Substandard, Reforged and Geo-merges

[Footman16]

Hey guys,

So as we all know Reforged is out, Retera's Model Studio has an option to edit Reforged models and we have several now in the model section with all of them being in the Substandard section.

This to me doesn't seem like the most ideal situation as it appears that it will be a long time before we see a Reforged model to be approved.

I will add a disclaimer here that I do believe the majority of the Reforged models we have seen do indeed belong in Substandard due to the geo-merges being simple and not done well due to scaling/clipping etc.

However, there are a small number of models that I don't believe should be marked as substandard despite them being about 90% geo-merges. The point I would make is that we have seen classic geo-merges approved, I remember Tauer's old series of different clan grunts being a set of geo-merges that were approved. I'm not suggesting they shouldn't have been but rather we realised that the geo-merges were done well, were useful and hence were approved.

Another facet is that editing Reforged models and skins is much more difficult than editing Classic models. Editing the skins takes a lot longer for a start due to their size.

In my opinion the ideal solution would be a separate Reforged model/skin section which would also solve the issue of Classic users having to search through Reforged models that they don't want to see.

I feel that this applies to some of the Reforged models. I'd like to hear people's thoughts and solutions on this issue and perhaps hear from some of the moderators/reviewers who have more experience in this matter.

NOTE: This is not a discussion about Reforged or their resources merely how the Hive should treat, judge and section them.

 

[deepstrasz]

The point I would make is that we have seen classic geo-merges approved, I remember Tauer's old series of different clan grunts being a set of geo-merges that were approved.

Depends when. Now, we're a bit more strict and it's good because we want to promote good work and originality first.
Maybe some of these geoset merges don't take just little time to make and maybe the concept is very smart but ultimately they are just composites.

Another facet is that editing Reforged models and skins is much more difficult than editing Classic models. Editing the skins takes a lot longer for a start due to their size.

Many have invested a lot of time in maps which are substandard, that doesn't make them better than those made in less time that are of good quality.

Now, since we approve edited maps, that have become open source or remakes, we would need to convert that kind of behaviour to models and skins.
Rules are a bit disharmonic between resource types.

 

[Footman16]

Depends when. Now, we're a bit more strict and it's good because we want to promote good work and originality first.
Maybe some of these geoset merges don't take just little time to make and maybe the concept is very smart but ultimately they are just composites.

A quick look through the first few pages of the model section shows that theres been no change in how strict we are with classic models. Ujimasa Hojo has produced lots of re-textured geo-merges that have been approved recently and i dont disagree with their approval due to their usefulness.

Many have invested a lot of time in maps which are substandard, that doesn't make them better than those made in less time that are of good quality.

Now, since we approve edited maps, that have become open source or remakes, we would need to convert that kind of behaviour to models and skins.
Rules are a bit disharmonic between resource types.

I dont disagree someone can spend a lot of time on something thats garbage but my point would be we're not looking just at the time required but many factors: the time required, the usefulness, the general quality etc. Imho its hard to produce something that looks good in reforged without spending more time on it. For example the sheer size of the reforged skins means it can take several hours just to recolour one model. I won't name them but there are some geo-merged reforged resources that obviously did not take much time and are done very poorly and so belong in substandard but when compared with the Nerzhul, Twilight Hammer grunt and Admirals guard the difference is night and day.

 

[deepstrasz]

A quick look through the first few pages of the model section shows that theres been no change in how strict we are with classic models. Ujimasa Hojo has produced lots of re-textured geo-merges that have been approved recently and i dont disagree with their approval due to their usefulness.

Have they been approved by the same person? That might also play a role in how things are moderated.

Let's hope some model reviewers and especially makers come in for the chat.

 

[Feng Shui]

As long as there is no standard in place, it's strange to put them in substandard.

It feels more reasonable to set the standard from what there is rather than what we want it to be.

 

[Footman16]

As long as there is no standard in place, it's strange to put them in substandard.

It feels more reasonable to set the standard from what there is rather than what we want it to be.

Hmmm, I hadn't considered things that way, perhaps we may never see scratch built Reforged models in which case you're right in that what we have just now in terms of standards is what we'll have to judge.

 

[tulee]

The rule for instant Substandard plays an important role for taking the load off the shoulders of the reviewers. As long as reviewers are doing this as a hobby, then high standards are needed to keep the backlog of pending resources from getting out of hand, as there is a limit to how much time people are willing/able to invest in a hobby.

 

[Footman16]

The rule for instant Substandard plays an important role for taking the load off the shoulders of the reviewers. As long as reviewers are doing this as a hobby, then high standards are needed to keep the backlog of pending resources from getting out of hand, as there is a limit to how much time people are willing/able to invest in a hobby.

Instant substandard? I'm not familiar with that rule.

 

[Ralle]

I believe some people submit something they know isn't unique and special enough but still useful and just put in the description that substandard is all they want. This is sort of a loop hole as we typically give 'awaiting update' and try to give feedback to improve the overall quality of a thing.

The way we threat Reforged models is subject to change. But things are still very new and it's hard to decide. Do we allow Reforged geo-merges into approved just because it's too hard to make original quality models? It feels a bit like giving up, but I am not against tweaking it a bit.

 

[Footman16]

I believe some people submit something they know isn't unique and special enough but still useful and just put in the description that substandard is all they want. This is sort of a loop hole as we typically give 'awaiting update' and try to give feedback to improve the overall quality of a thing.

The way we treat Reforged models is subject to change. But things are still very new and it's hard to decide. Do we allow Reforged geo-merges into approved just because it's too hard to make original quality models? It feels a bit like giving up, but I am not against tweaking it a bit.

Thanks for the reply Ralle, personally I wouldnt see it as giving up because the quality of the geo-merge would still be taken into account. If its done well and creates a cool relatively unique unit then it should be approved similar to how classic geomerges can be approved imo.