)

Mmm, sounds a little complex for what I had in mind... let's make an example. Let's say that I want to make my unit kneel down during a scene. From animating perspective I have several ways to do it.

1) I could make a single animation where it gets on its knees and then back on feet immediately, with no pause. Let's call it "Kneel". It would then be up to the cinematic makers to freeze the animation during the knelt position, and resume it once they need the unit to get up on feet.
Pretty simple job for me, but then, if the scene lasts long, the unit would look unnatural by standing perfectly still for all its duration.

2) I could then add a second animation, let's call it "Kneel Loop", where the unit simply breathes and moves a bit while knelt down. A cinematic maker would then have to play the first animation "Kneel" until half, then play "Kneel Loop" for as long as the unit is supposed to stay down, and then play the second half of "Kneel".

3) Third option, I make three animations, one where the units kneels down, one where the units stand down, and one where the unit gets back on feet. Sounds like the easier solution, doesn't it? Except that it means far more work for me...

What would you advise me to do?

Third option would probably be the most user friendly. Although, if they know how to use http://www.wc3c.net/showthread.php?t=103936, maybe it can be reduced to only 2. However, I don't remember the specifics of that system.

Models placed on attachment points, like swords, shields, projectiles. Let's say I made a bow model with two animations, one where the string stands still and one where it is pulled back. Then I assign the bow to my unit's right hand via triggers. Can I play the second animation when my unit is attacking?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean. If it is named "attack" or something like "attack gold" then yeah, it can replace the normal attacks. If you name it something like "attack gold", then you can always remove the animation tag "gold" via triggers and it will revert to the old "attack" animation for attacking.

And secondly, since I have no clue about actually using the WE, what's the best way to organise the animation names? I do know not every name is recognised by the WE, yet it's still possible to play them via triggers, but are there easier solutions?

You can name them whatever you want. (or at least you should be able to) Triggers can make a unit play any animation via SetUnitAnimationByIndex. So for things like "talk" or any misc animations, you can always just have them resort to that function. After all, you don't need them to do it after a particular action. As far as I know, animation tags are used when you want to have it automatically replace something like the animation used when a unit attacks, walks, etc.. For random animations, you don't need to replace anything, so you can probably make it whatever you'd like.

 

[Nasrudin]

Thanks PurgeandFire, some intresting info there. I'm going to try the extra animations route for now.

For attachments I meant that my unit model is weaponless. Weapons, shield and tools it will use during animations will have to be added via triggers or spell effect. As far as I remember, the attachment will display the "birth" animation once added, then "stand" for as long as it remains on the unit, and "death" once removed.
The thing I was wondering is if there's a way to make attachments play a specific animation at a given time.

Edit: and while I'm at it, I guess it's time to post a preview.

 

[PurgeandFire]

The thing I was wondering is if there's a way to make attachments play a specific animation at a given time.

Sadly, there aren't functions for modifying the animations of attachments. There are possible alternatives, but they usually depend on the map/involve a bit more coding and junk. Perhaps it is doable if you know specific info of the unit, but I never tried it myself. I still look forward to the model, however. It looks pretty cool so far.

 

[xDeathKnightx]

That's what I was asking Foxy, I could perhaps abuse some tags like gold, lumber, alternate, but I don't think there are enough for all the sets I plan to do.

Hemlock, you can bet I realise the need of including the most basic animations...
Maybe I should have explained myself better. This is what I have planned:

Talk (several variations needed, not really sure how to manage that)
Laugh
Smile
Nod
Negate (shake head)
Cower
Yell
Kneel (in submission\respect)
Kneel (as to get something from the ground)
Fall on knees (in exaustion or desperation)
Cross arms
Eat
Sit on ground
Stand on ground
Talk on ground
Lie on ground
Sleep on ground
Lie on bed
Sleep on bed
Sleep on bed (on a flank)
Pray
Sit, read, eat on a chair
Sit, read eat at a table (same position as above, except that elbows would rest on the table)

Now my questions was: are there other *simple* animations that you would want me to include?

The final model should reach at least 30+ animations, probably even around 50. So this leads us again to the main question: how should I name all those animations so that they are relatively simple to use?

I Am soon planning on making a short cinematic, Probley a horror or of some similar nature, but this, would be extremely useful. I know that.
If you could, you should try to name every single animation differently. so it is easier for cinematic makers to use the model.

Anyway, good luck with it.

 

[Nasrudin]

Animation names aren't really the biggest issue as of now. Even if I messed them up on the final relase, it takes only a mdl converter, notepad and a couple of minutes to rename them correctly.
You can take a look at the model already if you wish, it's nowere near being completed but it can give an idea of what I'm aiming for.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...305392573-cinematic-npc-model-bodytestf4r.mdx

Also I'm open to suggestion for new animations, I've been running out of inspiration lately, but I'd rather not putting the model on hold, chances are I'd just forget about it and never finish.