World of Warcraft vs. Warcraft III

[EggPooPoo]

I found that the whole atmosphere, whether it was the art style, sound design, the world terrain (you'd be surprised how much those affect the gameplay, as an old saying goes: "The sound makes the game look better."); was ultimately BETTER in Warcraft III.

World of Warcraft had some GREAT places, but you cannot deny I think that it was NOT the same staff who made Warcraft III The Frozen Throne. They made the races all a bunch of buffoons, doing dumb dances and overly profane crap to attract hormonal teens lol. Night Elves are ancient warriors, not Snoop Dogg spawns. The way the Orcs look and speak just does NOT match up with the lethal warrior feel they had in Warcraft 3. The Blademaster was a precise warrior, he wasn't immature and a clown like the Orc you play as. Also lack of customization of size was ridiculous, their reason was because "Clothing will stretch and look inproportionate if we allow you to customize the size of your character", while meanwhile in Star Wars galaxies, the wondrous George Lucas had his company make a FULLY customizable height and weight system! Hell you could even customize your facial features...the RP element sucked because I couldn't be lean and sharp like a Blood Mage, I couldn't be rugged and fatter like a Mountain King, I couldn't be an older Orc like the Blademaster or a more fatter faced Far Seer, the fatter Paladin, these all portray different types of warriors of the time and it is a big mistake to not allow for that kind of variation in the game. EVERY DAMN player looks the same!

But yes, Teldrassil, Sen'Jin Village, Elwynn Forest at times, they're cool. But the lack of any NPC's actually DOING ANYTHING like collecting resources, producing goods, conversing with each other, leaving the town, even bloody going to sleep could have been easily done....how can at ALL times of day and night the guy just stand in one spot never eating anything? It makes no sense. For a 90s game like Diablo II it worked, but not in a game I'm paying $15.00 a month for. Ridiculous man LOL. And the dreadfully horrible combat system of WoW...was that supposed to be an emulation of Warcraft III? Because War3 was never that slow, and nor was the target acquisition and combat engine that AWFUL....to think a 2004 game had you able to run completely through another living creature...and they hadn't added collision since like 10 years after. Unbelieveable eh? I still don't know if they even added it to this day!, they had only talked about it.

So dreadful AI on enemies (the raptors just walk around in a triangle or hexagon shape throughout the land waiting to be hacked up), dreadful AI on civilization NPCs like guards etc, HORRIBLE combat system, horrible creature riding physics (Crash Bandicoot 2 for PS1's physics for riding Polar the baby polar bear were more realistic)....I don't remember horses ever being able to be completely still and immediately run at maximum speed, nor have I EVER seen a horse be able to run completely straight and then immediately in a lightning fast jolt turn around to just start running in the other direction. Nor can horses shuffle that well in a circle (when you use A and D).

Also lack of action with your character is a problem, where the Jump key is essentially never used in standard play, among other things like the Roar sound was never used (not sure why) nor the falling to your death sound (I had seen those in the WoW MPQ 10+ year ago).

But what's also annoying is just the depiction of the characters and voice acting is not slick. Where was Matthew Yang King for Illidan Stormrage? He is THE Illidan, they went for some dumb rough gruff kind of Illidan instead of a kind snakelike charming Illidan. The character bosses are not exciting again as the combat engine is terrible, and the lack of interaction for professions is pretty annoying...where you just kind of sit there watching him mine the stuff, cook the food, like how am I an engineer if I just click a darn button and he makes it in 10 seconds?

So these reasons are why I feel WoW did not live up to my expectations.

What are your thoughts?

 

[deepstrasz]

If you have the time and money to waste, do it on WoW. Most ultimately have none and prefer not to live in an interminable virtual world.

Regardless, due to Warcraft III's editor, the multitude of game mechanics outmatches that of WoW's.

