✅ Texturing Contest #31 - POLL

[PROXY]

So, you don’t disagree with what I’m saying but you disagree with my audacity to say it how it is?Because instead of trying to argue the specific issues I pointed out you rather chose to play to the gallery and try to invalidate my right to point them out because oh how I even dare to question.

The evaluation and premise that poll will be able to bring at least C - quality of score was due to the fact that most of the times it got it somewhat right without too major upsets. At the time I exited the contest my entry was among bottom two entries. Sorry, but the system failed unexpectedly, such result is misguided and unrealistic, biased. I advocated for poll to determine the winner, but not a poll which is visible during polling, did it play a part in failure, probably it did. Poll showed that it is too unreliable to be used as a way of delivering proper score.

No, I'm sorry, but I'm pointing out your failed effort to grasp what a poll is and means. There is no "right" with a poll. There is no "proper" result. You're unhappy with it because it didn't correspond with "your" perspective of how it should have went.

Even if all entries were quality and value-based on the exact same level, people would still choose the ones that ring with them more. Otherwise, in theory, following your logic, they would have to vote for all entries equally, which results in a tie, which is useless.

And shame on you for calling it a "popularity" contest. Has it ever occured to you that people are voting for stuff because they absolutely adore it, and that the "popular" people, how you call them, are "viewed as such" because of their great creations and having a style that people adore?

 

[Footman16]

So, you don’t disagree with what I’m saying but you disagree with my audacity to say it how it is?Because instead of trying to argue the specific issues I pointed out you rather chose to play to the gallery and try to invalidate my right to point them out because oh how I even dare to question.

The evaluation and premise that poll will be able to bring at least C - quality of score was due to the fact that most of the times it got it somewhat right without too major upsets. At the time I exited the contest my entry was among bottom two entries. Sorry, but the system failed unexpectedly, such result is misguided and unrealistic, biased. I advocated for poll to determine the winner, but not a poll which is visible during polling, did it play a part in failure, probably it did. Poll showed that it is too unreliable to be used as a way of delivering proper score.

My entry was also pretty low down at the start and is now 3rd so maybe if you had waited out the results of the poll you would've seen a change.

 

[Shido]

I suffer from envy problem when I'm not in a contest because I don't have wide spread recognition like my fellow contestants.
Don't get me wrong, I recall jelly about Doc's Firelord skin and while I could make much more gucci version. I just don't buy in being better but not being myself. (That's also how my dear Dune Reaper Firelord was born.) If I play my game in risky business then let it be and I will grow my own cult.

About the poll itself, I was vocal about it for a while but I mellow it out once accept defeated. Things are judges capable to pull a dark house winner because I probably have seen many times leading polls still end up 2nd or 3rd places (Frosty and 3 heads Hydra would like to have a word) so who know what is cookin over there.

Btw, @PROXY how long you and frosty will finish judging. I'm excited to look at for Improvement.

 

[Murlocologist]

No, I'm sorry, but I'm pointing out your failed effort to grasp what a poll is and means. There is no "right" with a poll. There is no "proper" result. You're unhappy with it because it didn't correspond with "your" perspective of how it should have went.

Even if all entries were quality and value-based on the exact same level, people would still choose the ones that ring with them more. Otherwise, in theory, following your logic, they would have to vote for all entries equally, which results in a tie, which is useless.

And shame on you for calling it a "popularity" contest. Has it ever occured to you that people are voting for stuff because they absolutely adore it, and that the "popular" people, how you call them, are "viewed as such" because of their great creations and having a style that people adore?

This contest has judging criteria, which you should be aware of since you signed up to be its judge. The fair result of contest is one based on merit. Merit comes from objective quality, outlined by criteria. Voters are instructed to take criteria into account before voting.

Contest judges were removed due to many reasons and poll was supposed to be their pseudo replacement, a calculated risk and a shortcut to deliver results. It was perspective of everyone who organized and joined this contest, that poll (general public) will be able to deliver results without major upsets.

