Your wc3 map in Dota 2

[David]

With the aplha release of Dota 2 Workshop Tools you can make custom mods in dota 2. Just like you can in wc3, now will you guys make dota 2 maps ? Got any ideas perhaps? Share everything here!

 

[Jicyphex]

Remakes are inadvisable. It depends on how aggressive Blizzard will be and how defensive and careful Valve will handle it. I know with certainty that Valve does not want another legal issue with Blizzard (after that last one that was debated for over a year which ultimately ended in various restrictions on Valve's side).
IP and DMCA is a serious issue and I wouldn't toy around with that. If anything, Valve has shown how serious these things are for them and the previous incidents (such as the recent CS:GO DMCA takedown or faceless' mace in 2012) are just showing their attitude towards intellectual property. These actions end with career-ending consequences, including a permanent ban and discontinuation of revenue share as well as collaboration. Sorry for being the spoilsport here but I highly doubt that Valve would approve any mod with stolen/imported models/assets from another IP.
Now before people start with the infamous "as long as it's not monetized, we're fine" argument that I've been hearing recently; No, this isn't how it works. There's a figure in law called lucrum cessans, essentially saying that you can sue for using illegal methods (like using an IP that doesn't belong to you) to stop others from profiting from their normal operations. Basically missed/lost potential profit. Any company could sue based on these grounds if they wanted to.
The reason why I'm bringing this up is because the majority assumes that we're going to get all of the oldies back in the workshop and approved by Valve. The nostalgia trip is strong right now, people are expecting quality remakes of their childhood games but this is not how it works. I feel like there will be quite some disappointment in the future because a lot of people have this misconception of how all of this works.
You can still make them, especially in the Alpha stage but don't expect to go big with these things. Valve is a big fan of original content and I highly doubt that they will risk approving something that is in a grey area. A lot of these things are grey area.

It gets even worse when it comes to Starcraft 2 and their EULA which is basically saying "all your base are belong to us" in every single way possible.

Oh, well, I've said more than enough. I'm not stopping anyone from remaking the classics since I'm a wc3 veteran myself and had a few ... preferences. I wanted to bring in a lot of high quality remakes to Dota 2 (with all the resources available to me) but I chose to keep it at 2-3 for now (which is for example Element TD with the original author Karawasa).

Source: I've been around in the Beta before the first waves were sent, participated in the current live workshop (cosmetic) and work with various successful artists. I have also been with Dota 2 modding from the moment of its birth and released Fight or Flight, the first Dota 2 standalone mod in March,. I've also founded M.O.D. which works on several projects which also launched D2moddin - the custom mod platform.

Edit: Let me elaborate with another source

C. Representations and Warranties
You represent and warrant to us that you have sufficient rights in all User Generated Content to grant Valve and other affected parties the licenses described under A. and B. above or in any license terms specific to the applicable Workshop-Enabled App or Workshop page. This includes, without limitation, any kind of intellectual property rights or other proprietary or personal rights affected by or included in the User Generated Content. In particular, with respect to Workshop Contributions, you represent and warrant that the Workshop Contribution was originally created by you (or, with respect to a Workshop Contribution to which others contributed besides you, by you and the other contributors, and in such case that you have the right to submit such Workshop Contribution on behalf of those other contributors).
You furthermore represent and warrant that the User Generated Content, your submission of that Content, and your granting of rights in that Content does not violate any applicable contract, law or regulation.

Whenever you upload content, you guarantee that it was made by you and it's not IP infringement. I highly doubt that Valve would risk another fight with any company. That's why I'm sure that they'll only be looking at original content and new IPs.

