TC20 - Forest Trolls v0.2

[Wazzz]

Battle.Net Wiki, my beloved

Nice to see this finally uploaded, such love and attention to detail put into it. As a competitor, I am very reasonably concerned.

 

[The Nightmare Book]

I dont wanna press any star marker by now, since the contest is still going, but I enjoyed this race gameplay.
Will those models be made public after the contest?

It feels right. Using "hiding near trees" can be potentially strong, but not against an AI enemy, I think. My juggernaut hero felt strong enough; maybe you can play with his passive health bonus numbers.

Maybe someone else will say more things eventually, but for me it was a smooth experience without any drawbacks and possible "glass cannon" gameplay.
Trolls felt strong.

One question - why there so many units in the bestiary?

 

[SgtWinter]

I dont wanna press any star marker by now, since the contest is still going, but I enjoyed this race gameplay.
Will those models be made public after the contest?

It feels right. Using "hiding near trees" can be potentially strong, but not against an AI enemy, I think. My juggernaut hero felt strong enough; maybe you can play with his passive health bonus numbers.

Maybe someone else will say more things eventually, but for me it was a smooth experience without any drawbacks and possible "glass cannon" gameplay.
Trolls felt strong.

One question - why there so many units in the bestiary?

Glad to hear the race was fun to play!

The models are all mostly heavy edits/rewraps of existing models, with some simple geomerges done by me that would not fit HIVE's criteria so I do not plan on uploading the models, but anyone is free to extract them and use for their own projects. The map is unprotected but uses GrapesOfWrath's Extended GUI which prevents it from being opened without it. They can also use MPQEditor or Magos Model Editor's "Open MPQ" features to extract the assets from the map.

The Arena produces 4 units, which is as much as the Orc Beastiary does.

Thanks for trying it out though! If you're looking for more custom race content, do try out the other entries from the contest!

 

[MogulKahn]

• I feel that you should have more forest synergy. I wouldn't mind some unit or a spell, or even an item in the shop that creates some trees for you, because of so many units having some connection with it
• Ravager is not decresing armor by 2 with his ability. At least there is no showcase of armor reduction on the enemy. Also, this is personal preferance, but really not a fan of this model. He always looked too orcish for my taste. It is lack of a big, troll nose
• Shadow Ward can be abused with ranged units while creeping. When ranged unit attacks from distance, there is enough time for it to hide again before creeps are able to react. Also, I feel this spell is a little bit redudant in a race with racial invisibility skill
• What is Spirit Ward?
• Trapper (in love with the idea, by the way) should get a Lynx instead of a Boar. Forest Trolls have no connection with boars at all for them to ride it in the battle
• I wouldn't mind something extra for Bear Rider. With some many siege option he is kind of lacking. Maul (Bear Hug) is a good idea, but all other siege units are a lot more versatile compared to him. I feel like each of them having 2 attack types is kind of a race theme. Maybe every few seconds a secondary attack that deals damage to the nearby enemy? You have rider and a bear anyway and this gives extra synergy to the unit while Mauling to do some extra damage
• Maybe Dire Troll's (I would also change it's name to something different, like Berserker, Skullcrusher or Behemoth) Smash should get extra damage also on Medium armor to have extra synergy with Trapper's Anchor?
• Pridestalker's cat looks too much like a Tiget instead of a Lynx. Her Prowl description is showing incorrect information (from Troll Berserker's Berserk) and her Ancestral Guardian ultimate should use another model that is more fitting to their Loas
• Pyres should get some damage increase. Now their damage is laughable at the moment. Also feel fitting for them to have Magical attack

Overall, amazing race design. I am in love that you have incorporated everything what Forest Trolls had in Warcraft 3 while creating them. Trapper was especially pleasant surprise. That Boar mini-game that you have is also really cool. Feels abusable with enough pratice. I am only surprised not to see any Avatar of Loas which is kind of a big thing for Forest Trolls.
Now my biggest issue is gonna be for whom to vote for. Yours and Wazzz's designs are both top notch. Great job!

 

[SgtWinter]

• I feel that you should have more forest synergy. I wouldn't mind some unit or a spell, or even an item in the shop that creates some trees for you, because of so many units having some connection with it
• Ravager is not decresing armor by 2 with his ability. At least there is no showcase of armor reduction on the enemy. Also, this is personal preferance, but really not a fan of this model. He always looked too orcish for my taste. It is lack of a big, troll nose
• Shadow Ward can be abused with ranged units while creeping. When ranged unit attacks from distance, there is enough time for it to hide again before creeps are able to react. Also, I feel this spell is a little bit redudant in a race with racial invisibility skill
• What is Spirit Ward?
• Trapper (in love with the idea, by the way) should get a Lynx instead of a Boar. Forest Trolls have no connection with boars at all for them to ride it in the battle
• I wouldn't mind something extra for Bear Rider. With some many siege option he is kind of lacking. Maul (Bear Hug) is a good idea, but all other siege units are a lot more versatile compared to him. I feel like each of them having 2 attack types is kind of a race theme. Maybe every few seconds a secondary attack that deals damage to the nearby enemy? You have rider and a bear anyway and this gives extra synergy to the unit while Mauling to do some extra damage
• Maybe Dire Troll's (I would also change it's name to something different, like Berserker, Skullcrusher or Behemoth) Smash should get extra damage also on Medium armor to have extra synergy with Trapper's Anchor?
• Pridestalker's cat looks too much like a Tiget instead of a Lynx. Her Prowl description is showing incorrect information (from Troll Berserker's Berserk) and her Ancestral Guardian ultimate should use another model that is more fitting to their Loas
• Pyres should get some damage increase. Now their damage is laughable at the moment. Also feel fitting for them to have Magical attack

Overall, amazing race design. I am in love that you have incorporated everything what Forest Trolls had in Warcraft 3 while creating them. Trapper was especially pleasant surprise. That Boar mini-game that you have is also really cool. Feels abusable with enough pratice. I am only surprised not to see any Avatar of Loas which is kind of a big thing for Forest Trolls.

