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1.2A(13) goes gold!

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Level 8
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This is mostly because of the drastically lower HP values at lvl50 coupled with the lack of HP on high gear. Looks like some HP will be added to some gear so this should be addressed. However, I do like the idea of, "hey you can use this item which has great power but you run the risk of dying pathetically if things go wrong".
 
Level 7
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There has not been any health added to the current items, however Ihaz and I went through and checked the health values on the new gear. The values should suffice, as we made items that give high health but should also give lower dps values for all the different types of gear. But honestly we don't really know if the values will suffice because we don't know what the new content is like.
 

Jumbo

Hosted Project GR
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Ugh I was so disappointed by Pillars of Eternity to be honest. It was my most anticipated game for 2015, but it failed miserably at delivering the 'Baldur's Gate feel' that I wanted. Don't get me wrong, it starts out good with the caravan ambush and everything, but the first village is horribly designed. Uninteresting and very few quests. And then there is the Stronghold. I feel like this is a feature that isn't properly implemented. Instead of feeling naturally like a place you can take over by earning it, you basically just kill a few ghosts and suddenly the whole place "thinks" of you as its owner. Very unimmersive to say the least. I could go on about how disappointed I was, but I guess this is getting kinda offtopic.

Still looking forward to 1.2B!
 
I'm aware of the health problem at current endgame...
But this is more or less something that should be fixed via items, not really via stats, imho. I think the overall direction we are going with this is right; it's just some more tweaking that is required.


Btw, I'm almost through the game now, so I should be back to modding soon. ;)
 
Level 7
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Hey Zwieb, have you played Guilds of Hyppos at all? That game has an interesting "Master point" system that could work well in Gaias to add some progression past level 50 without adding actual physical levels which would make balancing issues more difficult.
 
Level 7
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Well, as leveling increases you'd have to increase our characters total power. This leads to some of the issues we have with current content, being many older pieces of content can be easily skipped. As it stands now, there is little to no purpose of doing the third dungeon because as we level up to 50, the gear obtained from there is easily outclassed by the higher level easier to obtain green items of the foot hills.

Essentially, creating content for a capped level productive becomes much easier to balance, and allows for new unique abilities to be put on new gear that otherwise might be over or underpowered if it came on lower leveled stuff.

Which is where the GoH Master Point system comes into play. That game allows you to level past the level cap, without giving the benefits of increased skill points and such. This means that a 10 master point item (which would essentially be level 60 in our case, level 50 + 10 master points) would be much weaker than a 40 master point item (which would be level 90 :p). As it stands now, we'll have a ton of level 50 items with no real way of differentiating them, and with no real way of feeling like we're progressing from trash mobs.

Allowing us simply to level up straight to level 100 would drastically affect how most of the formulas work. We've already had massive issues with how crit% was calculated based on an old formula by the time we got to level 50. If we were able to continually increase that, nearly every character could potentially be near 100% crit chance and that's not an ideal situation.

So I think having a system that lets us "Level up" without powering us up would be a good addition. It differentiates pre-d4 gear that we'll be getting from actual D4 gear itself, and it gives us some reason to feel like we're progressing from killing trash mobs instead of it feeling like a pointless time sink.
 
Level 3
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I really think D3 gear could use some reworking as well. You see, even tho items in that dungeon are equipable at lower levels, I think the difficulty to get it should make them at least even to those in lumberjack camp.

That way, the incentive to play D3 would be that it gives you a way to be evenly geared with a maxed out char that farmed the mountain wilderness but at lower levels.

How about that?
 
Level 7
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Well, We'll be getting upgradeble Reds from D3, so players will have a purpose to farm it either way.

Going back and reworking every item at this point would be too much work, and likely to create more imbalances than it would fixing anything. Also, I dont think looking backwards to create purpose is necessarily the way to go. I'd rather just accept the fact that certain portions are somewhat skippable as we progress forward into new areas.

Besides, if we ever get heroic mode then there will be plenty of purpose of experiencing the heroic dungeon content, so the map space won't be wasted then anyway :p.
 
Sorry for my absence... it's just that I am very busy with some RL issues atm [as I said already: moving back to my hometown], which in return prevented me from playing much, so I couldn't finish PoE yet. I'll keep you posted about the update!

I appreciate the discussion about possibilities to make level 50 endgame more interesting. But for now, I'd say, let's actually have level 50 content first before we think about possibilities in expanding it, right? ;)
 
Level 7
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I have no problem with that :p. I was just trying to come up with something to do and achieve apart from boss gear farming. Most of us have farmed our levels to 50, so Im curious if we'll have much to do apart from farm the bosses.

Maybe more rare drop from common mobs like some of the Misc items in the foothills. That provided a nice little farming distraction that we can do in a more relaxed solo fashion.
 
There will be the repeatable quests and extensive crafting, which will allow some farming and exploring for a change.

The repeatable quests are basicly designed in a fashion that makes the objective more random than the current quest designs.

