Promotion V1.24

[Moderator]

01:43, 27th Jan 2011
Cweener: Approved
I don't have time to go too in depth, but it looked pretty decent.
I liked it.

 

[MJC008]

Dota style map with some capture point objectives. Its a playable map, not exactly my favorite type of gameplay but I did find it enjoyable.

Good: AI works great, capture points make the gameplay strategic, choice of different characters.

Bad: Two of the characters (Archer and Footman) are used for the same purpose making the builder the only unique one, lots of bugs, no way to control where the AI attacks, Blizzard terrain (I like to see custom ones but this wont effect the rating).

Bugs: Builder couldn't build (ruining its purpose), if I bought a unit I could not control it and it would just stand there doing nothing, the blacksmith required a town-hall which doesn't exist in this game.

Infested with bugs but playable and kinda fun with buddies around

2/5 Vote for approval

 

[light bolt30]

You should maybe add some more doodads to the terrain, since it's quite empty in some parts.

 

[shadire]

Good: AI and capture points prove interesting game play

Bad: Cannot build, romans did not have cannons for cannon towers, they had no such medieval masonry, they did not have flying vaults with arcane runes, builder cannot repair, town-halls don't exist for black smiths, cannot use trained units

Suggestions:Use some custom models, add doodads, custom abilities for the heroes, and of course fix the bugs

Overall Rating: 2/5

 

[MJC008]

Romans had cannons in towers, flying vaults however are a mystery to me.

 

[samljh]

cannot use trained units

it's stated in game that you cant use trained battle units

 

[StefanH2068]

Yes, I did state in the game via a message sent to the builder upon selection that they are not allowed to use military units. However, I acknowledge that this is probably extremely easy to forget, so I set it on my list of things to fix. I decided to just switch ownership of SPQR/Carthage trained military units to one of the AI bots unless a user has the promotion level that allows them to use them.

Coming in next version (likely to be uploaded by the end of the week):
-Builder fixes (can build, promotions work)
-Fix to the military units problem with builders (as mentioned above)
-Removal of mask of death from possible dragon item drops (too powerful)
-Fixing of techtree, so teams can research technologies efficiently (co-research)
-Custom/fixed hero abilities
-Changing of "Cannon Tower" to "Onager Tower" (much more Roman)
-Blacksmith fixes
-Changing of "Arcane Vault" to "Army Supply Store", for the same reasons as the above (plus different model)
-More doodads and beautification bits

 

[Eldubs]

Stefan who exactly helped you test the map? Was he finish? What was his account name?

 

[Luffy]

reserved. I am looking forward for your next version, I will test that one

 

[StefanH2068]

Stefan who exactly helped you test the map? Was he finish? What was his account name?

There are several who helped me test the map:
Hasian- American, and my friend in RL
VietHoang- American, and my friend in RL.
B.cro- Random person that was quite helpful we found on Garena Europe rooms. He might be finnish?

 

[Eldubs]

I just happen to know a Viet Hoang in real life also, thats why i was curious

 

[StefanH2068]

I just happen to know a Viet Hoang in real life also, thats why i was curious

Oh, haha, my friend's name is supposed to be a play on "Viet cong".

Version 1/12/11 updated.

 

[RiotZ]

Good: AI and capture points prove interesting game play

Bad: Cannot build, romans did not have cannons for cannon towers, they had no such medieval masonry, they did not have flying vaults with arcane runes, builder cannot repair, town-halls don't exist for black smiths, cannot use trained units

Suggestions:Use some custom models, add doodads, custom abilities for the heroes, and of course fix the bugs

Overall Rating: 2/5

Half of what you said is inaccurate, nice attempt to give "Unconstructive Criticism" you one post noob. -.-

 

[StefanH2068]

Half of what you said is inaccurate, nice attempt to give "Unconstructive Criticism" you one post noob. -.-

In his defense, what he said was accurate for the version that was out when his comment was made. That was the much more crude version- it was the first upload. If you look at the changelog, I've made two updates to the game since then, and I fixed the problems he mentioned in those updates.

 

[Eldubs]

Still he is a one post noob :/

 

[RiotZ]

I rather hate when idiotic 21 minute members start pissing on peoples' projects. Excuse me for getting upset.

 

[Naman]

the income level is way too high... i found myself stuck with 20000 gold and 10000 wood by the end of the game. also the food limit should increase as u rank up. and u should be able to get kills easier in the beginning

 

[StefanH2068]

the income level is way too high... i found myself stuck with 20000 gold and 10000 wood by the end of the game. also the food limit should increase as u rank up. and u should be able to get kills easier in the beginning

I just recently fixed the income mass, and also did increase the food limit as you rank in the last version as well. I'm making a couple more fixes then updating with that version.

Naman, the "difficulty" in the beginning is kind of the point- you have to do well as a soldier to rank up in the first place.

(Besides, when we tested this, you weren't exactly the most productive of your team members)

 

[Naman]

I just recently fixed the income mass, and also did increase the food limit as you rank in the last version as well. I'm making a couple more fixes then updating with that version.