 

[David]

Thanks for the long and detailed post. But people already made a shitton of the old maps into dota 2 like pudge wars etc... And valve doesn't aprove and disaprove mods, they are there to be downloaded by whoever wants them

 

[Jicyphex]

That is because we are in an Alpha stage now, there are no rules or regulations. Valve does not disapprove mods but they will certainly react if a C&D comes in.
And they DO approve mods (or will after Christmas) just like in the first workshop. You can see the page here.
The reason why they don't put up any disclaimer is because it's better this way in order to test the tools when people have already existing problems to work on which in the end results in better feedback and QA for the Tools.
Again; I'm not stopping you from recreating any of your maps but if you think that it's all that simple, you're up for some disappointments. Furthermore; aside from the first Pudge Wars (I worked with the people in the early days after Fight or Flight), we don't have a single working recreation so far. All of them are broken and are maybe 10% finished.
Rules will change when we port to Source 2 and the modding workshop will be properly introduced (starting with people being able to ACTUALLY play games which is not really possible at the moment). I realize that people (especially from hiveworkshop) are all nostalgic and like "yay, we can remake our old maps now and get a lot of attention and Valve to host these games for distribution" but the world is not all development and sunshine. There are rules, laws and IP infringements. Most people usually disregard it and think "well, it's just like 10 years ago". This is a different market and a different domain. Comparing WC3 modding to Dota 2 modding is a big mistake.

 

[gorillabull]

not until someone makes a data editor with a gui then maybe just maybe

 

[BlinkBoy]

Remakes are inadvisable. It depends on how aggressive Blizzard will be and how defensive and careful Valve will handle it. I know with certainty that Valve does not want another legal issue with Blizzard (after that last one that was debated for over a year which ultimately ended in various restrictions on Valve's side).
IP and DMCA is a serious issue and I wouldn't toy around with that. If anything, Valve has shown how serious these things are for them and the previous incidents (such as the recent CS:GO DMCA takedown or faceless' mace in 2012) are just showing their attitude towards intellectual property. These actions end with career-ending consequences, including a permanent ban and discontinuation of revenue share as well as collaboration. Sorry for being the spoilsport here but I highly doubt that Valve would approve any mod with stolen/imported models/assets from another IP.
Now before people start with the infamous "as long as it's not monetized, we're fine" argument that I've been hearing recently; No, this isn't how it works. There's a figure in law called lucrum cessans, essentially saying that you can sue for using illegal methods (like using an IP that doesn't belong to you) to stop others from profiting from their normal operations. Basically missed/lost potential profit. Any company could sue based on these grounds if they wanted to.
The reason why I'm bringing this up is because the majority assumes that we're going to get all of the oldies back in the workshop and approved by Valve. The nostalgia trip is strong right now, people are expecting quality remakes of their childhood games but this is not how it works. I feel like there will be quite some disappointment in the future because a lot of people have this misconception of how all of this works.
You can still make them, especially in the Alpha stage but don't expect to go big with these things. Valve is a big fan of original content and I highly doubt that they will risk approving something that is in a grey area. A lot of these things are grey area.

It gets even worse when it comes to Starcraft 2 and their EULA which is basically saying "all your base are belong to us" in every single way possible.

Oh, well, I've said more than enough. I'm not stopping anyone from remaking the classics since I'm a wc3 veteran myself and had a few ... preferences. I wanted to bring in a lot of high quality remakes to Dota 2 (with all the resources available to me) but I chose to keep it at 2-3 for now (which is for example Element TD with the original author Karawasa).

Source: I've been around in the Beta before the first waves were sent, participated in the current live workshop (cosmetic) and work with various successful artists. I have also been with Dota 2 modding from the moment of its birth and released Fight or Flight, the first Dota 2 standalone mod in March,. I've also founded M.O.D. which works on several projects which also launched D2moddin - the custom mod platform.

Edit: Let me elaborate with another source




Whenever you upload content, you guarantee that it was made by you and it's not IP infringement. I highly doubt that Valve would risk another fight with any company. That's why I'm sure that they'll only be looking at original content and new IPs.

That's also inside wc3's EULA if you read it up. Normaly, it's there so they protect themselves. With DOTA blizzard took legal actions due to how much was the term used within their community and also because DOTA 2 is basicly an HD remake of DOTA 1 which used a lot of wc3 lore and design like alleria windrunner and chen stormstaut. Blizzard settled it up, in my opinion, in very good matters with Valve. As the final agreement gives full rights to Valves but allows modders of Wc3 and sc2 to use the term DOTA, anyway they want within their mods.

