StarCraft 2 Changes, Too much? Too little?

[ggurface]

Do you feel that the patches are coming too often or not enough or just right? The last 2 patches have significantly changed the game, the zealot build time, the roach range, the reaper upgrade modification. Do you feel that there has not been enough time in between patches to let the effects sink in? Or do you feel that there simply has been too many other units that need rebalancing? Let your voice be heard, Blizzard has shown in the past to listen to its players, hopefully that will mean that the Chat Channels are coming in the "next" patch.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

The only headache they are causing to me is replays become old and when I have say 10 replays to see and have to reload SC2 every time it's painful, otherwise it's normal atm the game is new. The time will come in few years where there be no changes in a long time like it is in war3. As I said, I never played well with reapers and supply-->rax is normal bo, so is ok.

TvT the same as before this patch
TvP the same as before this patch
TvZ is slightly different as in if reapers aren't used im not sure how much they will stay with lings and may use roaches all the time. So far they still do the same /zergs/

 

[Dark Hunter1357]

i think they need to buff utlras. and nerf marauders. Just by a little bit thought, and buff the reapers so they are actually used. and nerf the thor anti air range, thats a must

 

[PurplePoot]

i think they need to buff utlras. and nerf marauders. Just by a little bit thought, and buff the reapers so they are actually used. and nerf the thor anti air range, thats a must

Do you actually have any justification for that?

I don't understand why so many people want Marauders nerfed. Their stats aren't that great. Ultralisks are already fine and Thors counter 2 units with their antiair, and that range is kind of necessary given how slow they move.

Anyhow, TvZ changed significantly, and while the medivac nerf affects TvP a bit it isn't a huge deal.

 

[ggurface]

The only headache they are causing to me is replays become old and when I have say 10 replays to see and have to reload SC2 every time it's painful, otherwise it's normal atm the game is new. The time will come in few years where there be no changes in a long time like it is in war3. As I said, I never played well with reapers and supply-->rax is normal bo, so is ok.

TvT the same as before this patch
TvP the same as before this patch
TvZ is slightly different as in if reapers aren't used im not sure how much they will stay with lings and may use roaches all the time. So far they still do the same /zergs/

Yeah, I mentioned the replay problem to Blizzard on their bug/tech forum. I think as more people notice it, Blizzard will get it fixed eventually.

 

[Dark Hunter1357]

Do you actually have any justification for that?

I don't understand why so many people want Marauders nerfed. Their stats aren't that great. Ultralisks are already fine and Thors counter 2 units with their antiair, and that range is kind of necessary given how slow they move.

Anyhow, TvZ changed significantly, and while the medivac nerf affects TvP a bit it isn't a huge deal.

yes i do. 5 banelings kill one marauder, so if i have the counter to his army, hydra bane or roach bane, i need to kill off the marines he has. but if he puts 1 or 2 marauders in front, i will kill 3-4 marines or nothing. they are armored, but i think they should die from one baneling less. and i have seen them in plenty of games, only hard counters really counter marauders, which are tier 1.5. Its the same with marines, only hard counter counters mass marine good and they are only tier 1. But they are not so op(the marines).

And FFS THORS ARE FUCKING OP. 5 broods vs 5 thors and WTF thors win, they just need concentrate fire? My hydra army will be decimated by thors. 3 Thors and 2 siege kill off my roaches. Thors are Sooo cost effective that its op. Muta will die to thor marine. If the terran player doesn't sux, and has 3 thors, with just a few direct counters to my units, even if my amry value is higher, i have no chance. And have you ever seen mass thor in team games? They can kill the ultralisk as if a marine is shooting a dog. Their ability can be used to kill immortals and colosis. And it takes ages for zergings to kill the thors as the thors have 400 life(which is also part of the reason broods die to thors). Roaches do counter then really good, but as i said while the roaches kill the thors a few tanks can kill of my army.

Ultralisks sux so bad againts terran. They should be able to kill off his bio army, as they have splash, so it looks like they are supposed to win. But mass marine can actually kill a few ultras before they get to the marines. if its on a choke, ultras are useless. They need the health nerf removed.

 

[tagg1080]

yes i do. 5 banelings kill one marauder, so if i have the counter to his army, hydra bane or roach bane, i need to kill off the marines he has. but if he puts 1 or 2 marauders in front, i will kill 3-4 marines or nothing. they are armored, but i think they should die from one baneling less. and i have seen them in plenty of games, only hard counters really counter marauders, which are tier 1.5. Its the same with marines, only hard counter counters mass marine good and they are only tier 1. But they are not so op(the marines).

And FFS THORS ARE FUCKING OP. 5 broods vs 5 thors and WTF thors win, they just need concentrate fire? My hydra army will be decimated by thors. 3 Thors and 2 siege kill off my roaches. Thors are Sooo cost effective that its op. Muta will die to thor marine. If the terran player doesn't sux, and has 3 thors, with just a few direct counters to my units, even if my amry value is higher, i have no chance. And have you ever seen mass thor in team games? They can kill the ultralisk as if a marine is shooting a dog. Their ability can be used to kill immortals and colosis. And it takes ages for zergings to kill the thors as the thors have 400 life(which is also part of the reason broods die to thors). Roaches do counter then really good, but as i said while the roaches kill the thors a few tanks can kill of my army.

