Terraining Contest #15 - Results

[Celaquil]

Feelings/Emotions
Brace yourselves, as we embrace in a big emotional hug and secrete sticky pink goo; it's time for a feelings contest!


Participants are to create a terrain that shows or captures an emotion/feeling, e.g. love, happiness, loneliness, anger, etc.

Gilles Judging

Some notes about the way that I judge.
1. I take creativity to be exclusive to the theme. You can be as creative as you want to, but if I don't see how it relates, it doesn't really help at all.
2. I am not as up-to-date with terraining and methods used. I can't always tell what models and techniques were used. Hopefully that doesn't hurt anyone in Detail or Technique.
3. Relating to 2, I don't judge heavily on technique and detail. You could make the most difficult terrain, but if it isn't as appealing as another it probably won't do as well. This doesn't mean I disregard how difficult something might have been. I would give higher points to a terrain that looks as good and is more complex/harder to make.
4. This should have been 1. Whatever. I do not judge on a bell curve. That means I judge each terrain separate from one another based on its own merits.
5. I have little time. I realllllly wish I could give you guys more feedback (next time I’ll do it in the thread as you post WIPs). Also these take me a long time to do; I give my scores serious thought. This also means that I antagonize over every rating. I always feel I haven’t been as fair as I should be, so believe me that I would take any concerns over my judging to heart.
6. On that note, I tried to be kind, complimentary, and constructive. I also tried to be honest. If I came across harsh, it was not intended, and I meant to be helpful. Sorry.

Creativity	Excellent job here. It definitely has a sense of foreboding and death. I would assume fear is the emotion most vivid here. Excellent use of fog and sky.	14/15
Detail	Good use of doodads. Grass/brush was used well to create the forest floor, and props (everything that isn't nature) were not overused or misplaced, except for what I am assuming is a gargoyle in front of the moon. If it is or isn't, it takes away from the terrain.	11/15
Technique	While none of the techniques used were very difficult or creative, they were used well.	12/15
Aesthetics	While the terrain meats the theme very well and is good in the other two categories, I didn't find it as strong aesthetically. It's a good terrain overall, but not a great one. There simply isn't a whole lot going on here.	10/15
Total	47

Creativity	It's very hard to tell what emotion the terrainer was going for. I got a sense of longing. Almost a memory one remembers fondly. The leaves falling really helped here.	9/15
Detail	There seems to only be a handful of doodads used in this terrain, and not to great effect. End of the world might not be visible, but one can assume it exists directly behind those hills. Better use of depth of field is needed. As stated, the leaves falling was an excellent touch.	6/15
Technique	Not a lot of techniques here. Tile variation is present, which is good, but it could be better. Fog, sky, and lighting are all fairly basic as well.	5/15
Aesthetics	I gotta say, I really like those leaves.	7/15
Total	27

Creativity	There really isn't much emotion going on here.	3/15
Detail	I can definitely see some knowledge of doodad placement. Doodads are being clumped around each other, and each one seems to be placed with purpose.	5/15
Technique	One of the things that really hinders this terrain is the angle. It's difficult use techniques well when there is so little space.	3/15
Aesthetics	The use of doodads is the strongest point in this terrain. The biggest improvement would be to find a better camera angle and zoom out so the textures don't stretch.	6/15
Total	17

Creativity	There seems to be multiple emotions here. I felt conflicted on what I should feel. There seems to be sadness with the man, but a sense of hope and joy with the sunrise. While this could be seen a more complex use of emotions, I didn't feel the execution (if it was intended) was well done. Overall I thought the multiple emotions took away from either one rather than add something new.	7/15
Detail	Strong use of doodads, especially the use of the man.	11/15
Technique	Very good techniques used. Strong depth of field, good lighting, and while tile variation wasn't prominent, doodads took it's place well.	12/15
Aesthetics	It's tough to give this terrain a low creativity because it is a good terrain, it simply didn't meet the theme as well.	11/15
Total	41

Creativity	There really isn’t any emotion conveyed here.	3/15
Detail	Some good use of doodads, it’s a detailed environment, but I find the swords an odd touch. As well I find it slightly busy and unfocused.	9/15
Technique	Some good lighting is used, but other than that not much is present.	8/15
Aesthetics	It’s a decent terrain, but it is slightly unfocused and doesn’t meet the theme well.	9/15
Total	29