To be frank, the atmosphere in WoW was pretty top notch for its time and the music great, at least in the first game. The gameplay, monotonous.
Indeed old games have their atmosphere created more by text and sound, much like you'd be reading a book and imagine yourself. Basically, the lower graphics are a sort of projections which the mind then enhances into unreal things which create a better experience. I for one, get tired by most of the newer games with superfluous graphics. I prefer watching a movie with that instead.

About the dances and whatnot, take them more as fun, Easter Eggs and the like.
The way the orcs look is like overgrown dinosaurs on steroids.
By the way, much stuff you wrote has nothing to do with Warcraft III, customization of character physical features for instance.
I don't know about other games (Elder Scrolls and other similar kinds) but the Gothic series has NPCs that do stuff, move, sleep, react in a manner or another. Of course, it's not the Sims.

About collision, I think it was because of raids getting you killed if you got stuck.

Anyways, a lot of stuff is just your likes and dislikes. They also tried to make their MMORPG somewhat different from others. It's funny you think physics should matter in a cartoony fantasy game.

 

[Sieben]

Yeah the art style and sounds have a great deal to do with the game experience, I would even say they are among the most important aspects of a game. I remember exactly how I felt when I first played my paladin in Elwynn Forest. I'm filled with nostalgia whenever I listen to the music of that area.

World of Warcraft had some GREAT places, but you cannot deny I think that it was NOT the same staff who made Warcraft III The Frozen Throne. They made the races all a bunch of buffoons, doing dumb dances and overly profane crap to attract hormonal teens lol. Night Elves are ancient warriors, not Snoop Dogg spawns. The way the Orcs look and speak just does NOT match up with the lethal warrior feel they had in Warcraft 3. The Blademaster was a precise warrior, he wasn't immature and a clown like the Orc you play as. Also lack of customization of size was ridiculous, their reason was because "Clothing will stretch and look inproportionate if we allow you to customize the size of your character", while meanwhile in Star Wars galaxies, the wondrous George Lucas had his company make a FULLY customizable height and weight system! Hell you could even customize your facial features...the RP element sucked because I couldn't be lean and sharp like a Blood Mage, I couldn't be rugged and fatter like a Mountain King, I couldn't be an older Orc like the Blademaster or a more fatter faced Far Seer, the fatter Paladin, these all portray different types of warriors of the time and it is a big mistake to not allow for that kind of variation in the game. EVERY DAMN player looks the same!

Like Deepstrasz, I think the dances are just here for fun, like easter eggs, nothing more. They are not part of the gameplay nor the lore.

About the Orcs, I dunno, I kinda like their look in WoW. A bit bulky, but not so much, they look like dangerous creatures, like they should be. They're not so different than their WC3 counterparts, methinks. In Reforged however, their bulkiness is much worse: with their tiny head, their proportions are really bad, to my opinion.

I agree with you about the customisation part. It would have been nice to choose the height and weight of our characters, and to have more facial features choices. Yeah, having the beard of a blademaster would have been nice. I would like to be able to play a human mage with the same beard mages have in Warcraft II.
However, we need to remember that the game came out in 2004, and by that time, computers were much less powerful than today and Blizzard had less money and manpower. They didn't know WoW was going to be a huge hit. Characters customisation is something that they should have planned for the future though.

But yes, Teldrassil, Sen'Jin Village, Elwynn Forest at times, they're cool. But the lack of any NPC's actually DOING ANYTHING like collecting resources, producing goods, conversing with each other, leaving the town, even bloody going to sleep could have been easily done....how can at ALL times of day and night the guy just stand in one spot never eating anything? It makes no sense. For a 90s game like Diablo II it worked, but not in a game I'm paying $15.00 a month for. Ridiculous man LOL. And the dreadfully horrible combat system of WoW...was that supposed to be an emulation of Warcraft III? Because War3 was never that slow, and nor was the target acquisition and combat engine that AWFUL....to think a 2004 game had you able to run completely through another living creature...and they hadn't added collision since like 10 years after. Unbelieveable eh? I still don't know if they even added it to this day!, they had only talked about it.