Naman, the "difficulty" in the beginning is kind of the point- you have to do well as a soldier to rank up in the first place.

(Besides, when we tested this, you weren't exactly the most productive of your team members)

EXACTLY AND IT WAS NOT FUN I LIKE TO WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and u should make all the fountains hp and mana

 

[StefanH2068]

EXACTLY AND IT WAS NOT FUN I LIKE TO WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and u should make all the fountains hp and mana

Haha Naman, I can't make the map just so you specifically can win it all the time. I'm working on the fountains, as they present an irritating problem when people are attacking bases. I'm thinking I will make each team's fountain either only heal their team or stop healing when an enemy gets into the base and resume when they leave.

I'll probably add mana regen to the fountains, but I'm removing the fire arrows ability anyway. It was a little too powerful.

 

[Naman]

Haha Naman, I can't make the map just so you specifically can win it all the time. I'm working on the fountains, as they present an irritating problem when people are attacking bases. I'm thinking I will make each team's fountain either only heal their team or stop healing when an enemy gets into the base and resume when they leave.

I'll probably add mana regen to the fountains, but I'm removing the fire arrows ability anyway. It was a little too powerful.

I got a great idea! You should make the player's hero at first only be able to train their own unit (archer=archer, footman=footman, builder=peasant?ballista?) and make their version of the unit slightly stronger than the empire versions. The players will gradually unlock the other two unit types/ research the other two unit types. Also u should have an item shop that sells items based on class. Each hero gets one armor, weapon, other item and 3 pots or something and then u can upgrade each item (except pots obviously) and at max level u can add a magic type to it (ex. fire 25% flamestrike on attack ice 25% frost nova on attack etc.) for armors you could do ice = slows enemy when attacked fire = damage to enemy when attacked

Also you should be able to upgrade your units instead of them starting off fully upgraded, and at highest rank you should be "blessed by a Roman God" and then become op so that the game will end faster... because you can stalemate for a long time due to income levels/towers

 

[StefanH2068]

I got a great idea! You should make the player's hero at first only be able to train their own unit (archer=archer, footman=footman, builder=peasant?ballista?) and make their version of the unit slightly stronger than the empire versions. The players will gradually unlock the other two unit types/ research the other two unit types. Also u should have an item shop that sells items based on class. Each hero gets one armor, weapon, other item and 3 pots or something and then u can upgrade each item (except pots obviously) and at max level u can add a magic type to it (ex. fire 25% flamestrike on attack ice 25% frost nova on attack etc.) for armors you could do ice = slows enemy when attacked fire = damage to enemy when attacked

Also you should be able to upgrade your units instead of them starting off fully upgraded, and at highest rank you should be "blessed by a Roman God" and then become op so that the game will end faster... because you can stalemate for a long time due to income levels/towers

In response to your first bit: nah, you get one hero at the start. That's it, get promoted already!

Items: I might make custom items and stuff, but I'm more focused on the strategy than the heroes- this is supposed to be more strategy than RPG. Heroes should actually be a bit weaker I think...

...Your units don't start out fully upgraded, Naman. That was your ally that upgraded your team's units. You just didn't notice, haha.

There will be no OP heroes thank you- I'm just fixing the towers/income thing instead. Towers now cost food, so you can only have so many towers. Be smart about placement.

 

[Naman]

In response to your first bit: nah, you get one hero at the start. That's it, get promoted already!

Items: I might make custom items and stuff, but I'm more focused on the strategy than the heroes- this is supposed to be more strategy than RPG. Heroes should actually be a bit weaker I think...

...Your units don't start out fully upgraded, Naman. That was your ally that upgraded your team's units. You just didn't notice, haha.

There will be no OP heroes thank you- I'm just fixing the towers/income thing instead. Towers now cost food, so you can only have so many towers. Be smart about placement.

well if its more about strategy then the heroes were way too op compared to the units...

 

[Cokemonkey11]

Could you update the description with some screenshots? I'm curious about it but not yet enough to download it and test it myself.

 

[StefanH2068]

Could you update the description with some screenshots? I'm curious about it but not yet enough to download it and test it myself.

I've now added two screenshots from in-game.

 

[Cokemonkey11]

Thanks. Looks like you put a lot of effort into this map.

Voting for approval.

 

[Tleno]

Hmmm, maybe you should like make custom items or someway change the description/icon of original ones?

 

[Great Chief Aeon]

Ya Yeah
the map is good, used custom models... but you could change the name of the creeps to something else and give them custom models too...
made the game be harder.

 

[StefanH2068]

I'm getting on changing the icons, etc. to keep the game from vanilla-warcraft feel. I already changed many of the units' icons. I guess I should probably change the items- right now the "army supply store" has mostly basic arcane vault items, and the Merchants have basic goblin merchant ones.

I'll get on the creeps- I do acknowledge that golems, trolls, and dragons aren't very Roman

 

[Great Chief Aeon]

I'm getting on changing the icons, etc. to keep the game from vanilla-warcraft feel. I already changed many of the units' icons. I guess I should probably change the items- right now the "army supply store" has mostly basic arcane vault items, and the Merchants have basic goblin merchant ones.

