(2)FlameWars

[WolfFarkas]

Hello there, nice terrain, I like dungeon fire theme, I will review it in order to help you to improve your map.


1)Base goldmines should be defended by wood to avoid the enemy kill your peons. and the wood in base is low.

2) Tavern is not simetryc, it is 7 Units near the left player and 9 units near the right player (I used a ruler). Tavern should not be guarded, at least thats the standard. Night elves usually use it to have a hero with strengh than with agility or inteligent.

3) Expanding goldmines do not have wood and the wood in base is low.

4) the flyers can pass the gigants rock an get in (tested), path blockers for air are needed.

5) A 128x128 is usually a size designed for 4 player map, while 96x96 is designed for 1vs1, What I mean is you have to walk a lot and there are a lot of empty areas. Yoy only have 2 expanding goldmines, 2 markets and 1 tavern. Other neutral buildings could be placed such fountains, goblin labs and mercenary camps. Another couple of expading goldmines can be placed too.

6) The terrain tileset mix is perfect, but the terrain is all flat, some altitude variation can be done with the rise and down tools. In wc2 all the terrain is flat but in wc3 the terrain look more wild if is not all at the same level.

7) Doodads, the terrain tile mix is perfect but the map has only around 934 doodads. Rocks, bones, smoke, skulls, whatever, the doodads helps to make the enviroment and give beauty to the land, land without doodads looks empty. You can use doodads of other tilesets. You can remove the pathing of the doodads and make combinations like a rock all with skulls, or with torches. As you combined the tiles in the land, the combinations of doodads is limitless.

well I hope some of my tips helps you to improve your map, again nice terraining, good luck in the contest. A good tip is always study others maps, you learn a lot by doing it.

 

[deepstrasz]

Melee maps are usually named (2)Divided by Flame.w3x.
Map layout isn't symmetrical.

1. Undead will suffer greatly from Blademaster, Militia or rush attacks in general because the mine has no tree/doodad cover.
2. There are absolutely not enough trees. A few at the starting place and none for the expansion.
3. No other custom material for melee maps than terrain-tile skins, doodads. No custom unit models or skins or unit object data manipulation (eg: revenants).
4. Avoid enabling the player to reach the map boundary. It makes it look bad.
5. Terrain is quite flat. Much of it has little to no doodads. Tiles are varied.
6. The mine in the north has better/stronger guardians than the one in the south. Symmetrical melee maps should have mirrored neutral hostile camps. If not, at least balance/match the strength of the neutral camps. One of the Wildkins has chaos damage and fast attack speed. Or the two golem pairs, metal and rock. The stronger rock golem has the Boulder ability whilst the metallic one doesn't have that advantage.
7. Neutral units do not start with full mana.

I suggest these:
Competitive Melee Map
How to create Melee Maps
A Beginner's Guide to Map Making

Awaiting Update.

===================================

Always check/recheck the Map Submission Rules! (Map Submission Rules)

Screenshots could attract more players to download your work. Make the best of them.

A detailed changelog in the first post would be helpful to reviewers and notify fans about the newest implementations to your map.

If you want more reviews, come here:
The Grand Review Exchange!

 

[Paillan]

The revenant is a skin. Doesn't count.
Since this is a final entry, I cannot edit it, can I now?

 

[WolfFarkas]

The revenant is a skin. Doesn't count.
Since this is a final entry, I cannot edit it, can I now?

The rules of the map section are independent from the contest, if you want your map approved you are somehow forced to update it.
Editing the text and the images is also an edit of the map (it will say you edited the thread)


"To submit your final entry, you must upload the entry's contents as a bundle in the Maps Section, and link to that bundle in this thread confirming the submission."

When you upload a map, there are a lot of common mistakes like forgeting to put the name author, or grammar mistakes, or setting to last patch and update is mandatory.

I reviewed many maps for the contest and they edited after the users reviews or the mods reviews.

a rule against edition would mean a rule against the map section itself. And that rule is not redacted in the contest.
What you canot do is to create a new map or a new thread for the contest, but this one can be edited as many times you like.

Probably the 21 the mod of the contest will download all the maps and say time up, so you can edit your map free but that version it won´t be in the contest.

or maybe when you submit your final entry the mod of the contest download the map, and editing your map, the improved version won´t contest, I do not know,but a rule against editing maps in the map sections would be a real absurd.

 

[Paillan]

Welp, edit then.

Changelog:
1. Mirrored creeps (I think)
2. Added more wood, closed the gold mines, added more wood.
3. Added stones here and there and other stuff.

 

[MysteryMaze]

Welp, edit then.

Changelog:
1. Mirrored creeps (I think)
2. Added more wood, closed the gold mines, added more wood.
3. Added stones here and there and other stuff.

Did you remove the creeps at the tavern site?

 

[Paillan]

Did you remove the creeps at the tavern site?

No I did not

 

[MysteryMaze]

No I did not

I think you should. Certain races use tavern heroes as their first heroes ;p

Removing creeps is more of mandatory!

 

[deepstrasz]

Please leave only the latest version.

EDIT:
The filename is too long and some (like me) might not be able to see the map ingame. Usually, melee maps are named as: (2)Divided by Flame.

Be sure to add pathing blockers around the rocks that get off-screen to avoid flying units moving through them.
The three mud golem camp in the west are nearer to the western player than the camp in the east to the eastern player. Same for the mud golem+rock golem camps. Also, the two revenant groups. Actually the eastern player is farthest to most creep camps.
The Tavern is much closer to the west player.

Awaiting Update.

 

[deepstrasz]

The filename is too long and some (like me) might not be able to see the map ingame. Usually, melee maps are named as: (2)Divided by Flame.