Creativity	The sense of romance and love is almost overwhelming. Awesome job with the theme.	15/15
Detail	Great use of colour, and doodads are used well. The pond is a beautiful touch.	13/15
Technique	Really good lighting and background. The use of reflections is perfect. While this terrain doesn’t have a particularly difficult technique used, it’s all done really well.	12/15
Aesthetics	It’s simply gorgeous. My favorite part is the background. It’s subtle but a perfect complement to the foreground. No idea how it was created, but it’s great.	14/15
Total	54

Creativity	The sunrise gives this terrain a sense of peace and perhaps order, but the theme was the weakest point in this terrain.	8/15
Detail	Amazing detail. The city is very well built and the use of doodads on the foreground is even really well done.	15/15
Technique	I was conflicted here. I really don’t understand all the techniques used here, and I’m going to give toby the benefit of the doubt and allow this terrain. I do have reservations about it, but since I don’t understand it and no one else mentioned it, I’m going to accept all the model work used. Therefore, amazing job again. The shadows and mountain background really stand out here.	15/15
Aesthetics	It’s a really good looking terrain, however it almost doesn’t look like wc3 anymore. Especially the foreground.	13/15
Total	51

Creativity	While I do get a sense of loneliness, it strikes me like the cubes have each other. I think one cube would have met the theme better.	9/15
Detail	Great detail. The cubes are really creative, the building is very well constructed (by cubes, nice touch), and the environment is very natural looking (which is good).	14/15
Technique	Lighting is excellent, especially on the building. The background has solid touches of doodads that really gives the viewer the sense that the landscape continues past what we see, which is something wc3 often struggles to do.	14/15
Aesthetics	I really like this terrain, although I still don’t know what to think or feel about it. Really tough one to judge.	13/15
Total	50

Creativity	Fairly strong sense of forboding here, more so than tension.	11/15
Detail	Good detail, although I find the corpses off somehow. I think they need to be blended in a little more into the rocks. Hard to describe.	13/15
Technique	Some good techniques used (tile variation, sky) but I find the lighting to be off. There I go being vague again with this terrain. I’m having hard time nailing down what bothers me about it. Sorry man. The eclipse is a really nice touch.	12/15
Aesthetics	A good terrain. The foreground is especially well done.	11/15
Total	47

2-P Judging

fladdermasken

Creativity 14/15
Very original idea. The best part about it is that the loneliness feel doesn't get thrown in your face right away, it takes a bit to notice it but it's definitely there and portrayed very well.
I tihnk the feel could have been stronger if the eye was further to the right side and/or if it looked up to one of the cubes.

Detail 13/15
The temple could have used some more love. Why isn't the entrance (and the window) square-shaped as well? Could have kept everything in cube form.
And while grassy landscapes can look to bloated very fast, some parts of the ground could have used a bit more variation.
Very well thought out tree placement.

Technique 12/15
Good sky work and a great lensflare effect. I'm not sure if it's because of the lighting or a blurry grass model but parts of the ground look off/unpretty.
It *could* have used another layer of mountains for more depth but it's not a must in my opinion.

Aesthetics 13/15


Chaos.

Creativity 15/15
Considering the theme, I'm very surprised that I diidn't see more surrealistic terrains. Very simple, very clever. and it portrays the theme perfectly.

Detail 10/15
Detail is a hard one for a picture that lives off its simplicity.
The reflection is a nice touch. The ground is too flat and the trees could have been more different.
The background would have also been a place to add some more detail.

Technique 8/15
Two major problems. The background is boring and not up to par with the rest of the terrain. The rays coming through the trees are questionable at best and the lensflare is badly executed.

Aesthetics 11/15


Keiji

Creativity 11/15
Certainly not a place I want to be in. It's definitely a very tense scene and kind of threatening, but not too much, which is a good thing my book.
So while the theme was captured very well I have to say that the whole skulls and a hanging person stuff is not a brand new idea.

Detail 11/15
The amount of details is very good, but it lacks variety, especially the midground (the ship-areaand the area under the hanging man). Some very small details in the foreground would have been a nice addition as well.

