The.. fantasy world clichés

[Pharaoh_]

Hi,

some time ago I had posted a topic about RPG and MMORPG clichés and now I've found a pretty good demonstration of repeated lore facts in fantasy settings (that range from books to games). I really incline you to watch the videos, as I have seen some of our maps mostly developing a moderate gameplay and a plain, transparent story line.

(I don't condone every argument, since it is almost inevitable for a story to encompass such elements, but this is the point: why our imagination is dry and infertile)

P.S. He is irritatingly passionate at times, but the dimension and structure of his remarks are well-organized.

I particularly liked his point "Europe Lite", for pretty much copying the entire society of medieval Europe (...) this is fantasy; that means we have the creative license to create our own world. (...) It's supposed to be the most adaptive, the most creative.

 

[Eagle XI]

This site is a goldmine when it comes down to researching any cliché:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StandardFantasySetting

 

[Pharaoh_]

That's interesting, Eagle XI, thanks.

P.S. I forgot to quote another point, That is the dream of a fantasy writer, to create what could not possibly be made through science (...) that is the point of fantasy, to create what nothing else can make. (I didn't include the "or in the future" part that he says after "through science", cause then we completely belittle science fiction).

 

[Rui]

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/medivhs-tower-411/world-will-mine-218709/

He could keep the same voice tone over the videos, the yelling is annoying T.T

What is Mary Sue character though? o.o He didn't explain.

 

[Pharaoh_]

He could keep the same voice tone over the videos, the yelling is annoying T.T

What is Mary Sue character though? o.o He didn't explain.

1) I agree!

2) I didn't bother to Google her, really. She's a character, I guess. He kind of gave certain traits, though, such as pure evil or pure good (which is commonly someone helpless - there was another article also pointing out this, e.g. the lame example of Barbie stories, where she is always incapable of standing up to the threats). At the same time, a character that disobeys and completely ignores the status quo, the vows & the rules (social and religious), if they are pure evil (which goes back to his first point, where pure evil is described or implied as someone wanting to take over the world or bring death and destruction for no reason whatsoever).

 

[Gilles]

I really don't mind fantasy cliches. I really enjoy the genre and I enjoy more creative universes and more historic ones. Cliches are cliches for a reason, and I would argue it's because they work well.

 

[Rui]

Yeah, I was about to say just that, although he is a bit right on them being annoying. For example, the villain who's out for world domination. It's really formulaic and, even though I've appreciated a few good shows where it's used (old ones, though, so they've got an excuse), it does get a bit tiresome.

 

[Arcisal]

Deus Ex Machina.

Several incredibly popular TV and book series are guilty of this. Avatar: The Last Airbender for one, Mass Effect 3 for games as well. In a dire situation? Here, we'll send you a god/superpower/previously unknown sacred relic to help you defeat the enemy. Shadowmourne is to a lesser extent, another example of this.

I also hate how they generalize women to be so one-dimensional. There's always a "bad" girl who disobeys rules and goes against the norm. Then there's the spineless "good" girl who can't stand up for anyone, let alone herself, and always seems to get herself into trouble.

 

[Pharaoh_]

Or races hidden somewhere in the depths of the world and are suddenly coming on the surface to assist a weak faction.
Or even souls illustrated to leave the body as peaceful entities, but if they are summoned back after <ridiculously many millennia> they are always corrupted, evil ghosts.

I watched Heavenly Sword today, there is a compilation video on YouTube that lasts 1 hour and 20 minutes. Although Nariko is the type of female character that I find inspiring, she was so similar to Maiev.

 

[Gilles]

Yeah, I was about to say just that, although he is a bit right on them being annoying. For example, the villain who's out for world domination. It's really formulaic and, even though I've appreciated a few good shows where it's used (old ones, though, so they've got an excuse), it does get a bit tiresome.

Yeah I agree. Story plots can get formulaic and tired out, but the worlds and canon don't bother me when they're cliche.

 

[Pharaoh_]

New one! I really liked his comment about the Barbarian class (it didn't occur to me in the past and it makes a lot of sense).

 

[takakenji]

immortal elves

 

[Gilles]

I watched the last video. I totally disagree. People call themselves half-Asian (or whatever they are) all the time. Also halfling is a name other races use, not halflings themselves (at least in Middle Earth) so I have no problem with it.

Barbarian is understandable, but again it's a name given to people by other people. It also describes the type of person they are to the player. Granted most RPGs don't give barbarians very barbaric personalities.