So basicly a "kill boss" quest will have a random boss selected on every take. Or a collect-type of quest will feature searching for items that spawn on random (but pre-defined) places. Also, there will be a repeatable quest that involves crafting aswell.

I'm currently also thinking about adding a quest that will feature helping lowlevel players through D1-D3 or a quest that unlocks a new skill for each mercenary.
 
Level 10
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While tweaking merc stuff is just more stuff that will delay 1.2B which I'm opposed I think mercs will always have a future in gaias as long as you don't have a full party and anything zwiebel ends up doing to them I'm sure will be great
 
Level 7
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More abilities for the mercenaries actually sounds pretty cool, especially if they're designed to be unlocked via solo content. Its reasonable to take a mercenary with you if you're soloing, so having them be upgraded that way would seem very logical.

Also Im glad you've thought of ways to continue to implement things to do outside of new boss farming. I think most players would be happy with just boss farming and such, but what makes Gaias so great is that theres honestly way more to do than just simply farm all the bosses :D.
 
Level 8
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Has it been reported that Monk's lvl50 ignore crit talent simply does not work? Speaking of Monk talents, he really needs one to pierce evasion (partly or completely).
 
Level 8
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I find it weird that Crusader has such high evasion values endgame. The cookiecutter build leaves him with 21%, with the evasion talent and redrazor instead of seal leaves him with 28%. Would it not make more sense to slap small damage block values on crusader gear?

Considering that Crusaders have damage block from shields and mitigation from parry, all this evasion seems to go against the lore AND makes Monk seem even more useless.

Even just increasing armor and HP values while cutting evasion out would be more appropriate. The only gear that should have high evasion is Monk gear.
 

SHBlade

Hosted Project GR
Level 14
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Ye Kamina, I was talking about crusader's evasines earlier. For me he should have 0-5% eva max cause how heavy armored big guy with shield (which cramp ur moves even more) can evade something... ? Replacing evade with block or parry will be best idea cause in medieval, knights sometimes were blocking attacks with their armors.
 
Think of evasion more like a combined stat of parry and evasion.
I didn't want to convolute the system with multiple stats doing effectively the same.


I'm currently experimenting with the idea of adding +hit on items aswell, which can be used to negate enemy evasion.

Bosses in D4 will definitely have higher evasion scores than the current bosses, making the existing +hit talents in the game more meaningful.
 
Level 3
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I wanted to know how can a lvl 50 hero misses a hit to a lvl 7 monster, it makes no sense to me, I was helping a guy and I missed x3 in a row to a thief lvl 7 in dungeon 1
 
Level 7
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@Cheno

Thieves have a rather high evasion stat. Even if its only 10% theres still a 1/1000 chance of missing 3 hits in a row, thats not really that rare in the grand scheme of things.

Also about Crit and Evasion... Would it be possible to change them into stats similar to how spell haste works now? How every 100 haste cuts spell casting time in half? Obviously it wouldn't be identical but it'd allow for the stats to be stacked past 100.

For Crit, have every class have a base amount of 10% chance to crit. Every 10 (or whatever arbitrary number for balancing purposes) crit score from items would increase crit chance by 1%. This could further by augmented by agility scores by having every 5 agility points give 1% crit as well.

Evasion could work similarly. Perhaps a base of 5%, and then have items with evasion score just simply increase the percentage. This means Crusaders can still be "evasiony" to tank, but monks will simply have a lot more evasion stacked on their gear than on crusader gear.

Considering we can't pick our base stats any longer, I don't see much need for the convoluted systems for evasion and crit that are meant to be based on the base stats any longer. A more simple system that would allow for much more diversity on weapons in the future would be kinda cool.

Obviously we can't stack 50% crit on an item, even if it had awful other stats. With a change to the formulas, we could have much larger numbers to work with, which provides us with more diversity when building weapons. 50 crit score would be equal to about 10% crit, but 50 is a rather large number, which means we have 50 different numbers to work with when building other items, whereas 10% to crit only gives us 10 numbers to work with for alternatives. Hopefully that makes sense?
 
Level 7
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Also Zwieb I really liked the idea of chance to hit and critical reduction as stats. Even if "crit reduction" (10 crit reduction would mean 10% less likely to be hit with a critcal hit, think of it like armor against crit chance) seems counter intuitive.
 
To be honest, I don't like the idea of the arbitrary "crit" and "evasion" scores of WoW.
I mean; i get the idea behind this (allowing for level-scaling on those stats), but it's also kind of unintuitive for the player to work with. With a raw percentage on items, you always know what you're up to and I like that. You can say with 100% certainity that 1% crit equals 0.5% more DPS (with a crit modifier of x1.5).

Avoiding the power creep of said stats is not as big of an issue as you think:
Crit and evasion are never the only stats items have. There is always a non-scaling component on items, like AP, Armor, etc..

So imho, there is no problem with an item granting 4% crit on level 30 and an item granting the same 4% crit on level 50. It still feels like an improvement as the other stats on said item are larger.