Be sure to add pathing blockers around the rocks that get off-screen to avoid flying units moving through them.
The three mud golem camp in the west are nearer to the western player than the camp in the east to the eastern player. Same for the mud golem+rock golem camps. Also, the two revenant groups. Actually the eastern player is farthest to most creep camps.
The Tavern is much closer to the west player.

Awaiting Update.

 

[Paillan]

The filename is too long and some (like me) might not be able to see the map ingame. Usually, melee maps are named as: (2)Divided by Flame.

Be sure to add pathing blockers around the rocks that get off-screen to avoid flying units moving through them.
The three mud golem camp in the west are nearer to the western player than the camp in the east to the eastern player. Same for the mud golem+rock golem camps. Also, the two revenant groups. Actually the eastern player is farthest to most creep camps.
The Tavern is much closer to the west player.

Awaiting Update.

I know the map is bad and all but there's no reason to post the same review twice

EDIT

CHANGELOG:

- Get ready bois, the map is now properly symmetrical :v
- Removed middle creeps and centered the tavern

 

[loboproto]

Simetría OP

 

[Paillan]

Simetría OP

Spanish OP

 

[loboproto]

Spanish OP

Spanish is gud, shpanis is life amigo.

This map need a update!

 

[Panda]

This map need a update!

Please do-not double post.

 

[deepstrasz]

Filename is still too long.

Terrain is still pretty much flat.
The Tavern is still closer to the western player and not only.
Places where the big metal golems are could look nicer.
Avoid using the black boundary and instead use pathing blockers to bend the map borders at the corners.

See the coloured lines in the images below:


Awaiting Update.

 

[Panda]

Why do not you get off your turtle better? Do not you see that several did double post, and come to fuck me. Shut up.

Hmm? Watch your tone.

 

[Paillan]

Filename is still too long.

Terrain is still pretty much flat.
The Tavern is still closer to the western player and not only.
Places where the big metal golems are could look nicer.
Avoid using the black boundary and instead use pathing blockers to bend the map borders at the corners.

See the coloured lines in the images below:
View attachment 285164 View attachment 285165

Awaiting Update.

I think you used the old picture of the minimap to draw those lines buddy, this is the new one:

I'll look at the rest in a while.

 

[deepstrasz]

I think you used the old picture of the minimap to draw those lines buddy, this is the new one:

Hmm... I'll download it again.
Yep, you didn't upload the newest file. I get the previous version when I download.

 

[Paillan]

Hmm... I'll download it again.
Yep, you didn't upload the newest file. I get the previous version when I download.

My bad then. Saddly I am far away from my PC to fix thar rn.

 

[WolfFarkas]

My bad then. Saddly I am far away from my PC to fix thar rn.

I donwload it and I agree with Deepstrasz, yes the tavern is not in the center, it can happen that maybe you uploaded the wrong version.

 

[twojstaryjakcie]

I think that @deepstrasz mentioned it already when he referred to the map's boundary issue, but the square regions in bottom right and top left parts of the map look just bland compared to the rest of this otherwise visually pleasing map. It feels as if you felt that you should add something more to the map, but I think there's no need for that. The other creeps on the map are sufficient and the map itself is big enough withou these rectangular regions. However, if you feel like it should stay the way it is, then I'd strongly suggest changing its shape and blocking the boundary with a cliff, for example.

Other than that, I like this map in spite of its other issues mentioned by other users, though I'm positive these could also be easily fixed.

 

[deepstrasz]

-Trees/mushrooms are nearer to the southern expansion mine than the one in the north.
-The southern mine can be attacked by melee units from behind unlike the one in the north.
-I suggest surrounding the mines a bit with trees since undead Acolytes are vulnerable. Or use some doodads.
-Mushroom trees near the expansion mines are too spaced and units like Wisps may be hidden there for scouting/spying purposes.
-You could potentially push the green revenant camps a bit towards the middle/mushroom zone and add more trees to the main base towards where the revenant camps are. This will make less cheesy strategies/rushes with the Keeper of the Grove and Blood Mage viable.
-Avoid having neutral units facing with their back at the zone where player units get to and attack them.

Awaiting Update.

 

[Paillan]

-Trees/mushrooms are nearer to the southern expansion mine than the one in the north.
-The southern mine can be attacked by melee units from behind unlike the one in the north.
-I suggest surrounding the mines a bit with trees since undead Acolytes are vulnerable. Or use some doodads.
-Mushroom trees near the expansion mines are too spaced and units like Wisps may be hidden there for scouting/spying purposes.
-You could potentially push the green revenant camps a bit towards the middle/mushroom zone and add more trees to the main base towards where the revenant camps are. This will make less cheesy strategies/rushes with the Keeper of the Grove and Blood Mage viable.
-Avoid having neutral units facing with their back at the zone where player units get to and attack them.

Awaiting Update.

1. How can the trees be nearer? they were copied and pasted :|
2. Will check
3. Will do
4. Intended
5. I have no idea what you are trying to say.
6. Will check

 

[deepstrasz]

1. How can the trees be nearer? they were copied and pasted :|

Check the distances between east and west of the mines.

5. I have no idea what you are trying to say.

 

[RFWH]

Nice dude reminds me of Firelands.

Also... excellent name. Please don't change it.

 

[deepstrasz]

You should place expansion mines equally distanced from the lava.
There are still too few trees in the main bases and you did not compensate that with adding some near the expansion mines. Instead the trees in those regions are far from the mines forcing players to place their expansion worker building somewhere between the mines and trees. That wouldn't be much of a problem if the trees were somewhat surrounding the place but they range farther to the opposite side of the mine.

Awaiting Update.