 

[PROXY]

This contest has judging criteria, which you should be aware of since you signed up to be its judge. The fair result of contest is one based on merit. Merit comes from objective quality, outlined by criteria. Voters are instructed to take criteria into account before voting.

Contest judges were removed due to many reasons and poll was supposed to be their pseudo replacement, a calculated risk and a shortcut to deliver results. It was perspective of everyone who organized and joined this contest, that poll (general public) will be able to deliver results without major upsets.

I struggle to find the motivation to answer you, but as you've critizised/condemned my role as a judge twice, first by already predicting that the judging will be usesless because we will simply affirm the polls results, and secondly by saying I'm not aware of judging criteria, I feel the need to further humor you.

Yup, it was a shortcut to try to keep the contest alive. It was the perspective of everyone to deliever, yet you were the only one that, in the fraction of the time the poll was supposed to last (and as @Footman16 said, the votes did change quite a bit) immediately canceled out because it did not affirm to your perspective of how it should have went instead. Instead of being a proper sport, you left the contest where you signed up and accepted the conditions and in the worst case could have left the contest with too few contestants to begin with.

You are truely blind to reality if you expect polls to be 100% proper fair and objective, because they never will be. This is something that is absolutely obvious and is one of the absolute first aspects that were thought of when applying them instead of judges. YET everybody agreed and accepted the conditions. But now, as one of the absolutely calculated risks came into play, which it always could have, you start to point out the obvious flaws the system had, yet EVERYBODY accepted beforehand?

 

[Shar Dundred]

For someone who quit and removed their entry, Murloc sure is still active here.

Quite hilarious that the drama still lives on. Arena being Arena!

 

[Murlocologist]

For someone who quit and removed their entry, Murloc sure is still active here.

Excuse me, why is it your concern? Why wouldn’t I be active?

I struggle to find the motivation to answer you, but as you've critizised/condemned my role as a judge twice, first by already predicting that the judging will be usesless because we will simply affirm the polls results, and secondly by saying I'm not aware of judging criteria, I feel the need to further humor you.

Well, yes because after I exited poll there was not any righting wrong left to do, so judges are redundant in my opinion at this stage. If you don’t think there is much issue with the poll as of now, why did you ask to judge this contest when you already agree with poll result? If the first three places will remain the same, than what’s the point of delaying the announcement of winners?

 

[PROXY]

Excuse me, why is it your concern? Why wouldn’t I be active?

Well, yes because after I exited poll there was not any righting wrong left to do, so judges are redundant in my opinion at this stage. If you don’t think there is much issue with the poll as of now, why did you ask to judge this contest when you already agree with poll result? If the first three places will remain the same, than what’s the point of delaying the announcement of winners?

Because, for all your stubbornness, we, both frosty and me, wanted to keep everybody in the contest and happy, and if it meant there had to be judges still, we would go for it, which we did.

 

[Shar Dundred]

Excuse me, why is it your concern?

Why not?

 

[General Frank]

Why not?

Because if someone cannot have a piece of cake, nobody should... even though they didn't want cake in the first place.

On topic though. I really love those entries. Some very high-quality stuff. You should not be undermined by senseless nonsense.

 

[Murlocologist]

Having a certain view on the subject matter and writing balanced objective review for each entry is ‘undermining senseless nonsense’?

If you don’t like different opinion, then either challenge it or don’t read it, but don’t try to condemn someone for voicing it.

 

[General Frank]

Having a certain view on the subject matter and writing balanced objective review for each entry is ‘undermining senseless nonsense’?

If you don’t like different opinion, then either challenge it or don’t read it, but don’t try to condemn someone for voicing it.

Aren't you doing the exact same here?
You left the contest and removed your entry and thus your credibility, attempts influence it and hostility should cease.
"If you don't like it, then leave it" - And that's what you did, except not.

 

[Rui]

My expectation was what is the promise of this contest, a skill competition that’s merit driven

A user-driven poll would not fulfill that, regardless of votes being public or private. For the reasons I already cited: you have a mismatch in criteria, since users judge not by merit. Those who don't skin or model can't even tell where merit lies. Even when attempting an honest vote. My question was semi-rhetorical, as I had grasped what you intended. I am just saying you were naive in your expectation.