Technique 14/15
A close to perfect execution. There's pretty much nothing that I find wrong in the picture. A minor thing would be the ground near the ship that seems to be brighter than it should be.
But that's about it. The sky and the transitions between its different parts is absolutely amazing. The moon looked a bit weird at first but it does a fantastic job and is a huge plus to the overall picture.

Aesthetics 13/15


sigelang

Creativity 8/15
Scary, could be straight out of a nightmare in a way. But I don't know if it's just me but those skeletons sticking out of the ground look funny. Which is somewhat bad because it ruins the scary feeling the longer you look at the picture.
A dark forest with skeletons is also not the pinnacle of creativity.

Detail 8/15
The amount of details is okay since it doesn't need a lot. The gargoyle is a nice touch.
The sky could have been spiced up a bit and a few more rocks or branches, especially farer in the back would have been nice, it looks rather empty in the back.
Some more different details like the fence are lacking.

Technique 10/15
You would expect more trees in a forest like this, as in the horizon would be blocked by trees. The only explanation for your picture would be that it's at the edge of the forest which again makes you question why it's so dark. It also lacks depth now because the horizon is so close (edge of the world).
It's not a very complicated terrain but it was executed well and has only minor flaws besides the point stated above.

Aesthetics 9/15


tobyfat50

Creativity 6/15
One of the entries where I had to take a look at the post to make sure which emotion is being shown, which is not a good sign.
The village at dusk/sunset thing can definitely work, but I guess it's usually better to go for a small, cozy village instead of a drawn out village with a huge landscape.
The idea is there and it's okay but other entries are doing a better job at conveying an emotion.

Detail 13/15
The foreground could use some small (smaller than the baskets) details. The horse and wagon the bridge is so cool, some more details like that throughout the village would have been great.
Especially the background is already very detailed though.

Technique 13/15
The only big problem is the railing. You have like 4 different stone textures just in the foreground and they fit more or less together but the one from the railing clashes hard.
The background could use a bit more color variation to add some contrast.
Besides that it's stunning. The effort put into the picture and especially the background is just great. Love the shadow work in the foreground.

Aesthetics 15/15


Edge45

Creativity 8/15
Solid. The picutre conveys the emotion very well on the other hand is that about the oldest idea in the book. It certainly hits the theme though which is the most important thing.

Detail 7/15
Details are sparse, especially unnatural ones. It's okay on the plant side of things. And the sky is too monotonous.

Technique 7/15
The right side is too empty or the left side is too cluttered, pick one. The sun effect is nice. The gorund lacks tile variiation and is too flat. Not a fan of that rock path in front of the house, the textures are very stretched. It also looks like the house is open and that there's nothing inside.
I like the contrast of the dark branch on the top right and the bright sun on the top left, there should have been more play with brightness in the picture!

Aesthetics 8/15


rushing_epic

Creativity 3/15
One of the entries where I had to take a look at the post to make sure which emotion is being shown, which is not a good sign.
I kinda see how it's supposed to be sadness, there are some "sad" elements like rain, a woman walking away and it's somewhat dark, but it looks more like tenstion. There might be a story behind the picture that explains the sadness but the picture alone is not really cutting it.

Detail 9/15
Besides the fact that the camera field is small, there are a lot of details. The bottom left side is a bit too cluttered, the background could have used some more love and that weapon rack is very questionable.

Technique 6/15
The picture lacks atmosphere, it should be darker and the fog more dense. The ground is too flat and the foreground is a bit too messy.
Also either don't use the game view settings or cut the text off.

Aesthetics 5/15


Twilight

Creativity 11/15
That's a nice idea, it feels very tranquil witht the moon rays reminding me of the actual Keeper of the Growth spell. Speaking of the moon rays, there are too many, a lot of leaves look good but a lot of rays don't. This kinda ruins the feeling a bit.
While the leaves, rays and the sky do a good job at conveying the emotion, the ground doesn't.
And I assume those are two people kissing in front of the moon (my eyes are bad)? That's cute.

Detail 3/15
There's a huge lack of variation, the amount of different doodads can probably be count on two hands. The ground also lacks tile variation.

Technique 4/15
The ground in the foreground is a bit too flat, the picture lacks depth, the fog and sky don't work together and the sky is too bland and also too dark compared to the rest of the scene.
The stars are a nice touch but they get lost behind all the rays and leaves.
That the text is awful (and it's also against the contest rules).