I don't think copyrights (atleast with remaking Wc3/Sc2 maps) is an issue for DOTA modders but the editor itself. It's harder than the Wc3 Editor but easier than the Sc2 editor for making certain simple maps. However, when it comes to complex maps, Sc2 Editor beats DOTA's editor since it provides better tools for managing complex data, complex triggers and custom interfaces, not to mention the AI and cutscene editors. Also DOTA 2 lacks assets and modelling for it is as hard as modelling for Sc2, the models are also a bit more lacking when it comes to effects and simplifications for low machine users.

 

[Jicyphex]

Blizzard settled it up, in my opinion, in very good matters with Valve. As the final agreement gives full rights to Valves but allows modders of Wc3 and sc2 to use the term DOTA, anyway they want within their mods.

Wrong. Blizzard did not simply give Valve full rights and let them make Alleria Windrunner and the likes. That's already where it begins: Names and design.
Valve is not free to do whatever they want. The hero you mentioned is neither Alleria, nor a Windrunner. Valve was forced to rename both name and title (It's Lyralei, the Windranger). This wasn't at the same moment as well. First they renamed only the hero name since it was obviously Blizzard's property and only after a year, they were forced to rename titles as well. There were multiple other difficulties, Obsidian Destroyer was renamed to Outworld Destroyer and then renamed again to Outworld Devourer. Necrolyte and Doombringer also come to mind.
It's also not only names. Blizzard also pressed Valve to (e.g.) remake Axe's design (such as cutting the ponytail since it was apparently too close to Mogul Khan).
Valve had was obliged before and they will answer to Blizzard again if Blizzard chooses to request another change.

Either way; I'm not here to argue since everyone can do whatever they want. I'm stating facts. What you do with it is up to you but I wanted to clear up a few misconceptions that have been lingering here over the last few months. If you want to fully remake your old maps; go ahead.

It's harder than the Wc3 Editor but easier than the Sc2 editor for making certain simple maps. However, when it comes to complex maps, Sc2 Editor beats DOTA's editor since it provides better tools for managing complex data, complex triggers and custom interfaces, not to mention the AI and cutscene editors. Also DOTA 2 lacks assets and modelling for it is as hard as modelling for Sc2, the models are also a bit more lacking when it comes to effects and simplifications for low machine users.

I will have to disagree again. It seems like you don't have a lot of experience with the Tools (or Hammer) yet. I have worked with Star Editor, World Editor, Galaxy Editor and Hammer (which is now inside the Tools).
I don't see (at all) how Starcraft's Editor provides better tools for said features (I'll elaborate on each of them):
Complex data? I don't see how the Galaxy Editor is superior to Lua and AS3. It doesn't have a fancy GUI that lets newcomers manage their Data like World/Galaxy but that's a matter of usability, not possibilities. Not to mention that we've forced a premature release of the tools and the tools are currently quite Alpha.
Complex Triggers? How so? You can combine hammer and Lua together and make all the complex triggers you want. But even here again; Alpha. Not even Beta.
Custom Interfaces? Not quite sure if you're serious. How is it hard to make a custom interface with AS3/Scaleform in Dota 2? You can make ANY interface you like, remove the default and override it completely. If anything, this feature is more advanced than Starcraft's.
AI? We're working with AI in one of our commissioned projects and it works just fine. You'd have to elaborate here.
Cutscene editor? This is possible (camera lock, camera spin, control lock and have AI execute a series of events) but I prefer SFM over cheap cutscenes in the game.
Dota 2 lacks assets? That is correct but I don't see how "modelling is harder". It's simple modeling just like in any game. We've created a large amount of custom models with particles and animations. If anything, the amount of detail and polygons are higher than Galaxy Editor. I can't remember how detailed Starcraft's masks were but Source 2 features specular bloom and reflectance, Self Illum/gloss and more. Textures are also quite detailed for the given genre. I believe that 1024 (if not 512) was the maximum for Starcraft 2 models, correct me if I'm wrong.
Edit:

That's also inside wc3's EULA if you read it up.

I did read WC3's Eula, it's not as specific and clear about the rights as SC2.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Blizzard (well actually Activision Blizzard) and Valve have probably had a private agreement with regards to DotA 2. This agreement would have come about around the time that "Blizzard DotA" was changed. It probably included what ideas could be copied and what ideas could not. For all we know considerable financial settlements could have occurred through proxies that are not publicly known as both companies are large and the game involved (DotA 2) is predicted to be pretty huge.

