So, our speculations were right.

[takakenji]

R.I.P Bolvar, R.I.P Arthas.

 

[Darkness-4ever]

-.- please don't continue this... it's been talked to death in the other thread already.

 

[takakenji]

is there a problem with talking on a forum?

 

[Darkness-4ever]

When it begins a whole nother thread when it simply could have been a post in an existing one, yes it kinda seems like a waste to me, but do as you please, I'm just giving advice, one that I think I'll take myself by never addressing Arthas Death related threads again.

 

[takakenji]

well, i never check the other thread so i didn't know :/

 

[dead-man-walking]

Bolvar looks like burned shit now

 

[Deolrin]

Clever end for the expansion. At least he didn't just die like Illidan did.

 

[Linaze]

Lame end for the expansion. Too bad he didn't just die like Illidan did.

 

[Tyranid]

Lame end for the expansion. Too bad he didn't just die like Illidan did.

I c wut u did thar.

 

[Evillizard]

I c wut u did thar.

i don't see what you did there.
I was about to make a thread of this. You stole my spotlight ><
Meh. On my RP realm there are like 5 RP guilds just for bolvar leading the lich king. I think my private server is adapting to it

 

[Adiktuz]

aw... Arthas died... is there a video on how he died?

 

[NhazUl]

Yes, buddy, the first post.

 

[Adiktuz]

Yes, buddy, the first post.

he is already dying in that video... I was talking about a video on how he died (something before the video in the first post)

 

[Deolrin]

Players got him to low HP, he cast some spell which insta-killed everyone, cinematic is displayed.

 

[Tyranid]

Players got him to low HP, he cast some spell which insta-killed everyone, cinematic is displayed.

Actually, the players get him to something like 10%, after which he kills the whole party. Then he goes on to give a loooong speech about how Tirion failed and how he will now raise the players are champions of Scourge. Then suddenly Tirion prays to the holy light and breaks out of his little ice cone (which Arthas puts him in in the beginning of the fight) and jumps and smashes the Frostmourne. This causes the souls from Forstmourne to go wild and raise Arthas into the air. Terenas comes out of the Frostmourne and ressurects the raid. Then the raid just beats Arthas to 0% while he is floating in the air.

After that it's the cinematic.

 

[Adiktuz]

oh... okay... I'm not playing WoW, I just thought that there is avideo about his fight... ^^

 

[Edhel-dur]

oh... okay... I'm not playing WoW, I just thought that there is avideo about his fight... ^^

Since he is dead, what "pro guild" wouldn't record the first world kill now-a-days?

This is what you are looking for:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlxcNMltpU8&feature=related

 

[LordDz]

Actually, the players get him to something like 10%, after which he kills the whole party. Then he goes on to give a loooong speech about how Tirion failed and how he will now raise the players are champions of Scourge. Then suddenly Tirion prays to the holy light and breaks out of his little ice cone (which Arthas puts him in in the beginning of the fight) and jumps and smashes the Frostmourne. This causes the souls from Forstmourne to go wild and raise Arthas into the air. Terenas comes out of the Frostmourne and ressurects the raid. Then the raid just beats Arthas to 0% while he is floating in the air.

After that it's the cinematic.

So.. You have to watch that thing everytime you raid him?

 

[Edhel-dur]

So.. You have to watch that thing everytime you raid him?

Sadly, yes.

Makes the fight seem epicless, for me at least.
I mean the last moments of the actual fight...is hitting a pinyata long enough for it to drop the lewt. . .EPIC.
Illidan at least just kneeled, said something short about "the hunter is nothing without the hunt" and than just collapesed.

 

[VeljkoM]

There goes another great hero of Warcraft slain by wow corruption. How many more characters must be ruin just to bring satisfaction to people who don't care shit about lore and want just epic loot (this doesn't apply to all).

 

[takakenji]

There goes another great hero of Warcraft slain by wow corruption. How many more characters must be ruin just to bring satisfaction to people who don't care shit about lore and want just epic loot (this doesn't apply to all).

arthas was actually given a death that made sense

 

[VeljkoM]

And then replaced by barbecue guy because suddenly world can't have Lich King? Ner'zhul was never even on Azeroth during his life and was just a puppet in hands of Legion. Then he used Arthas to save him self from his Demon Masters and then he wanted to kill all. Why didn't they just destroyed armor somehow or purged it?

And he was given death in shape of being pinata so that is embarrassing.

 

[takakenji]

And then replaced by barbecue guy because suddenly world can't have Lich King?