As if you suggest there are not supposed to be standards to this game just because it’s wc3 or for fun. Scale doesn’t matter, integrity does.

I agree with your last sentence, but I never implied there shouldn't be standards. What I was hinting at is the following: you wrote a post, in which it sounded like you were banging the door, then said you weren't upset, and I kinda failed to believe you. The point was certainly not to aggravate you. Much by the contrary: notice how @Archian humored your request and @frostwhisper's attempt to get you to stay. You insisted in exiting and left no ground for bargaining. It may seem like a proportional response to you, but everyone else is having a hard time understanding. You think that's because you care more about integrity than they do?

To me, a reasonable stand would be to admit the (public?) poll was a bad decision, keep the entry, but voice concern that these standards lead to popularity tourneys. Ideally, write new standards and justify why they are better. This would be optional: we may feel the direction being taken is the wrong one, but can't exactly point where we should be headed, and that's okay. Voting for a poll to decide the contest, then jumping ship when the results don't suit you, is that integrity? Again, I don't ask this to irritate you. I just think you've blown it a bit out of proportion. At the end of the day, Wc3 is a game, and the point of a contest is indeed fun — and engagement, as @PROXY said —, and there are harsher things in life to be bothered about. Nobody wants you annoyed or upholds contests should be ruled by unfair standards.

Quite hilarious that the drama still lives on.

Lord Antonidas, there's no need to be snide. :KappaArthas: In all seriousness, you got me to blame for that, since I stirred up the discussion again. I didn't mean to get @PROXY annoyed or anyone else, but I think polite discussions can be healthy.

 

[Murlocologist]

It wasn’t naive, it was calculated risk. Because history thought us that polls in these contests got it right more than they got it wrong. Or at least major upsets were rare and that’s why calculated risk was worth taking.

I advocated for poll that wouldn’t show results until polling was over, and making this one public was a mistake which ultimately felt like breaking of the promise of merit throughout the entire voting period. By making poll into a wild west invitational/ festival a whole set of misguided agendas and effects were invited upon turning it into environment I didn’t subscribe to when entering contest and therefore exit was logical option.

 

[Vinz]

So, you don’t disagree with what I’m saying but you disagree with my audacity to say it how it is?

The issue is not your audacity. It's your childishness.

The evaluation and premise that poll will be able to bring at least C - quality of score was due to the fact that most of the times it got it somewhat right without too major upsets.

According to you, polls before this one had a pretty good track record. That means you were okay with the widespread bandwagoning and popularity contests that you so eagerly allege now, so long as you agreed with the results. And since you said most polls do entries justice, there's no reason this blip should shake your faith now. Unless, of course, it was all about you. That would be silly... right?

Sorry, but the system failed unexpectedly, such result is misguided and unrealistic, biased.

You called it a calculated risk, but you weren't mature enough to take things in stride when the public didn't give you a landslide on day 1. Out of two weeks of voting. And now you've insulted the judging before it's even come out.
I'll add that I appreciated your reviews. Good points in there. It just goes to show there are plenty of productive things that would better serve your time than wallowing in the bitter bed you made.

 

[Moy]

I wanna really join this conversation, but I'm a tired adult from work so I won't. See you in the next contest

 

[deepstrasz]

Everyone's an adult lately. How about not putting more coal on the wasteful fire instead?

 

[Moy]

Everyone's an adult lately. How about not putting more coal on the wasteful fire instead?

Rather than making fire, it will just stress me out, don't wanna add more haha!

 

[frostwhisper]

Thread locked.

The poll has now concluded and the thread has served its purpose. I see no point in continuing this discussion, seeing as certain individuals are just talking in circles in an increasingly disrespectful manner. As my fellow judges and I gather the results, I recommend you check out our Texturing Contest #32 Theme Poll where we decide where the competition takes us next.