I don't see how the Galaxy Editor is superior to Lua and AS3.

Speed? Is LUA closer to Galaxy or to JASS?

Complex Triggers? How so? You can combine hammer and Lua together and make all the complex triggers you want. But even here again; Alpha. Not even Beta.

This is valve so we can assume that the alpha, beta and release will be approximately as buggy, usable and stable. If it causes you any grief they will probably give you a free TF2 (or was it 3 now?) hat.

Custom Interfaces? Not quite sure if you're serious. How is it hard to make a custom interface with AS3/Scaleform in Dota 2? You can make ANY interface you like, remove the default and override it completely. If anything, this feature is more advanced than Starcraft's.

SC2 Interface is also pretty much fully customizable.

AI? We're working with AI in one of our commissioned projects and it works just fine. You'd have to elaborate here.

I doubt DotA 2 has anywhere near the RTS AI SC2 has seeing how it is an AoS. Equally well SC2 will have nowhere near the tactical AI DotA 2 has because its an RTS. That said SC2 AI is dramatically improved over WC3 since now it is standard trigger script as opposed to some alternative JASS AI script that few people ever touched. The only issue with SC2 AI is that some functionality (mostly the AI actuator and sensor engine configuration as well as tactical filter operations) are only available through custom script as it appears that Blizzard was too lazy or forgot to declare all the GUI declarations for it. That said it is easy to fix with some inline script.

but I prefer SFM over cheap cutscenes in the game.

Not everyone has fibre-optic broadband. To most of us in-game cutsecnes are worth the huge decrease in download time. Also with modern graphic cards the quality is such that only really silly people would get outraged. I mean compare the pre-rendered cutscenes of Final Fantasy 7 with the in-game intermission environment rendered in real time in SC2 and you will see that pre-rendered is not always best.

If anything, the amount of detail and polygons are higher than Galaxy Editor. I can't remember how detailed Starcraft's masks were

4 Layers for surfaces. I forget what they all are but they include normal, emissive and diffuse. SC2's engine is HDR (high settings only) so bloom is obviously included. It also includes non-deterministic physics for clutter interaction.

One would expect the models of a game where you command 1 hero to look a lot better than a game where you command 400 zerglings against 200 marines. Also SC2 is over 3 years old now where as DotA 2 I do not think is even released.

I believe that 1024 (if not 512) was the maximum for Starcraft 2 models, correct me if I'm wrong.

They are D3D10 dds surfaces so are subject to the limits and restrictions placed by dds surfaces.
Most in game unit surfaces are 1024*1024. The exception are cinematic models used in campaign mode which are 2048*2048. All surfaces are not limited to a power of 2 although this is recommended for logical reasons. This means the SC2 engine does not have specific texture size limits (outside of D3D10 which was used for graphics on Windows), just that developers choose to use 1024*1024 for practical reasons as you can end up with hundreds of units loaded at the same time. In cinematics they went with larger 2048*2048 as they had more control over what was displayed and performance was less of an issue.

You can also use animated textures if you want. This is used by various monitors and displays in the lab missions.

 

[Jicyphex]

Oh, my. A Dr Super Good post. I'm rather tired but I will take the time to address all of these.

Speed? Is LUA closer to Galaxy or to JASS?

Speed? In what way? If anything; I believe that Starcraft 2 was capped at 16 ticks, Dota 2 allows 30 ticks so far (which is up to change afaik). Which means that we can check something 30 times a second which allows us to have smoother operations.

I doubt DotA 2 has anywhere near the RTS AI SC2 has seeing how it is an AoS.

Yes, of course not. Dota 2 is not an RTS after all. But we worked on RTS and I could not complain about technical limitations (too much). Of course it's MUCH better and more accessible to make an RTS game in Starcraft 2 (at the moment).

Not everyone has fibre-optic broadband. To most of us in-game cutsecnes are worth the huge decrease in download time. Also with modern graphic cards the quality is such that only really silly people would get outraged. I mean compare the pre-rendered cutscenes of Final Fantasy 7 with the in-game intermission environment rendered in real time in SC2 and you will see that pre-rendered is not always best.