This wasn't sudden, it's been planned for a while. Also, mr "barbecue guy" is the only reason Variann's son is alive, so stfu. He ruled over as the regent of Stormwind and helped Anduin in ruling untill Varian returned. For how he was "killed" (he was really preserved by the dragons fire which is why he's barbecued) see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrMa_sU1Nnk (he's the human)

Ner'zhul was never even on Azeroth during his life and was just a puppet in hands of Legion. Then he used Arthas to save him self from his Demon Masters and then he wanted to kill all.

i have NO idea what you're trying to say here besides the obvious everone knew

Why didn't they just destroyed armor somehow or purged it?

that would only make stuff worst, making it possible to NEVER have a lich king. A very tiny piece of a 'good' arthas remained within Arthas, keeping the undead under control and from totally going mad upon Azeroth. If there was noone to control the undead, they would roam wildly and be an even bigger threat.

And he was given death in shape of being pinata so that is embarrassing.

what

 

[Fussiler1]

Still.. Frostmourne, sword forged by the Nathrezim, having fed on countless of souls through WC III, the expansion and WoW, gets beaten by the Ashbringer. ._.

 

[takakenji]

Still.. Frostmourne, sword forged by the Nathrezim, having fed on countless of souls through WC III, the expansion and WoW, gets beaten by the Ashbringer. ._.

ashbringer, forged by the crystal of a naaru, made by muradin bronzebeard, slew countless undead through WC lore, wielded by the greatest paladins of all time.

what's wrong with ashbringer, again?

 

[Deolrin]

"Made by Muradin Bronzebeard"

Uh... What?

 

[NhazUl]

I hate how Ashbringer appeared out of nothing in WoW, but its story is pretty decent.

And Muradin has nothing to do with it.

 

[Tyranid]

REALLY starting to get tired of people QQing how "WOW IS KILLING OUR CHARACTERS!" Well how else do you want them to die? On Warcraft 4 where they are killed by a few lore characters and 25 footmans? This differs from WoW's a few lore character and 25 players just...how again?

 

[Edhel-dur]

REALLY starting to get tired of people QQing how "WOW IS KILLING OUR CHARACTERS!" Well how else do you want them to die? On Warcraft 4 where they are killed by a few lore characters and 25 footmans? This differs from WoW's a few lore character and 25 players just...how again?

It's not about that.

I believe people QQ because how, why and where the lore characters die.

There were characters, who survived from warcraft 1 all the way to warcraft 3 (grom for example).
Now warcraft 3 introduced many characters to the lore, (illidan, vashj, kael, arthas, etc) and all these new characters, for a player perspective, one that loves the story, they die too fast. Grom survived at least 20 years while continuosly fighting in Azeroth with his Warsong who were trying to evade being captured by the humans. While Illidan, and Arthas have whole continents, and they die just like that. Since they we're introduced to the player...story wise, these powerfull characters die in....5 years?...well illidan died in 3, but arthas in 5 (since wc3 tft).
No one complained that Magtheridon died. He was introduced in wc3 tft, was talked about for like. . .3 missions and in the last mission he is defeated. But he was a small character with an epic death (and an epic fight ). So people do not complain about him.
However, about Illidan and Arthas. . .people wanted to see more of their doings into the story. Not just sit there, in their throne room waiting to be killed.

Truth be told...Arthas is more active in the expansion (than Illidan was).

Another reason why people...complain about killing characters is that. . .no new character arises. I am surprised that Tirion might appear as it seems in the upcoming Cataclysm.

Players actually need some new characters, to compensate for the "loss" of Illidan, Kael, Vashj, Kel'thuzad, Sapphiron and so on. Players need new characters to get involved into the story, and get involved into the front lines, being shown in some fights, being shown their assets, their weaknesses, their dreams and so on.

An example of this. . .is shown in wc2-wc3. In wc2 we loose Khadgar, Alleria, Turalyon etc. . .but we gain in wc3 Jaina, Sylvanas, Arthas. . .still in wc3 we loose Grom, who is replaced by Thrall.

--Long story short...since WoW started, players felt that their new favorite characters who were just introduced, died to early and after their deaths, they are not replaced by anyone else, thus an "emotional gap" apears into a players heart making him sad and thus..revolted that the future is death of all characters without being replaced by new ones

Hope this shined some light

 

[LordDz]

There goes another great hero of Warcraft slain by wow corruption. How many more characters must be ruin just to bring satisfaction to people who don't care shit about lore and want just epic loot (this doesn't apply to all).

