Torn Mountain

[mafe]

Hi Knecht, was hoping you would continue making melee maps. This one is another awesome look. I would prefer to repace the red dragons with black dragons, as iirc black dragons are much more of a destructive force in the lore than their red relatives, so they might fit the theme of the map better.
Here are some possible improvements for gameplay:
-I agree that the map is too linear. I believe you can without problems add a path from near the ghost/voidwalker spot towards the expansion.
-You might also add path north of the vulcano. As this would be a very short connection between the main bases, you could consider blocking it by destructable rocks. I'm normally not a fan of these, but here they might actually make sense both from a gameplay and a theme perspective.
-As long as the map is linear, I believe it would be better not to use different levels along the main linear path, as this could further make the map more stale. Especially assaulting a base that is on higher ground can be very difficult. Instead, I would rather lower the path between the vulcano and the wraith. Also, I would keep the tavern on the standard cliff level and instead put the creeps south of it on a higher (or lower) level. This whole area near the tavern also looks quite narrow to me.
-Please do not have creeps with possession drop items (if it uses possesion, the item is gone). Better not have possession creeps at all, especially on earlygame creep spot.
-Nightelves would like a tree near tavern and labs for wisps.
-No shop means that the map is not suited for highlevel gameplay, as this automatically nerfs the blademaster.

hi @Knecht frohes neues Jahr!
I think the new version is much improved. The rushing distance is quite short now thought, but imho within acceptable limits. A few notes about items:
-A lvl 1 powerup for the 3xlvl3 lizards is not enough. I would use w lvl1 permanent + lvl1 powerup here.
-You could do the same for these 3xlvl3 deceivers. Curse can be really, really annoying in the earlygame and introduces luckbased aspects. I would be careful with these, even thought they fit the tileset well. Maybe you can use the fallen priests instead of some bandits and swap 1-2 of these deceivers for rogues.
-To make the islands more attractive, I would add a powerup (maybe even lvl2) to the creeps there and upgrade the lvl3 item to lvl 4.
-I think any lvl3 or higher item usually comes with a powerup on the same spot usually. I just like tomes
-That death revenant.... I see a few issues with its abilites: Death coil doesnt damage undead, so the other three races will take much more damage here. It's other two skills may or may not summon units, which can increase the amount of exp given by the spot be quite a bit. It could be abused, but it might also be just theorycraft and not actually relevant ingame.

 

[Knecht]

@twojstaryjakcie I've only seen some images of it, but I really liked the artwork from what I've seen. The highly detailed lineart kinda reminded me of Oskar Ed (made by Branko Jelinek). It might not be a high fantasy like Berserk but it's worth a read. I should really give Berserk a try someday as I'm a comic enthusiast myself

@mafe Wie geht's, alter good to see you. It's always nice to hear your words of advice.
I tried to change some things, hopefully for better, but I'll keep the red dragons as they look more natural when put together with the lizards. I also removed the Possesion creeps, though I don't find anything bad in them dropping the item, it just needs a little more skill and strategy when camping, otherwise you don't get the loot.
Btw, there were trees by the labs and tavern, they just looked like the dry bushes thx to some PgDn action but I changed them into normal trees as it was clearly confusing.

@Ragnaros17 Yeaaah, I've already fixed some of those issues. The thing with the doodads is, that I wanted to convey the feeling of a landscape destroyed by the sudden eruption of the mountain - something like the Burning Steppes or Searing Gorge in WoW. Burned down houses, trees etc. I would call this map filler content as it was a side project while I was planning another map with an interesting mechanic (but that will be probably uploaded in early February due to some university stuff)

Danke, dir auch @mafe
I fixed the drops, changed the creeps. The deceiver camp feels now more welcoming as do the islands (though I doubt anyone will see them in play). I let the death revenant be as he is - the undead might have the advantage of not getting coiled but the map offers no critters and the whole mid is "corpseless".

The map feels really bland imo and there's no way to fix it as I see it. Hopefully the next map will work better (Arrr )

@Ragnaros17 Yes, that's why I moved on to another map maybe someday in the future when there is more time.

 

[WolfFarkas]

Very nice map, I really like what you did.

1)Loot could be better
About the loot when you use random power up level 2, there is a chance to get the experience book to much and ....
so many people don´t use it or you can set the 3 books level 2 manually and exclude the experience book.
Because except the big dragon lair creep, the others nobody has level 2 power up. And consider that maybe this map will be played ignoring the dragon thing, so no book level 2 at all.