Ultralisks sux so bad againts terran. They should be able to kill off his bio army, as they have splash, so it looks like they are supposed to win. But mass marine can actually kill a few ultras before they get to the marines. if its on a choke, ultras are useless. They need the health nerf removed.

If you honestly think that Z can beat an army head on, then you are quite mistaken.

Their entire race is built around macro, quick tech switching, and MASSING UNITS.

Bitching that when the Terran makes an army, and you make an army, and the Terran wins, is just not thinking.


You can remake your army WAY faster, you can tech switch to counter him WAY faster. What do those traits lead you to believe? That your army is supposed to win in a huge epic battle?

lolwat?


I actually think zerg got quite the buff in this last patch, as now they are almost guaranteed to be ahead in macro, which almost guarantees win.

 

[PurplePoot]

yes i do. 5 banelings kill one marauder, so if i have the counter to his army, hydra bane or roach bane, i need to kill off the marines he has. but if he puts 1 or 2 marauders in front, i will kill 3-4 marines or nothing. they are armored, but i think they should die from one baneling less. and i have seen them in plenty of games, only hard counters really counter marauders, which are tier 1.5. Its the same with marines, only hard counter counters mass marine good and they are only tier 1. But they are not so op(the marines).

You could always try not just attack moving into the marauders and instead clickmoving beside the marines. Marauders aren't all that great against Zerg unless you are massing Roaches.

And FFS THORS ARE FUCKING OP. 5 broods vs 5 thors and WTF thors win, they just need concentrate fire?

Uh broodlords win, you're making stuff up. Unless you managed to pile all your broodlords on top of each other somehow.

Ultralisks sux so bad againts terran. They should be able to kill off his bio army, as they have splash, so it looks like they are supposed to win. But mass marine can actually kill a few ultras before they get to the marines. if its on a choke, ultras are useless. They need the health nerf removed.

Ultralisks are very strong but obviously don't counter every Terran unit in the game like you apparently want them to. If you are having trouble with bio (which pretty much removes all credibility from you since bio is not very good vs Zerg anyways) then try Ling/Baneling/Roach (+Infestors when possible) or Ling/Baneling/Muta. Both of them annihilate bio.

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Zerg isn't supposed to be cost-effective due to how they can macro and tech switch, but that doesn't matter in either of these cases since you have cost-effective counters in such cases and you apparently just either don't know how to use them or refuse to.

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Edit: So I felt like finding out exactly how badly Thors lost to Broodlords. Here are my results (both sides were microd to focus fire and, in the case of brood lords, avoid splash damage):

5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords:

(0/0 thors 0/0 brood lords 0/0 broodlings): 4 Broodlords live.
(3/3 thors 3/3 brood lords 0/0 broodlings): 2 Broodlords live.
(3/3 thors 3/3 brood lords 3/3 broodlings): 3 Broodlords live.
(1/1 thors 0/0 brood lords 0/0 broodlings): 1 Broodlord lives.
(2/2 thors 0/0 brood lords 0/0 broodlings): 3 Thors live.

To lose in the situation you described, which I assume was in a game you played, means that both your ground and air upgrades were behind by 2 in both attack and armour.

 

[Dark Hunter1357]

1) Yes i know i can do that, but marauders can slow my banelings and the marines can run, while the marauders kill them off. They just need a 20 hp nerf.
2) I know how to kill off a terran bio, but aren't ultras supposed to fight off terran bio?
3) If what you say about broodlords is true, then i sux and i will fix that

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

DarkHunter do you ever watch pro replays? From your testing strats I might assume you don't.

I checked like the last 50 top replays or so, Concussive shells are upgraded after stimpack even shields. Why? Because stimpack is vital when using MMM and 1/2 of the whole match and battles within are without concussive shells. Any other nerf would be impossible since Marauders cannot die from 1 Psi Storm or stand more vs banelings.. this is the point of marauder to be more resistant than the marine. You want them to be like marines, do psi, all die.. Marauder life is something that cannot be changed this is illegal to even ask for.

Marines and Thors, yesterday I lost to zerg with 24 mutas (also they had Attack upgrade : 2) I had 3-4 thors and 10-15 stimpack marines&medivacs. MY BAD - less units. The last time I owned a weird Broods+some corruptors (broods ever used in 1v1?) was with vikings and thors. Broods broodling surround thor is enough of 'op' thank you. So you can't lose a game with them and say 'oh broodlords weak, thors op'. Utralisks weak? Again, if you are facing 200/200 terran vs your 150-130 supply which btw is opposite as I dont see how zerg will have less.... Check your replay and see who had more supply... you can't say Ultralisks die too fast...In equal supply or slightly more for Zerg, Zerg wins if also having 5-6 ultras.

In late game Zerg will likely have more food and is far not weak but they had to create inifite threads about zerg being weak. After this new patch, I think the 'zerg being weak' is getting banal and out of hand.

 

[PurplePoot]

Stimmed MM can't kite banelings properly unless banelings are off creep and lack the speed upgrade. Also, as Imtor said, Marauders are tanks (they do pretty awful DPS compared to the Marine) and you seem to want them to be slightly more expensive Marines.