Point taken (though it's simply a matter of quality for me, I just can do more with things like these than simple In-game camera panning and I don't see how 100 MB make a big difference) but as I said before; you still have the options that are required for a cutscene. If I wanted to make an In-Game cutscene I would probably do the typical procedure which is:
Remove the HUD, add 2 small bars on top and bottom of the screen, lock player input and then work with camera pan towards certain coordinates while NPCs perform a series of orders, animations play, particles show up and models spawn etc.
So that's possible right now. The camera options were introduced with Nian (8 months ago).

One would expect the models of a game where you command 1 hero to look a lot better than a game where you command 400 zerglings against 200 marines.

True, make sense (though Dota also has creeps but nowhere near 400x200... which is still an extreme case but I get your point).

Also SC2 is over 3 years old now where as DotA 2 I do not think is even released.

Dota 2 was officially released on 10th July, 2013 and is currently in the transitioning phase from Source 1 to Source 2 which should be finished around Christmas (Valve-time). Furthermore; I don't see how SC2 being 3 years old matter. It would matter in a static game which is released once and that is the end of it. But Starcraft 2 is an organic game which is constantly updated and patched (HotS brought a lot of new things to the table, I expect LotV to do the same). Therefore; both SC2 and Dota 2 are pretty much on the same level of "aging".

You can also use animated textures if you want.

Which is something that Dota 2 uses as well.
________________


So basically, the conclusion is that Dota 2 is not overall worse than Starcraft 2 for modding. There are some flaws at the moment but since we're in an early Alpha stage, it seems quite obvious that more and more features will be added over time (as they already were being added over the last 2 months with the help of our feedback to Valve).

I'm currently leading 8 projects (of which only 2 are classical remakes like Element TD due to several reasons, we used to have more remakes but I canceled these projects) and there isn't much I can complain about. There are some limitations sometimes but then we request solutions and we get them.

 

[Kino]

The sheer number of maps created in wc3 is mind boggling.
I highly doubt either side has the time to crack down on issues of copyright.

DotA (in wc3) was vastly more popular than any of the "next in popularity" or commonly played maps. (eg. X Hero, Element TD)
Those in turn were more popular than most maps in equally large gulfs.

If a wc3 map maker were to recreate their project in DotA2 (even a midly well known map), chances are no one would even know. Unless of course the visual design was intentionally copying Warcraft or another Blizzard copyright.


On a side note, does anyone know how much of the DotA copyright struggle was due to it being a wc3 mod, and how much was due to warcraft lore characters being in said mod?

 

[Jicyphex]

I highly doubt either side has the time to crack down on issues of copyright.

I'm not talking about just some small time modders. I'm talking about mods that will be approved by Valve because then, trust me, they will find the time to track these people down and at least come up with a C&D as I explained earlier. And without being approved, you won't get A LOT of benefits and it'll be just some small map that some people will play but distribution and hosting will be an issue without official support.

On a side note, does anyone know how much of the DotA copyright struggle was due to it being a wc3 mod, and how much was due to warcraft lore characters being in said mod?

Yes, I answered it in this thread.

 

[Kino]

Yes, I answered it in this thread.

Im sorry, I cant find it >.<

 

[Jicyphex]

Im sorry, I cant find it >.<

‫     

Wrong. Blizzard did not simply give Valve full rights and let them make Alleria Windrunner and the likes. That's already where it begins: Names and design.
Valve is not free to do whatever they want. The hero you mentioned is neither Alleria, nor a Windrunner. Valve was forced to rename both name and title (It's Lyralei, the Windranger). This wasn't at the same moment as well. First they renamed only the hero name since it was obviously Blizzard's property and only after a year, they were forced to rename titles as well. There were multiple other difficulties, Obsidian Destroyer was renamed to Outworld Destroyer and then renamed again to Outworld Devourer. Necrolyte and Doombringer also come to mind.
It's also not only names. Blizzard also pressed Valve to (e.g.) remake Axe's design (such as cutting the ponytail since it was apparently too close to Mogul Khan).
Valve had was obliged before and they will answer to Blizzard again if Blizzard chooses to request another change.