• Over reliance on trees would not be very good I feel, and thematically the Forest Trolls (despite their name) are not exactly tree huggers unlike the Night Elves.
• Thanks for reporting the Ravager bug. I'll fix that for the next update.
• Shadow Ward is a T3 spell, so I reckon it's fine because other factions have ways of abusing the creep AI anyway. I don't think it's redundant either because it offers invisibility during a fight, while Camouflage requires the units to stay stationary and not attack.
• Spirit Ward is a scrapped ward idea. I'll fix the tooltip to not mention it.
• Boars > Lynx
• The Bear Rider is pretty bland but he's also the tankiest option and a strong counter to mass Pierce damage units. I'll consider giving him an additional tool to spice it up though.
• The Dire Troll has a melee attack that deals Normal damage, so a bonus versus Medium is probably overkill lol.
• Well yeah, the Pridestalker rides a tiger not a Lynx so I sure hope it doesn't look like one! Noted on the Prowl tooltip. I'm still looking for a better model for the Ancestral Guardian, I might consider editing an eagle to look more spirit-like to represent the loa Akil'zon.
• Pyres are more like machine guns with low damage and super fast attack speed, especially when upgraded. I also didn't want their towers to be that good because they have the conscripts and boars for defense.

Thanks for the feedback! I intended for the race to feel like an expansion of the Forest Troll creeps while being simple in gameplay, so I'm glad to see it's done well on that front.

Now my biggest issue is gonna be for whom to vote for. Yours and Wazzz's designs are both top notch. Great job!

Hmm... If you vote for him then surely the judges would score my entry more on Theme because the Forest Trolls always lose in lore, so it would actually be quite thematic and lore-friendly. Surely that's how the judging criteria works.

 

[Wazzz]

Hmm... If you vote for him then surely the judges would score my entry more on Theme because the Forest Trolls always lose in lore, so it would actually be quite thematic and lore-friendly. Surely that's how the judging criteria works.

Lore accurate Forest Trolls (my beloved) losing at every opportunity is peak Techtree Design. How can I compete against an entry designed to lose? If I win, then they've beaten me. This is very distressing.

 

[MogulKahn]

I know your stance on this, but here are two Lynx models that can be used, if you ever change your mind. Cheers

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads/lynxrider.292570/ and Eversong Lynx

 

[Daffa]

Not sure but my attempt ended prematurely due to a surprise stop during battle. I only remember having my ritualist hero casting second spell (for the nth time, I think) as it suddenly crash...

I'll try again later with a full run till I win, though I'm still not sure why the game suddenly decided to go funky with me. Dropping the video now while I remember, though it probably be a while before it's fully available

 

[Daffa]

A feedback while I start processing another video from start to finish, this time crash free. Skipped the camo upgrade because I suspect it might be related to the issue from my previous attempt, but I cannot confirm so far.

1. Dragonhawk Hunter has mana but no ability uses that mana. Intentional?
2. Ravager (early melee unit) feels lackluster since they're not tanky enough for front lines and cost quite a food
3. Juggernaut hero is a beast, bro is a chad blocking tons of damage. Ravagers would never
4. Shadow Healing is quite powerful, but that's arguable... though the mana on damage aura hero can make this quite something else

This faction has means to counteract most if not all enemy formations, which is nice. I have to say, definitely liking this entry as well. This will be a fight for the ultimate spot in the contest

 

[SgtWinter]

A feedback while I start processing another video from start to finish, this time crash free. Skipped the camo upgrade because I suspect it might be related to the issue from my previous attempt, but I cannot confirm so far.

1. Dragonhawk Hunter has mana but no ability uses that mana. Intentional?
2. Ravager (early melee unit) feels lackluster since they're not tanky enough for front lines and cost quite a food
3. Juggernaut hero is a beast, bro is a chad blocking tons of damage. Ravagers would never
4. Shadow Healing is quite powerful, but that's arguable... though the mana on damage aura hero can make this quite something else

This faction has means to counteract most if not all enemy formations, which is nice. I have to say, definitely liking this entry as well. This will be a fight for the ultimate spot in the contest

Thanks for trying it out! I think I know why the game's crashed and I'm already working on a fix for it. Fortunately it was not the Camo upgrade but good on you for taking precautions haha

1. The Dragonhawk Hunter is based on the human's Dragonhawk Rider so I probably just forgot to remove their mana haha.
2. The Ravager is a high DPS melee fighter with a decent move speed for moving around, but not really designed to tank for the army, which is where the Arena units and Dire Trolls come into play.
3. The Juggernaut is a bit stupid (due to his very low Intelligence stats), but he knows how to throw hands!
4. Agreed! @Wazzz has already pointed out how busted the Ritualist's aura was in a playtest, and I'll be looking to do a quick patch before tomorrow's deadline!

Glad you liked it! <3

 

[Wazzz]

I love the polish and attention to detail with this entry. Without relying heavily on flashy systems or anything overly "complicated", the faction seamlessly integrates a lot of smaller and powerfully designed moving parts that come together to create a very enjoyable gameplay experience. This feels like it could be at home in the Warcraft 3 melee game, maybe included in some sort of new content patch.