 

[Chaosy]

I agree 100% with him, barbarian is such a stupid name.

edit:
@half-x
in this time of age someone can say I am half-asian or whatever no one would give a fuck. However you could get killed by saying I am half-french in germany or w/e 500 years ago.

 

[Kino]

AFAIK, the gripe most people have with stock/overused characters is not that they are inherently bad, but they give the author/creator an excuse to not flesh out of the character and their motives.

If one could give a sensible reason for why X villain wants world domination, I don't think it would be a bad thing. However using the X villain wants world domination trope often ends up being just a dead end. That being X is evil, X wants world, end of story.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Tropes are just mere tools, not meant to be hated for their pure existance. In fact, when played right, tropes can give your story a lot more impact.

Bit if I had to name a few tropes I really dislike in fantasy, then it's these:

- the magician or archer type character on artworks is always a girl ... because women obviously don't do frontline fighting
- when just for the dramatic effect a certain established mechanic of the world gets totally ignored for no reason (the infamous Aeris accident in FF7, when SUDDENLY, nobody remembers there are phoenix downs)
- "the wizard was it" ... seriously, I don't mind unrealistic settings. I LOVE fantasy. But what I hate is when things are inconsistent and totally defy the internal logic of a story
- bland female characters. Seriously, I'm possibly the last one who would point the finger at people who display their female characters in sexy dresses or half naked. Heck, I'm even fine with the infamous boob-plate. But what I can't stand is if a female character is CHARACTERIZED as a mere moe-blob or waifu-like sex toy without any personality. Seriously, story writers; don't be so fucking lazy!

 

[Chaosy]

- the magician or archer type character on artworks is always a girl ... because women obviously don't do frontline fighting

It's sad that you can't modify such things in RPG creation, the male mages are body builders and the female warriors are thin and slim. This kinda forces one to play female/male. Unless you want too look like Purge's mage @wow.

 

[Gilles]

It's sad that you can't modify such things in RPG creation, the male mages are body builders and the female warriors are thin and slim. This kinda forces one to play female/male. Unless you want too look like Purge's mage @wow.

Agreed. Playing Divinity: Original Sin (amazing game btw) right now, and this is exactly what my friend and I were complaining about.

 

[Eagle XI]

What i hate is when an RPG looks promising but somewhere in the middle turns into the "ur the only one on earth left to rescue the world/system/universe!11!1", when that occurs in a open-world type RPG i cease to give a flying damn about storyline and went full on exploration before continuing the plot any further. Not rescuing, not giving a damn!

 

[Nuclear]

In medieval setting RPGs people should be dirty, starved and generally miserable. Stop with the knights in shining armors and all that bullshit.

 

[Gilles]

I don't think people were just miserable in the middle-ages.
Or starved really. Europe was probably one of the best places to live in the middle-ages.
Science, health care, and education were all on the rise.

But yeah, definitely dirtier. And smelly.

 

[nhs325]

Cliches...... yeah, still laughing after reading the thread's name.
a fantasy world where you could imagine everything you want, and BAM! cliches.
so, what about non-cliches fantasies books/movies/games?
the Percy Jackson book franchies seems to nail it.

 

[Nuclear]

I don't think people were just miserable in the middle-ages.
Or starved really. Europe was probably one of the best places to live in the middle-ages.
Science, health care, and education were all on the rise.

But yeah, definitely dirtier. And smelly.

I tried looking up some info on medieval living standards, but sadly I only found bullshit medieval blogs with questionable information. Well I think it was certainly different from what we see in many movies and games.

This reminds me of the fact that in television, every character in every show has snow white teeth. Even the dirtiest fucking bum has pearls for teeth, instantly breaks the immersion and makes me irritated.

 

[Gilles]

This reminds me of the fact that in television, every character in every show has snow white teeth. Even the dirtiest fucking bum has pearls for teeth, instantly breaks the immersion and makes me irritated.

Yeah this bothers me too. Not so much on kings and whatnot, but definitely when they're supposed to be dirty peasants.

 

[Rui]

I see where you're going with that, but I reckon I wouldn't pass on the shining white teeth

 

[Pharaoh_]

the Percy Jackson book franchies seems to nail it.

Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but a) the chosen one and descendant of a god, b) Greek mythology, c) ancient world blending with the contemporary one (The Mummy trilogy, off the top of my head); fantasy blending with the regular (Harry Potter, Twilight, etc.). In what way is it creative?