Does all heroes in Warcraft have to die by legendary warriors?

 

[takakenji]

"Made by Muradin Bronzebeard"

Uh... What?

yep, the ashbinger was forged by Muradin Bronzebeard.

also, ashbringer "didn't appear out of nothing"

it was wielded by Alexandros Mograine, the first wielder of it in Naxxramas, who was now a Death Knight. Along with Alexandros, the Ashbringer became the Corrupted Ashbringer. Then, in Wotlk, Alexandros' son, Darion Mograine, also becomes a Death Knight. Alexandros went missing and Darion took up the Corrupted Ashbringer, for the whole story check WoWwiki's Ashbringer page.

Anyways, after crushing the last uncorrupted part of Lordaeron, The Scarlet Enclave, the Lich King moved towards Light's Hope Chapel, the last bastion of Light in the Plaguelands. After a total ripoff of 300 spartans (there are 300 Light's Hope Guardians and 10,000 undead according to the number of troops on the top of your screen that appears during the event), Tirion Fordring comes and owns all the undead in some bolt of light thing. Then, the Lich King tries to attack Tirion and Maxwell Tyrosus, the leader of the Argent Dawn, yells "CHARGE". The Lich King owns everyone, and Darion throws the Ashbringer to Tirion, and Tirion purifies it. Then he owns the Lich King, there's a dialogue, blah blah.

If you havn't played WoW please don't say things about the Ashbringer since it HAS played a part.

edit: http://www.wowwiki.com/Ashbringer#The_Forging_of_Ashbringer a link
also, my bad, it was MAGNI bronzebeard who forged it, not Muradin.

 

[Snarewave]

Whats have Blizzard done?

 

[Fussiler1]

ashbringer, forged by the crystal of a naaru, made by muradin bronzebeard, slew countless undead through WC lore, wielded by the greatest paladins of all time.

what's wrong with ashbringer, again?

The crystal where the Ashbringer was made of was corrupted, and later the blade itself also got corrupted, thus you would conclude its holy powers weakened? Also, even if it slew countless undead, it didn't grow stronger by their deaths. Also, Magni Bronzebeard surely made it well, due to the anger about his brother, but it's not like he enchanted it?

 

[takakenji]

anger and hate are powerful weapons themselves

ask darth sidious

and the crystal was a crystal of a naaru, that itself makes it strong

also, the only reason ashbringer was corrupted was because renault killed his father, alexandros, with it, tainting it.

and, if you say "it can't be a naaru's crystal it was corrupted"

everything can be corrupted, good cannot exist without evil, this includes naaru.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Dark_naaru

 

[Fussiler1]

anger and hate are powerful weapons themselves

ask darth sidious

and the crystal was a crystal of a naaru, that itself makes it strong

also, the only reason ashbringer was corrupted was because renault killed his father, alexandros, with it, tainting it.

and, if you say "it can't be a naaru's crystal it was corrupted"

everything can be corrupted, good cannot exist without evil, this includes naaru.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Dark_naaru

Sure, you can use hate or anger in a battle or fight, or as a magician, but Magni wasn't a magician and nor fighting against something.

Also, it was already corrupted before Tirion got the crystal, but then it got cleansed. Sure it can be a Naaru crystal, but sure, wouldn't it be weakened or something .. ?

 

[takakenji]

Sure, you can use hate or anger in a battle or fight, or as a magician, but Magni wasn't a magician and nor fighting against something.

Also, it was already corrupted before Tirion got the crystal, but then it got cleansed. Sure it can be a Naaru crystal, but sure, wouldn't it be weakened or something .. ?

why would it get weaker?

 

[Fussiler1]

Because it got corrupted? You can't expect a man who was good at running, but practiced sleeping for a while, is immediatly good again in running.

 

[VeljkoM]

that would only make stuff worst, making it possible to NEVER have a lich king. A very tiny piece of a 'good' arthas remained within Arthas, keeping the undead under control and from totally going mad upon Azeroth. If there was noone to control the undead, they would roam wildly and be an even bigger threat.

This is not true.
1)
Most of undead are mindless, soulless and most importantly dead. Without Lich King they use purpose. Because they are dead they have no instincts or needs that would make them hunt and eat, without mind they can't think and can hardly get organized and without soul they have no emotions such as fear or satisfaction.In short nothing that would make them kill. They are more like tools then actual beings. And even if they would go wild they would be disorganized and unable to even cross ocean to come to Kalimdor or somewhere. Those in Eastern Kingdoms would be probably assimilated by Forsaken.