Obviously, we can't stack crit much higher than like 5% on weapons and 3-4% on armors to prevent people from stacking more than 40-50% crit. But there's imho no problem with that. There are enough absolute stats to compensate for the missing variety in relative stats:

Relative stats:
Crit, Evasion, Haste, Resistance

Absolute stats:
Armor, Attackpower, Spellpower, Armor Penetration, Attributes

As long as the relative stats are always paired with an absolute stat, there is not really a problem here.


About the resolution:
I also don't think this is much of a problem. The resolution of 1% change is small enough so that players won't notice a dramatic change between using one item or the other. A 0.7% chance to crit or a 2.5% chance to crit won't make much of a difference over 1% or 3% after all.

I like the solution found with haste, changing the formula to allow stacking beyond 100%. But I can't see that work the same for evasion or crit, as there is no "base value" we can look at. Yes, there is the flat 5% crit for every character, but it would always be a static: 100% crit would mean 10% crit instead of 5%. So there's no real reason to base it on base value; it just changes number, but not the actual scaling (like it does on haste).

I know about the "Level up - congratulations! You are weaker now!" problem of the stats-by-attribute formulaes in the game. We discussed that before. The problem is: accounting for enemy levels here is very complicated to implement from a technical point of view - and might introduce a lot of unwanted new bugs. But I'll think about it again.
Maybe I can come up with an easy solution, like awarding a flat 1% bonus to evasion and crit per level difference on damage calculations.
 
Level 7
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I finished up everything with the items.

I decided to put the level requirement right next to the type of item that it is in the tooltip.

So it'll be like:

The Batters Edge

Weapon - Level 38

Some of the recipes seemed to have hit a character limit, so I ended up needing to remove some of the color codes for some of the material requirements. Everything still looks fine though Imo.

Feel free to PM me with the instructions of how to send it back to you when you need it back. I'll make sure to make a note on the items that need their procs looked at too.
 
I finished up everything with the items.

I decided to put the level requirement right next to the type of item that it is in the tooltip.

So it'll be like:

The Batters Edge

Weapon - Level 38

Some of the recipes seemed to have hit a character limit, so I ended up needing to remove some of the color codes for some of the material requirements. Everything still looks fine though Imo.

Feel free to PM me with the instructions of how to send it back to you when you need it back. I'll make sure to make a note on the items that need their procs looked at too.
Thanks for your help. You can just use the pastebin here and send me the link.

Yeah recipes were always a bitch with the char limit. So you removed all the non-rare material color codes from recipes? I'm asking this because some uniformity of style is important; we don't want items where materials are white and some are grey.

What do you mean with items that need their procs looked at too? You mean the new items you made for 1.2B content? I already checked them after you made them and there were no errors there... or did you change something since then?
 
Level 7
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Hmm, I didnt change anything however my Bard sword was having an issue with its proc. Its art would fire off, however it wouldn't actually deal its damage. Maybe it had to do with its lightning damage talent, I have no clue. I also didnt bother testing any of non-weapon procs so I wasn't sure if they were triggering properly, Im glad to hear I did that right then.

Anyhow let me go back and ensure the recipes have more consistency then.
 
I only checked for the internal structure, I didn't test them in game, so it might be possible that there are bugs.

Just to be clear: with uniformity of style I meant that there is a consistent color coding, not that all color coding should be removed.
So if you only removed the color coding from non-rare materials across all recipes, that's fine. But it would be bad to have some recipes with color-coded non-rare materials and some without.
 

Jumbo

Hosted Project GR
Level 19
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Jun 22, 2007
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Yeah it's been some long 2 weeks ;-). Just kidding, I know how it is with free made mods, the community cannot demand anything from a developer who is really only doing it for his/her enjoyment. Still, would be nice with a little update. Gaias is the reason some of us still have Warcraft 3 installed.
 
Level 10
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Not only do I have wc3 still installed only for gaias, I still run a stealthbot 24/7 on my pc for gaias haha (or try to at least)
 
Btw, I've started working on something new yesterday that I thought Gaias wouldn't ever see...
But I've looked through the code and noticed that all reasons I had to stay away from this were basicly plain laziness. A restructuring of some stuff was way overdue anyway, so here we are.

A new feature will come to Gaias. Or rather: new content. And it will come pretty soon. I'll try to get it working for a beta in 1-2 weeks.

Let the speculation begin. ;)
 
Level 8
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Oct 2, 2011
Messages
551
Every 5 levels we gain a personal loli. With a bonus loli at lvl50. I'm glad you're finally seeing reason and implementing this.
 

Jumbo

Hosted Project GR
Level 19
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
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Seriously though, I always thought it would be cool with some kind of transporting system which could supplement the teleport scrolls and be more immersive. I.e. boats, zeppelins, mounts. But I doubt this is really the new feature. Your ideas seem more likely Soul.
 
New feature: enemies that get too close to each other in melee will now try to reposition themselves.

I tried almost half an hour to exploit this system to gain an advantage in battle and I think I have now found the sweet spot in which the system will try to keep a large enough distance without the player being able to abuse it reliable enough for it to matter.
 

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