Upstream v0.7.1

This bundle is marked as approved. It works and satisfies the submission rules.
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General Information:
-1v1
-160x128 Size


Buildings:
-6 Gold Mines
-2 Mercenary Camps
-2 Goblin Shops
-2 Goblin Laboratories
-1 Tavern

Camps:
-8 Green camps
-9 Orange camps
-4 Red camps

Camps:
-8 Green camps
-12 Orange camps
-1 Red camp

Description:
Ships travel from far to this small town village. A place where traders come to exchange for freshly chopped timber. This river serves as a spot for logging activity, but also attracts nearby monsters in search of food.

Dev. Comment:
This map was designed to be asymmetric in design, but symmetric in layout. I wanted to piece together a map with a lot of waterfalls, but they look really lame when used over and over again in a symmetric setting. So i wanted to make a competitive map that was interesting to look at.

Testers:
N/A

Changelog:

-More green camps
-Moved expo so it's easier to harass
-Changed drop table to avoid multiplicates where possible
-Made the center red camp harder (22 to 25).


-Changed goblin shop to drop charged 3+125 heal instead of perm3+tome2.
-Remove some unused space in terrain
-Tweaked some passages to have equal spacing on both sides (chokes).


-Removed 4 and 9 camp around base.
-Relevelled camps, see overview.
-Widened base entry.
-Removed chokes near center goblin shop.



-Reduced goblin lab to level 14 from 17. Changed drop to C3 from P4.
-Reduced remote shop to level 14 from 18. Changed drop to P3+T2.

-Added two new level 6 green camps in middle. P1 drop.
-Lowered expo to level 15 from 16.


-Reduced level of expansion by 1.
-Changed the closest shop to have kobolds and not golem.
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Contents

Upstream v0.8 (Map)

Reviews
mafe
Ok, very creative idea, both in terms of gameplay and visual design. If you zoom out and rotate the map, is does not look like all distance are fully symmetric, but the differences between the starting positions are negligible. In terms of gameplay...

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 60
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
16,996
how u ask ? lol ? u eaven play meele ? goblin shops never have creeps that are awake at night so u can go there and buy boots and dust. this is rly importand to balance of the game
Ah, I thought you meant laboratories. Yeah, I guess it's fair since night elves can hide during the night and well the Blademaster can become invisible anytime :D
 

mafe

Map Reviewer
Level 23
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
869
Ok, very creative idea, both in terms of gameplay and visual design. If you zoom out and rotate the map, is does not look like all distance are fully symmetric, but the differences between the starting positions are negligible.
In terms of gameplay:
-It seems to me that most creepspots that can be taken in the first minutes of game are located close to the main bases? There doesnt seem to be a contested/neutral creepspot int he more central parts of the map that can realisitically be taken with the an army of an archmage and 3 footies (for example) without putting yourself in a big risk.
-Near the 2-2 trolls right next to main bases, it is possible to build an AoW at the blue spawn location, but not at red. Just a small difference, but no reason to keep it that way.
-The map appears to be larger than it actually is to me. Still, it is larger than usual.
-In particular, i like the placement of the red camp and the locations of the shops.

So no real issues and some good fresh stuff. Map approved.

(And at some point, I should really learn how the "different water level" thing works.)
 
Level 24
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
2,562
Level 4 camp with trolls are for 2nd/3rd hero solo xp. If you're creeping them early you're not being greedy enough.

mafe said:
(And at some point, I should really learn how the "different water level" thing works.)
From reddit thread said:
The water is indeed placed at different heights. It's an advanced world editor trick that few people know about because the setup is rather complicated and time demanding. You can set it up like this: 1# Disable "enforce water height". 2# Use raise height tool and make several flat plateus. 3# Place a +1 level cliff and +2 level cliff next to each other. 4# Place shallow water on the +1 part. 5# You can now make more water at that height. 6# Lowering terrain creates deep water in that area. 7# Never ever enable "enforce water height" as it will reset your progress
 
Level 16
Joined
Jan 29, 2017
Messages
53
I like the idea of creating an improved EI very much because I think EI is a weak spot in the mappool that urges to be replaced at some point. Though, the middle area of your map needs a major overhaul for the map to become competitively viable. Your approach of blocking the middle with a ~8x8 grid cells unpassable area has way too many downsides:
  • it separates the map into two parts that are too safe for each player to creep up their heroes to lvl 3 without being pressured
  • the opponent expansion is basically immune to harrass due to the huge distances
  • the middle area has basically no attractive midgame objective that reward the active/aggressive player
  • both parts of the map are only connected by two paths which makes it way too easy to react on enemy attacks with just 2 wisps or 2 proxy farms being enough for full map control.
Overall, the player that doesn't leave his part of the map just gets rewarded too much, resulting in completely stale games.

177415-d828b921754f5d23971221b11d3e366f.jpg
 
Level 24
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
2,562
@Kaer
Thank you, that's valueable feedback.
I'll see what i can do.
Some of the problems might be inherent with the map layout and difficult to fix, but i'll see what i can do.

Looking at something like:
-Red to lvl 21
-Clear trees on path A, unclog chokes.
-Remove 4 and 9 green camp.
-Path B shop lvl 12? Could make it more appealing to travel away from base early on.
 

mafe

Map Reviewer
Level 23
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
869
The new version looks very good to me. I also tend to agree about the blocked middle.

About earlygame creeping: The murlocs and (to a lesser extent) the 3-3-3 troll/ogre spot are potential targets for militia creeping, but rather inconvenient for AoW-creeping. Imho the both AoW- and mlitia-creeping should usually be able to take the same spots.
 
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