Then there are living part of scourge such as Necromancers, acolytes and rest. They aren't under direct control of Lich King rather then lured by promises of great power. And the new Lich King most certainly won't be one they follow. Also they would be required for creation of more undead and necromancers are the one who maintain control over mindless undead (abomination would be useless).

And then there are the Higher undead with will. Without Lich King one part of them would try to retake his place so we are talking about civil war, one part would try to redeem them selves and some would maybe even commit suicide. All of this examples can be already be sen (well maybe not suicide part).

And last they could become something like Forsaken. So the conclusion is they would certainly not be worse as they would with Lich King as one thing that holds them together. The thing Blizzard used here was the same with zergs but they were at least alive and had killing instincts.

2)

The so called "good" in Arthas as we all know didn't stop him to destroy everything that he has ever loved. So why would it stop him to destroy races he hates such as Forsaken, Naga, Blood elves, orcs )tho if some Ner'zhul was still in him he would think twice about orcs)...He would have no problem to kill them even when he was alive. Also he justified his actions up one his people by saying "Lordearon will be reborn..." and "I'll be twice the king my Father ever was".

The only reason for all of this so Lich King could appear in latter games because it is just mater of time before the burned guy turns evil (greater beings than him turned evil).

 

[takakenji]

This is not true.
1)
Most of undead are mindless, soulless and most importantly dead. Without Lich King they use purpose. Because they are dead they have no instincts or needs that would make them hunt and eat, without mind they can't think and can hardly get organized and without soul they have no emotions such as fear or satisfaction.In short nothing that would make them kill. They are more like tools then actual beings. And even if they would go wild they would be disorganized and unable to even cross ocean to come to Kalimdor or somewhere. Those in Eastern Kingdoms would be probably assimilated by Forsaken.

Then there are living part of scourge such as Necromancers, acolytes and rest. They aren't under direct control of Lich King rather then lured by promises of great power. And the new Lich King most certainly won't be one they follow. Also they would be required for creation of more undead and necromancers are the one who maintain control over mindless undead (abomination would be useless).

And then there are the Higher undead with will. Without Lich King one part of them would try to retake his place so we are talking about civil war, one part would try to redeem them selves and some would maybe even commit suicide. All of this examples can be already be sen (well maybe not suicide part).

And last they could become something like Forsaken. So the conclusion is they would certainly not be worse as they would with Lich King as one thing that holds them together. The thing Blizzard used here was the same with zergs but they were at least alive and had killing instincts.

2)

The so called "good" in Arthas as we all know didn't stop him to destroy everything that he has ever loved. So why would it stop him to destroy races he hates such as Forsaken, Naga, Blood elves, orcs )tho if some Ner'zhul was still in him he would think twice about orcs)...He would have no problem to kill them even when he was alive. Also he justified his actions up one his people by saying "Lordearon will be reborn..." and "I'll be twice the king my Father ever was".

The only reason for all of this so Lich King could appear in latter games because it is just mater of time before the burned guy turns evil (greater beings than him turned evil).

i only have one thing to say to that

"tell blizzard"

they made it, so you can't prove it wrong.

you're basically argueing over a fact blizzard made, i don't care if you don't believe me but i'm fine knowing i'm right because this is coming RIGHT from blizzard, no speculations at all.

like i said, if you havn't done your research, don't bother commenting

 

[VeljkoM]

They also publicly said that Arthats and Ner'zhul are one but it was changed because of novel.

And I am not saying you are lying. I am saying it is stupid what Blizzard has done as usually. I have done my research but I also have right to say what I think of it.

 

[takakenji]

They also publicly said that Arthats and Ner'zhul are one but it was changed because of novel.

And I am not saying you are lying. I am saying it is stupid what Blizzard has done as usually. I have done my research but I also have right to say what I think of it.

i know, i hate some of blizzards decisions and i like some of them but we can't do much

also, bolvar may be the lich king but he still has his heart, and theres a huge doubt he'd ever go evil.

 

[VeljkoM]

That was the case for Arthas and many more. Also Blizzard kinda does make many characters crazy like Keal and many more.

And I am glad there is no more misunderstanding.

 

[Tyranid]

Crazy and Amnesia are at the moment Blizzard's favourite keywords for "character development".