I agree that NPCs all stand still and it would bring a lot to the immersion if they had more activities. Again, 2004 computers and Blizzard's size back then couldn't allow that. But it's something that definitely should have been improved over the years. Well I know they did it for the most recent areas, but old regions such as Elwynn or Durotar still have immobile NPCs, if I'm not mistaken.
About the fact that NPCs don't sleep at night, we need to remember that the game is supposed to be playable from any part of the world, whatever the time. This is why the in-game night is not too dark, so players can play at any time. Useful for players who work late and only play at night, or for French-speaking players from Quebec who want to play with European players, for example. For those players who play at late hours, it would be depressing to only see sleeping NPCs

The combat system in vanilla wasn't so good, I agree. It was pretty awful for me, I used to play a retribution paladin - one of the worst DPS class, with random damage and no crowd control. I still enjoyed myself, because I had no other MMO to compare to ^^ However, WoW has been improved a lot over the years. Every expansion brought gameplay improvements, for combat systems but also for quests. A few years ago, I was offered a one-week free trial, and I really enjoyed playing my paladin, his gameplay had become incredibly dynamic and fun.

About collision, like Deepsrasz said, it's for gameplay purposes. Raids, but I also think having no collision is useful almost everywhere, like in capitals, to avoid assholes to bully other players (like blocking them in a corner, for example) or to prevent some places to be crowded with no way to move (auction houses,...). Maybe collisions could have been deactivated in some critical areas, and activated elsewhere, especially in pvp areas?

Also lack of action with your character is a problem, where the Jump key is essentially never used in standard play

I totally agree, it would have been nice if the gameplay wasn't based only on combats, but also on some actions such as jumping on some platforms and whatnot. It would bring diversity.
And it was pretty annoying to see some players jumping around endlessly, it kills the immersion.


My general opinion about WoW vanilla is that it was an incredible game back then, and it was a good sequel to Warcraft III. It wasn't very good for its gameplay, especially the combat system. But it was extremely satisfying to walk around the world I had been so fond of for years.
What I liked the most about WoW vanilla is that everything was possible. I mean, after TFT, we left the world of Warcraft in a state where everything had been changed, all the geopolitics were disrupted after the events of TFT:

• The Forsaken were a new force in Lordaeron
• Orcs were trying to settle in Kalimdor and build a new home, with all the dangers around, but with the aid of Trolls and Taurens
• Night Elves were busy healing the wounds of their forests, while the formerly asleep druids had to find their place in this world
• Humans from Stormwind and Dwarves and Gnomes from Ironforge had to deal with new dangers (the Defias, the Dark Iron, Blackrock Spire...), while the humans led by Jaina tryied to establish a new settlement in Kalimdor (a great place for humans to set foot on that continent)
• Kalimdor was a new continent with totally unknown regions and dangers. The Horde and the Alliance could explore it and go treasure hunting, while Night Elves could rediscover their former towns, before the Sundering.

Etc! So we have a world which is pretty much stablised, new lands were discovered and everyone tries to rebuild their civilisation (NE,...) or strengthen their position (Orcs, Forsaken, Humans of Theramore). All these renewed geopolitics were a formidable setting for a MMORPG where everyone can have a role, can find their place in this world.
We could play a character who wasn't a hero, just a random traveller, warrior, or whatever, who did some deeds and accepted a few jobs, without interfering too much with the great events and plots.
That was vanilla, where everything was possible. I liked vanilla because I knew the game and the world could still be improved and extended, and the game was quite faithful to the lore of the previous games (not too many retcons, and only a few things that bothered me, such as the Forsaken joining the Horde).

Afterwards, the game tended to be about big events and famous characters all the time, and your character was always seen as a powerful hero wherever he or she went. The atmosphere was much different. Also, retcons and weird lore choices (Blood Elves in the Horde? Tauren and gnome death knights?...) began to increase, so I lost interest in the game, despite the gameplay becoming more and more interesting.