Aesthetics 6/15


Shadow Fury

Creativity 1/15
One of the entries where I had to take a look at the post to make sure which emotion is being shown, which is not a good sign.
I guess I can accept loneliness somewhat if I try really hard. But there's nothing really there.

Detail 8/15
The detail is okay, the doodad variation is pretty decent. Some more doodads closer to the camera are missing, covering the entire ground with grass doodads to hide the ugly tiles would have been another possibility.

Technique 7/15
The camera is too close up, tiles that are too close to the camera are very ugly. The fog density and color is well picked and gives a good forest feeling. The trees are placed well.
The worst thing is the camera, you can't see enough and it's holding the entire terrain back.

Aesthetics 5/15

---

((Votes / Total Votes) * 25) + ((2-P + Gilles)/Total Points Possible) * 75 = Final Score (cut to two decimals)

fladdermasken: ((7/77) * 25) + ((52 + 50)/120) * 75 = 2.27 + 63.75 = 66.02
Chaos.: ((16/77) * 25) + ((44 + 54)/120) * 75 = 5.19 + 61.25 = 66.44
Shadow Fury: ((0/77) * 25) + ((21 + 17)/120) * 75 = 23.75
Twilight: ((0/77) * 25) + ((24 + 27)/120) * 75 = 31.88
rushing_epic: ((1/77) * 25) + ((23 + 29)/120) * 75 = 0.32 + 32.5 = 32.82
Edge45: ((4/77) * 25) + ((30 + 41)/120) * 75 = 1.3 + 44.38 = 45.68
tobyfat50: ((31/77) * 25) + ((47 + 51)/120) * 75 = 10.06 + 61.25 = 71.31
sigelang: ((7/77) * 25) + ((35 + 47)/120) * 75 = 2.27 + 51.25 = 53.52
Keiji: ((11/77) * 25) + ((49 + 47)/120) * 75 = 3.57 + 60 = 63.57

---

Other Placings

4. Keiji
5. sigelang
6. Edge45
7. rushing_epic
8. Twilight
9. Shadow Fury

Thank you Gilles and 2-P for judging the contest. Thank you all participants who submitted entries. Meet you again next time.
And thank you fladdermasken for taking care of all the mumbo, jumbo contest hosting and calculations and shit, ta.

Contest | Poll (click here to view the entries)

 

[Bannar]

Congratz!

Amazing entries! My brother couldn't belive it's War3 (because I've shown him those before actually telling him it's old warcraft III).

 

[TriggerHappy]

I personally don't agree with tobyfat50, but congratulations to everyone.

tobyfat50's submission is amazing, but it shouldn't have been allowed in a terraning contest. His final submission looks photoshopped as well (grainy, no aliasing).

I could be wrong but just putting that out there.

 

[tobyfat50]

Is my reaction! OMG I won!!!

Edit: I did not cheated! And I have a wall of text ready as a countermeasure

-

Ask Keiji!

Overwhelmed with Joy!
Also Big thanks for the people who tried to understand!

 

[Cihparg]

Is my reaction! OMG I won!!!

Edit: I did not cheated! And I have a wall of text ready as a countermeasure

-

Ask Keiji!

Overwhelmed with Joy!
Also Big thanks for the people who tried to understand!

Well, since I'm tired and bored at the moment, I'll take the time for this.

Let's begin with your screenshot, which has been manipulated to look better than it actually is ingame.

Hidden

Provided "Final Entry" screenshot:

Actual image from the map:

As you can see, Anti-Aliasing has been applied to the image, as well as a grain filter; but that's not all! You may freely explore other faults visible in the picture. For one instance, the background mountains.

Then let's also take the fact that most of the "terraining techniques" you may see presented here are in fact single models. Large, single models. The whole foreground is but one model, the shadows aren't actually generated by the game, but instead they've been rendered on the model before importing it to the map.

The discussion against creating models during the contest is also open, this type of "terraining" wouldn't even have happened weren't we so sloppy on our rules.


To show you just how large the some of the models are, I'm going to present a screenshot of each model in a row, used in the terrain map.



Final regards; Good job on your "terrain", but please don't even try do anything close to that next time.

 

[EdgeOfChaos]

Congrats!

Yeah, tobyfat's is not really terraining, it's modeling, but technically it follows the rules. And it is quite impressive regardless.