 

[Kino]

Wrong. Blizzard did not simply give Valve full rights and let them make Alleria Windrunner and the likes. That's already where it begins: Names and design.

Which sounds like extremely murky territory.
What if a wc3 modder that is known for creating their own settings (fully outside blizzard IP, with no parts no matter how small include copyright characters) decides to port their project?

In DotA it was way more straightforward, since they had whole characters lifted from the wc universe lore. Heck, the whole game's setting was essentially a wc3 fan-fic


Below is an example.
Say I want to create a DotA map called Bob's Day which is in turn based on Bob's Day, a wc3 map I made.
It has a setting and deals with characters outside the wc universe. But the characters use wc3 model assets to be represented.
If the designs were changed in the DotA edition, would it be a problem?
Or does Blizzard own design copyrights on Bob, because he was originally represented by a warcraft model?


Im sorry if I sound daft, I just wish to make sure everything is as clear as possible.,

 

[Jicyphex]

That is as I said a grey area. You will obviously have to make a completely new model that goes as far as possible. Valve had to remodel some heroes (like Mogul Khan).
Blizzard's EULA is rather strict but it doesn't really say "all content made with our editors is our property now". It's still, as you said, murky territory and it depends on how much interest they will have in pursuing legal actions. But no matter what the details are:
The problem is that it IS a murky and grey territory which makes it a risk to approve these mods. I assume you're not familiar with Valve's Workshop but Valve would rather be on the safe side and implement original IPs rather than approving something like the Pudge Wars right now which not only has no approval from the original creator but also had its birth in Blizzard's domain.
Why risking another legal issue when you can just go safe instead? There are thousands of items submitted to the workshop. Only ~10% (if not less) actually got in the game. Therefore, Valve is certainly not in a hurry to just approve something in order to fill the game.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Speed? In what way? If anything; I believe that Starcraft 2 was capped at 16 ticks, Dota 2 allows 30 ticks so far (which is up to change afaik). Which means that we can check something 30 times a second which allows us to have smoother operations.

Execution performance I was referring to. Galaxy script is executed by a virtual machine so actually performs pretty well (much faster than JASS). Maybe LUA also compiles to virtual machine code however if it does any dynamic name resolution then it will start to perform closer to JASS.

and I don't see how 100 MB make a big difference

About 3-4 minutes to download. It is also a large fraction of the data allowance to many people. The storage space itself was also non-trivial 10 years ago. Is it also fully 1080p at 60 fps? Since that is what in game is rendered at.

The main reason pre-rendered cut scenes are still used in real games is that they can outsource their production to animation companies (how Blizzard makes theirs for SC2/D3) and that they do not need to have the game engine finalized or tailored for maximum quality.

add 2 small bars on top and bottom of the screen

I have no idea why people keep doing that. That is wasting a huge number of pixels that could otherwise be used to show off your cinematic. In the old days it was to convert from 3:4 to wide screen however now with pretty much all displays being wide screen there is no longer a need for such. As far as I am aware it is only used as an interface queue to tell the user "hay, its a cinematic so sit back and watch" since there is no practical reason for it anymore. This is why most modern console games now do full screen 1080p cut scenes.

which is still an extreme case but I get your point

For 1v1 it is, however in 4v4 or some massive 12 player mess not really.

Therefore; both SC2 and Dota 2 are pretty much on the same level of "aging".

SC2's core code is much older than its release date. It still supports Direct3D 9 and has no or little use of Direct3D 11. SC2 was in development long before Valve started DotA 2.

I am pretty sure Valve will implement auto filtering like Blizzard does with SC2. Good luck mentioning "America" or any controversial word in it.

 

[Jicyphex]

I keep interpreting a slight passive aggressive tone or just a cynical undertone in your posts. Maybe that's just me. I'm not saying Dota 2 is perfect right now, far from it. My point is that it's not worse than Starcraft 2 for modding. Both of them are at the same level right now with cons and pros on both sides.

Maybe LUA also compiles to virtual machine code however if it does any dynamic name resolution then it will start to perform closer to JASS.

