- Joined
- Jun 19, 2017
- Messages
- 12
TL;DR version: I want you in-depth insight on global mechanical differences between SC2 and War3 please. Thank you very much!
Hello,
So I can't really play SC1/2 and War3 if my life depended on it, I space out all the time and my micro is the worst. I barely beat the campaigns. However, I've been following both Starcraft and Warcraft casters for a while now, and I greatly enjoy watching all three games, especially SC2.
It is obvious games are rather different. Starcraft is way more macro oriented and almost boils down to numbers, game starts right away, expansions are taken way earlier, units move and die faster, workers are built and killed almost non-stop, maps always have ramps and almost every fight happens at someone's base. Warcraft, on the other hand, is all about micro, bodyblocks, hero exp, creeping/harrass, item usage, etc. It starts slow, armies are smaller, you rarely see players sitting on 4+ expansions, you get my drift.
So I've been thinking hard lately on what would a Warcraft altered melee map look like, if it tried to be more like Starcraft 2, but still retain core of Warcraft features? I've boiled it down to a number of factors to just serve as an origin point for balancing (I fully realize these are very-very crude):
1. population cap: 100 low upkeep, 160 high upkeep, 200 max
2. supply buildings give +50% food
3. collision sizes: 15 small infantry, 30 cavalry/medium infantry, 45 brutes/heroes/mech, 60 ships
4. non-hero, non-worker units are trained 20% faster, cost 20% less gold (same lumber)
5. non-hero units have 20% less hp
6. non-worker units move 10% faster
7. design map with a lot of expansions and lumber, defensible locations with ramps you can wall off (with a small unbuildable area on top of the ramp, because the way it works in War3 atm is just trolling material)
8. add optional naval routes, creeps, resource island and units to exploit those
9. stronger creep camps (and maybe items they drop)
10. introduce additional units, heroes and features to every faction to spice it up
11. bundle a custom QWER customkeys.txt setup with the map for non-building, non-worker abilities, that would also NOT rearrange buttons like WTVR setup does for example
So, general idea is to allow a player pump out more units faster, with bigger, yet more fragile army taking more resources, meaning more expansions (especially more lumber harvesting) and more vulnerable/costly workers always being a target for harass. Faster units and unit production to start off fun quicker, empower rush strategies (that would have to be walled off at ramps). Smaller collision sizes and slightly faster movement to tone down importance of micro a little bit and let those big armies traverse terrain easier, as well as making it more vulnerable to AoE. More experience and stronger items to empower heroes and provide challenge for bigger armies. Naval routes, creeps and island resource bases to introduce War's own version of drop-heavy, out-of-boundaries harrass. New units and features to deal with emergent gameplay (for example: there are naval units, so there must be heroes that would complement them). And finally, optional non-intrusive QWER setup to allow both old and new players to enjoy the map without messing with anyone's habits.
Do you think I am missing something? Summoning melee-balancing-big-brains to this thread. Especially if you play StarCraft, I want your in-depth insight on mechanical differences between starcraft and warcraft. Pretty please.
Thank you for the read!
Hello,
So I can't really play SC1/2 and War3 if my life depended on it, I space out all the time and my micro is the worst. I barely beat the campaigns. However, I've been following both Starcraft and Warcraft casters for a while now, and I greatly enjoy watching all three games, especially SC2.
It is obvious games are rather different. Starcraft is way more macro oriented and almost boils down to numbers, game starts right away, expansions are taken way earlier, units move and die faster, workers are built and killed almost non-stop, maps always have ramps and almost every fight happens at someone's base. Warcraft, on the other hand, is all about micro, bodyblocks, hero exp, creeping/harrass, item usage, etc. It starts slow, armies are smaller, you rarely see players sitting on 4+ expansions, you get my drift.
So I've been thinking hard lately on what would a Warcraft altered melee map look like, if it tried to be more like Starcraft 2, but still retain core of Warcraft features? I've boiled it down to a number of factors to just serve as an origin point for balancing (I fully realize these are very-very crude):
1. population cap: 100 low upkeep, 160 high upkeep, 200 max
2. supply buildings give +50% food
3. collision sizes: 15 small infantry, 30 cavalry/medium infantry, 45 brutes/heroes/mech, 60 ships
4. non-hero, non-worker units are trained 20% faster, cost 20% less gold (same lumber)
5. non-hero units have 20% less hp
6. non-worker units move 10% faster
7. design map with a lot of expansions and lumber, defensible locations with ramps you can wall off (with a small unbuildable area on top of the ramp, because the way it works in War3 atm is just trolling material)
8. add optional naval routes, creeps, resource island and units to exploit those
9. stronger creep camps (and maybe items they drop)
10. introduce additional units, heroes and features to every faction to spice it up
11. bundle a custom QWER customkeys.txt setup with the map for non-building, non-worker abilities, that would also NOT rearrange buttons like WTVR setup does for example
So, general idea is to allow a player pump out more units faster, with bigger, yet more fragile army taking more resources, meaning more expansions (especially more lumber harvesting) and more vulnerable/costly workers always being a target for harass. Faster units and unit production to start off fun quicker, empower rush strategies (that would have to be walled off at ramps). Smaller collision sizes and slightly faster movement to tone down importance of micro a little bit and let those big armies traverse terrain easier, as well as making it more vulnerable to AoE. More experience and stronger items to empower heroes and provide challenge for bigger armies. Naval routes, creeps and island resource bases to introduce War's own version of drop-heavy, out-of-boundaries harrass. New units and features to deal with emergent gameplay (for example: there are naval units, so there must be heroes that would complement them). And finally, optional non-intrusive QWER setup to allow both old and new players to enjoy the map without messing with anyone's habits.
Do you think I am missing something? Summoning melee-balancing-big-brains to this thread. Especially if you play StarCraft, I want your in-depth insight on mechanical differences between starcraft and warcraft. Pretty please.
Thank you for the read!