2)More wood
When you put the goblin lab, you are making a pact with the devil, that means you have to put a lot of wood, I always buy the goblin machine and clean the map of wood.
When I know the map doesn´t have that much wood (many cases) I don´t put the goblin lab at all.

3)Linear map
You can always redesing this thing , make conections between the expandings (send the dragon lair to the abyss since is pretty much kamikaze for the middle game) and wala a second path

4)Dragon Lair
I sugest you the dragon lair for 4 player melee maps or 6 player melee mapes where going to a lelvel 31 all air creep is not insane and the dragon unit level 10, its unbalance is reduced when many players are playing and coperating each others.
Sugestion put a Marketplace

5) No goblin markets
Well there are many areas to put a market if you wish to.

6) You can build towers near the tavern and on highground, intentional?
the problem is on highground, that could lead to tower rush strategy, linear map 1 way of attack, dominate the middle = to dominate half map
don´t let him use the tavern to resurrect or to buy second tavern hero

7) Banshee loot
, well the banshee tend to use posession and steal a unit, if they do no loot and thats not that good

8) Doodads, the enviroment is cool, but this is a 128x96 map, and it only has 1896 doodads, it can have more, I know is hard to decorate a dungeon tileset but there are many things that fit with this terrain such the sunken ruins mushrooms, the outland plants, remember the felwood black vines they fit almost anywhere, you can take the ahenvale mushrooms or the spider eggs change color to red, and wala red lizard eggs
and well you can always put an archway with skulls (Page up botton) , what I mean is many things can be done
A dungeon map can be as beauty as an Ashenvale is just know what to do.

9) Maybe gold in expading goldmines could be different (better defended + more hard to reach = better rewarded) The island expantions could have more gold because the 2 reasons I mentioned

I think I rate 3/5 in this state,
this map has a lot of potential, it can be improved and it can reach the 5/5

my sugestion is don´t restrain yourself with the map you got, I hope something of what I said can help you to improve it, but well many things have already been said by mafe

again very nice map
good luck and see ya

 

[WolfFarkas]

Danke, dir auch @mafe
I fixed the drops, changed the creeps. The deceiver camp feels now more welcoming as do the islands (though I doubt anyone will see them in play). I let the death revenant be as he is - the undead might have the advantage of not getting coiled but the map offers no critters and the whole mid is "corpseless".

The map feels really bland imo and there's no way to fix it as I see it. Hopefully the next map will work better (Arrr )

I know a very good way to fix a map when you think it is un-fixable, remade it from 0, I did it with 3 maps of mine, and fixed tons of things.
Sometimes is more faster and fun to fix from 0, than fix tons of things that implies the terraining desing.

 

[twojstaryjakcie]

Great map, looks good, plays well and the originality is also a big plus, though there are some minor issues that could easily be taken care of.

First of all, the Lizard camp at the Goblin Merchant can be exploited by your average Blademaster player - it can be creeped with a BM and one Grunt without losing much (~200) hp and it has a 25% chance to drop a Wand of Lightning Shield which is incredibly powerful early on (put it on a Grunt and see the Human base burn/be electrocuted to death). Either removing the WoLS or increasing the camp's difficulty would probably do the trick.

I really appreciate the fact that there are trees for NE near both Laboratories and the Tavern along with bulding space for Human farms. However, while the eastern Goblin Laboratory allows Orc players to place a Burrow nearby, the western one doesn't. Also, there is only one spot where an Orc Burrow can be placed near the Tavern, there could be one on both sides of that Tavern - you could remove a little bit of unbuildable terrain to make it possible for Orc to also have constant access to the Tavern and Laboratories (that's really not a big issue, though it'd be nice to see Orc having the option of doing what NE and Humans can do, even if it means building a more costly Burrow).

I feel like there are a bit too many camps which drop Level 1 Permanent items. They don't have too much of an impact on the game itself and players might soon find the necessity of constantly having to manage their inventory for more Cloaks of Shadows frustrating - maybe one or two camps could drop Level 1/2 Books instead (but not the experience one).

The visuals of the map are amazing. I'm really impressed by the simple, yet very clever use of waterfalls as fiery lava streams, the well implemented natural bridges, the innovative idea of a burnt-down area and, of course, the volcano itself. I looked at it from some lower angles and along with some reddish sky, it looks ------- amazing, an incredibly well made object.


Apart from the minor issues I mentioned before, I think that this map, apart from being balanced, is both visually stunning and original.