EDIT: I disagree with the accusation that it was photoshopped.
This is photo forensics for the image: http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=c8c3ccc5023e1af16270490cc92bcdeecd474b3a.1419997&fmt=ela
Make of it what you will. White means possible manipulation (not necessarily). The only places where it's white are the trees and birds, not mountains.

Nearly no error level.
More info: http://fotoforensics.com/tutorial-ela.php

 

[Heinvers]

Congratulations to tobyfat50 for his entry. I would have preferred Chaos' entry for a win but the judges have spoken.

 

[Celaquil]

The only part I can't explain is the grain filter, and besides, I let that slip because in my opinion that filter only made the terrain worse. Though if memory serves, Toby said something about the filter being a part of the plane model he used to enhance the lighting in his final version, which isn't the map he provided, apparently the provided map is from before he added the grain filter to the plane. The anti-aliasing is actually a Nvidia setting for the screen, it's not photoshop, it's just a graphic-card enhancing the screen. Which isn't exactly against the rules.

Then let's also take the fact that most of the "terraining techniques" you may see presented here are in fact single models. Large, single models. The whole foreground is but one model, the shadows aren't actually generated by the game, but instead they've been rendered on the model before importing it to the map.

While I neither find this a very terrainer kind of thing to do, nor do I like it, it isn't currently against the rules, so there's that.

As a summary, the alterations that might be there are extremely small, and even though
not acceptable, should they be alterations, the final results stand, and won't be altered.
- So, let's not argue about something that isn't going to change.

 

[tobyfat50]

Well, since I'm tired and bored at the moment, I'll take the time for this.

Let's begin with your screenshot, which has been manipulated to look better than it actually is ingame.

Hidden

Provided "Final Entry" screenshot:

Actual image from the map:

As you can see, Anti-Aliasing has been applied to the image, as well as a grain filter; but that's not all! You may freely explore other faults visible in the picture. For one instance, the background mountains.

Then let's also take the fact that most of the "terraining techniques" you may see presented here are in fact single models. Large, single models. The whole foreground is but one model, the shadows aren't actually generated by the game, but instead they've been rendered on the model before importing it to the map.

The discussion against creating models during the contest is also open, this type of "terraining" wouldn't even have happened weren't we so sloppy on our rules.


To show you just how large the some of the models are, I'm going to present a screenshot of each model in a row, used in the terrain map.



Final regards; Good job on your "terrain", but please don't even try do anything close to that next time.

Great, someone that is questioning my techniques, I was getting pretty board myself! I have a lot of explanations and some of the points against the way I made my terrain are wrong.

Note that my internet is slow 12 kb per second (cell phone net - using on the PC). There are some differences in the finished product and the upload I made. The reason is that I deleted my final work accidently I make lots of copies when I work and unfortunately my editor crashed (happens when I'm working with that stuff) rendering the original map unopenable. My other disadvantage besides a slow net is the slow computer. So I do something even more moronic which is I delete my backup copy, the only version I had was a earlier one. Being very rushed and thinking that it shouldn't matter if it was a bit different I uploaded that map anyhow (Took me 3 hours) and I went with that in the end!

So here are most of the points I'll be proving:
Everything is done with planes and fake shadows for skins including the grain filter which isn't there in this example. Notice the line at the bottom of the doorway? That is a visual error on the shadow map which I later corrected in the finished version that I never got to submit. If you look at the sun rays filtrer it is wrongly placed in that version compared to the final image. I admit that they are different simply because I the finished version was corrected. There are some corrections on the baskets and other objects wich wher buging me and can be clearly seen if you switch between the two screenshots also corrected on the shadow maps. Now the strangest thing of all must be the leaves on the floor next to the basket, I was running out of time so I just used a bush to trick the eye making it seem like fallen leaves, the shadows where a small plane I placed underneath in the last version. It can all be easily done in photoshop, yes but that's the reason I choose to upload this map instead, as proof.