Yes, Lua is Vscript which is is a virtual machine for scripting that acts as an abstract binding layer between the Source engine and external scripts. Valve has properly introduce Lua to Vscript with Dota 2. Before Dota 2, they have mostly been using Squirrel for Vscript in Alien Swarm, CS:GO, Portal 2 and Left 4 Dead.

As far as I am aware it is only used as an interface queue to tell the user "hay, its a cinematic so sit back and watch" since there is no practical reason for it anymore.

Yes, that is indeed the only reason. I'm not a fan of it either but it's kind of a tradition by now in the game industry.

Is it also fully 1080p at 60 fps? Since that is what in game is rendered at.

1080? Yeah. 60 fps? Not necessarily. We animate our SFMs in 60 FPS but it can be played at 30 fps and no one complains. But as I said; I am just aiming for high quality. We're currently working on a 2-3 minute trailer with SFM. Script, custom assets, custom composed music, the works. That's simply an atmosphere I cannot achieve with simple ingame cutscenes.

 

[David]

I am glad I made such a thread for you to share your thoughts on, but if I try to read everything it'd take me15 minutes of my life.

 

[Wimplow]

Remakes are inadvisable. It depends on how aggressive Blizzard will be and how defensive and careful Valve will handle it. I know with certainty that Valve does not want another legal issue with Blizzard (after that last one that was debated for over a year which ultimately ended in various restrictions on Valve's side).
IP and DMCA is a serious issue and I wouldn't toy around with that. If anything, Valve has shown how serious these things are for them and the previous incidents (such as the recent CS:GO DMCA takedown or faceless' mace in 2012) are just showing their attitude towards intellectual property. These actions end with career-ending consequences, including a permanent ban and discontinuation of revenue share as well as collaboration. Sorry for being the spoilsport here but I highly doubt that Valve would approve any mod with stolen/imported models/assets from another IP.
Now before people start with the infamous "as long as it's not monetized, we're fine" argument that I've been hearing recently; No, this isn't how it works. There's a figure in law called lucrum cessans, essentially saying that you can sue for using illegal methods (like using an IP that doesn't belong to you) to stop others from profiting from their normal operations. Basically missed/lost potential profit. Any company could sue based on these grounds if they wanted to.
The reason why I'm bringing this up is because the majority assumes that we're going to get all of the oldies back in the workshop and approved by Valve. The nostalgia trip is strong right now, people are expecting quality remakes of their childhood games but this is not how it works. I feel like there will be quite some disappointment in the future because a lot of people have this misconception of how all of this works.
You can still make them, especially in the Alpha stage but don't expect to go big with these things. Valve is a big fan of original content and I highly doubt that they will risk approving something that is in a grey area. A lot of these things are grey area.

It gets even worse when it comes to Starcraft 2 and their EULA which is basically saying "all your base are belong to us" in every single way possible.

Oh, well, I've said more than enough. I'm not stopping anyone from remaking the classics since I'm a wc3 veteran myself and had a few ... preferences. I wanted to bring in a lot of high quality remakes to Dota 2 (with all the resources available to me) but I chose to keep it at 2-3 for now (which is for example Element TD with the original author Karawasa).

Source: I've been around in the Beta before the first waves were sent, participated in the current live workshop (cosmetic) and work with various successful artists. I have also been with Dota 2 modding from the moment of its birth and released Fight or Flight, the first Dota 2 standalone mod in March,. I've also founded M.O.D. which works on several projects which also launched D2moddin - the custom mod platform.

Edit: Let me elaborate with another source




Whenever you upload content, you guarantee that it was made by you and it's not IP infringement. I highly doubt that Valve would risk another fight with any company. That's why I'm sure that they'll only be looking at original content and new IPs.

That's fucking stupid, the money grubbing kikes in Blizzard will have to be pretty damn hard pressed to sue me for remaking things they've not only never heard of, but don't even get paid for in the first place. The issue with DOTA 2 was because it was highly associated with warcraft 3, it was extremely lucrative, and the models and lore of the characters were similar enough to their wc3 counter parts that they thought they could get paid.
There is nothing to stop me from changing the name of a game and re-implementing the core mechanics verbatim.
As an example, I highly doubt that if someone or holy-sausage himself, were to remake TAF, they would reuse the Medieval/Fantasy set, despite being a game set in the 20th-21st century.