 

[Kwaliti]

Some guy on MMO Champion made a detailed analysis of the whole ending scene, and some stuff just seems plausible. Check it out:

It seems the general consensus among the forums is that this cinematic was disappointing, anti-climactic, and lacking a true purpose. I won't lie, at first glance I thought that to, but through watching the video enough times, and analyzing it extensively, I would like to share my thoughts on the subject. I will break down the video into significant parts, and elaborate on them

• First: King Terenas Menthil II. Okay, understandable. First Uther appeared, now Arthas' own father. There to say I told you so. But it's not really his father. In the Halls of Reflection, Uther's ghost presents to us this BRAND NEW and UNHEARD OF fact...That there must ALWAYS BE A LICH KING. Okay, dead-man's trigger. Clever Blizz. But that wasn't the purpose. NER'ZHUL. The grand warlock. The cunning orc who out smarted the entirety of the Burning Legion. The driving force behind Arthas' corruption into the Lich King. He made Uther appear to us. he gave us the idea of a new Lich King. Why? Arthas was turning against him. He was weak. His corruption had been lengthy, and he was still in society throughout it all. He wasn't broken well enough. And he had turned. Ner'zhul knew he must get rid of his conduit, and he also knew he'd need another. So here comes the idea: Tell the future King Slayers that they must find another soul to be damned to be the "Jailer of the Damned". Now it's Terenas. Listen closely. He has a double voice. Hmmm...Someone else had a double voice this entire expansion. Ner'zhul summoned this ghost, and used it to further lure Tiron into believing he must find a new Lich King, that the rule should not and could not be destroyed. That the cycle cannot (or is it really must not?) end.

• Second: Tirion Fordring holding the helm of the Lich King. Now it may seem logical, even righteous and selfless for him to want to take the "burden" of being the Lich King. But listen carefully to his tone, and especially his word choice. "The weight of such a burden...it MUST be mine." Must. Seems like an okay word, maybe a bit strong, but we'll let it slide. But he emphasizes it so much. It's a inflection which makes us believe he craves it. And to reinforce this, it shows his reflection in the helm. But two of them. This is to communicate to us that our champion of the Light is, in fact, being corrupted just by holding the crown. Subtle, but nonetheless there.

• Third Fiery, ugly, forceful Bolvar Fordragon. He is riddled with subtle queues as to what is really going on. First, his voice. Even while his "normal" form, he has a double voice, the second being subtle, but there. Perhaps Ner'zhul again? Yes. Where Ner'zhul failed with the corruption of Arthas, he would not fail with this Paladin of the Light. He broke Bolvar DIRECTLY. He made sure that there would be no vestige of whom he used to be left. He had him purged by the Dragon's Flame. Why? So he would be stronger than Arthas. Immune to even more powers that might be stacked against him; the great Aspects.

A major thing that implies to us that Bolvar is not the same (despite his overwhelming contempt in his voice) is that he says "the world of the living can no longer comfort me". He wants Tirion to believe he understands his fate, but really, he has known his fate, and he knows he is not meant to be anything other than the Lich King. Another intriguing case of word choice; instead of asking Tirion to give him the helm, Bolvar says "place the crown upon my head". Okay, why not put it on himself? Because, kings NEVER put on there own crown when being inducted into kingship. And guess what? This is Bolvar's induction into kingship. He demands Tiron give place the crown upon his head, getting even more forceful. Why? Because if he doesn't get this crown..well then his motives become known. And as he states, the crown is his. His "last act of service" (as Bolvar) isn't really a service to the people of Azeroth. During the kinging process, Bolvar tells Tirion he MUST be forgotten, claiming its for the good of the people. But what if it's a cover, what if he needs time to rebuild the kingdom of the damned? To raise more armies? To use his new powers as the Lich King? All an elaborate (and well crafted) cover.

• Fourth: Bolvar, the new Lich King. MAJOR voice change. The second voice is noticeable. It's no longer being hidden. He tells Tirion to say that the Lich King AND Bolvar died there. Because Bolvar is dead. No longer is the benevolent, righteous, strong herald of the Light in existence. He has been corrupted into Ner'zhul's champion, into the perfect Lich King.

And at the end, the biggest part of the WHOLE ENTIRE CINEMATIC. "Leave this place and never return". Cool ending line. But listen. Where is Bolvar's voice? Who's voice is that? Is that...and orc? Ner'zhul has achieved complete control over a new conduit. His power is complete once more.

 

[Deolrin]

Fan speculation. It's all fan speculation... But he DOES make some sense. Only time will tell, I guess.

 

[dead-man-walking]

Errr.... Forged by Muradin? Wasn't Magni the one who forged the Goddamned Frickin' Ashhole Blade?

 

[takakenji]

read the thread pl0x

i just said that