Now for the anti-aliasing, I'll be honest and admit with no harsh feelings to anyone that it is the stupidest rule I ever heard about, no, It's no program! I use NVIDIA in the options to enable them on wc3, and upped the resolution to max larger than my screen, should be making the same result. I thought most people knew about this, it's how my video card displays the game, you can fine tune the quality of the visuals in the NVIDIA options panel, most people interested in graphic or a finer image quality know about it, GOOGLE IT! And what, was that not allowed? That's actually a shock!!! Blame my video card then! (You are probably thinking that the anti aliasing is photoshopped as well, that is completely wrong, do some research!!!)
About other differences in color or contrast. Isn't it the way it displays on other screens? If not then it shortly is the grain filter panel wich is set to additive wich of course will brighten the image a little bit D. Notice the sun flare panel changing the color in the image? Just like that! Do a little experiment, make a plane and a grain filter on it and set it to additive then move it over in the scene, you will notice that it brightens up the area covered by the plane.

Then let's also take the fact that most of the "terraining techniques" you may see presented here are in fact single models. Large, single models. The whole foreground is but one model, the shadows aren't actually generated by the game, but instead they've been rendered on the model before importing it to the map.

The discussion against creating models during the contest is also open, this type of "terraining" wouldn't even have happened weren't we so sloppy on our rules.

And the problem is? Most are made by myself and to sum it all up it was a mammoth task and hard work not to mention the agonizing days I spent rendering the shadow maps. So what, changing skins is allowed but changing a model or making it yourself is not?! Don't really see the logic here! By the way most models were one smaller models but I chose to combine them in one because it works better for me and the editor as well + the game runs better like that, If I haven't done that I would be working with horrible lags.
If things like that weren't allowed from the beginning, they should be mentioned! - They weren't.

If that's the way thing are I would really consider changing the rules as they are faulty and need rethinking but I know it would be useless to ask something like that so I won't bother, It would be way over the comfy zone!

Final regards; Good job on your "terrain", but please don't even try do anything close to that next time.

This will probably be the first and last terrain I'll ever be making with such techniques in a contest.
-----------------------

One more thing, Cihparg, I really do suggest you tune up your resolution or video card, that screshot you made is God awful! Another reason for more differences in the screenshot having that resolution and no anti aliasing creates those white lines you see in some places.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, just trying to prove my point. And with this I'm done, good day to all you gentlemen.
My mood isn't spoiled, hope I didn't spoiled yours.

 

[TriggerHappy]

I was just pointing out what I saw, nothing personal. I even stated I wasn't sure if I was right.

And the problem is? Most are made by myself and to sum it all up it was a mammoth task and hard work not to mention the agonizing days I spent rendering the shadow maps. So what, changing skins is allowed but changing a model or making it yourself is not?! Don't really see the logic here! By the way most models were one smaller models but I chose to combine them in one because it works better for me and the editor as well + the game runs better like that, If I haven't done that I would be working with horrible lags.

It's a terraning contest not a modelling contest.

I'm not downplaying your submission, it was great but I don't think methods like that should be allowed in future contests.

Maybe a pseudo-terraining contest? although I'm not sure how many people would join.

If things like that weren't allowed from the beginning, they should be mentioned! - They weren't.

Which is why you're the winner, relax.

 

[Celaquil]

Toby, you shouldn't feel a need to defend yourself here, all that I said should
suffice for everyone. And if it doesn't suffice, then the problem is with them, not you.
- Let's avoid an argument by... Not arguing.

 

[tobyfat50]

I'm cool, wasn't angry or anything, just explanatory.
TriggerHappy, chill out it's fine!

I'm not downplaying your submission, it was great but I don't think methods like that should be allowed in future contests.

Maybe a pseudo-terraining contest? although I'm not sure how many people would join.

Probably so!

 

[Cihparg]

Toby, you shouldn't feel a need to defend yourself here, all that I said should
suffice for everyone. And if it doesn't suffice, then the problem is with them, not you.
- Let's avoid an argument by... Not arguing.

As by your words; was going to make a counter-comment for the "NVIDIA settings", but it seems there's no point for that.

 

[fladdermasken]

First terraining contest I entered and didn't win. D:

Also if people are unclear about the poll calculations, 4 votes were excluded, thus why the total vote count is 77 and not 81.

The votes excluded were sigelang, rushing_epic and Edge45 for voting for themselves, and 2-P's which was excluded because he picked up M0rbid's slot as a judge.

 

[Chaos.]

Congrats toby! I can dig 2nd place. I thoroughly enjoyed giving the editor another go since I haven't touched it in ages. So this was a very fun contest. As always, judges, you two rock! Your time is always appreciated. Thanks for judging.