I'll get on the creeps- I do acknowledge that golems, trolls, and dragons aren't very Roman

Okay, but i see other error...
The Carthaginian Army have roman units, its wrong, The Hastati or Hastatus is Roman Only, the carthaginians use pikemans, just like the Macedonians. and Heavy Spearmans as well.
The Carthaginian Cavalry is not Equites, is Sacred Band Cavalry.
Carthaginians dont use archers, only slingers (They used some archers in their last battles).
And the Legionary is used only by romans, Seleucids, Some times egypt, Numidia and Armenia, the carthaginians uses a infantry of swords called Iberian Infantry.


Other Errors, when you alone destroy a regional settlement it is destroyed, make it belongs to the Attacker before its destroyed...

 

[Great Chief Aeon]

Another Hint, is make the units far more slower. make sense the map is very huge, and rename for example: Hastatus to Legion of Hastatus
To make the game alike Rome Total War
1 unit is 1 legion of 50 units, mading the map seems to very Huge
You can Rename de Trolls or other critters to Barbarians

 

[StefanH2068]

Another Hint, is make the units far more slower. make sense the map is very huge, and rename for example: Hastatus to Legion of Hastatus
To make the game alike Rome Total War
1 unit is 1 legion of 50 units, mading the map seems to very Huge
You can Rename de Trolls or other critters to Barbarians

I completely guessed you were an RTW player from your first post, haha. In my most recent update I'm changing all the trolls, etc. to bandits and hydras. Much more Roman. I will likely change the names of Carthage's units, but I'll make sure the stats are the same (for balance). Perhaps I'll acquire different models for the Carthage units.

 

[Great Chief Aeon]

I completely guessed you were an RTW player from your first post, haha. In my most recent update I'm changing all the trolls, etc. to bandits and hydras. Much more Roman. I will likely change the names of Carthage's units, but I'll make sure the stats are the same (for balance). Perhaps I'll acquire different models for the Carthage units.

Thanks man
you are right, im a great player in rome total war.. all my battles are in very Hard and 30% of them are Heroic victorys, and only 7 defeats...
My Estrategies are much good, im trying to play online but computer dont accept the program
Im one of the great folowers of "Prince_of_Macedon" one of the Best RTW Players, without any doubt...
Anyway
Hydras are greeks not romans... Bandits are originally came from the Persian Empire, Assassins as well...
But Keep using roman things, you should made something else than this map, about battles, or Gladiator Games, you are good map maker
And i guess that you are a AOM (Age of Mythology) player, you know much about Mith Cratures... is it true??

 

[StefanH2068]

Thanks man
you are right, im a great player in rome total war.. all my battles are in very Hard and 30% of them are Heroic victorys, and only 7 defeats...
My Estrategies are much good, im trying to play online but computer dont accept the program
Im one of the great folowers of "Prince_of_Macedon" one of the Best RTW Players, without any doubt...
Anyway
Hydras are greeks not romans... Bandits are originally came from the Persian Empire, Assassins as well...
But Keep using roman things, you should made something else than this map, about battles, or Gladiator Games, you are good map maker
And i guess that you are a AOM (Age of Mythology) player, you know much about Mith Cratures... is it true??

You are correct in your assumption that I am an AOM player as well- I do have a thorough knowledge of all of the Myth Units of the game. I chose to include hydras because, like many Greek myths, the Romans adopted Hercules and the Hydra. In fact, the Romans came up with the word "Hydra"- the Greeks have some crazy, unpronounceable word for it (as with everything, haha...). Also, they were entertaining to use for the map and indeed made the central creep area that much more difficult.
While the word "Bandit" itself actually comes from Germanic languages, people whom we would call "bandits" existed throughout every ancient civilization. I will most likely rename them to something in Latin, such as "Homo Sacer" ("accused man", of very similar meaning to "bandit").
The term "assassin" certainly sprang from the Arabian "Hashashin", an order of what we could call "assassins" that were purported to use Hashish alot... Again, Roman rename time!

I will likely stick to the Roman theme with any maps I create- It is a favorite of mine, and I do have a request from one of my friends to create a "Heroes and Empires" type map.

 

[Naman]

the map is pretty complete right now but you can always add more (items, heroes, spells, units, upgrades) but if u are going to work on devins hae style map you should probably just make a final version cuz hae will probably take a lot of work

 

[Great Chief Aeon]

You are correct in your assumption that I am an AOM player as well- I do have a thorough knowledge of all of the Myth Units of the game. I chose to include hydras because, like many Greek myths, the Romans adopted Hercules and the Hydra. In fact, the Romans came up with the word "Hydra"- the Greeks have some crazy, unpronounceable word for it (as with everything, haha...). Also, they were entertaining to use for the map and indeed made the central creep area that much more difficult.
While the word "Bandit" itself actually comes from Germanic languages, people whom we would call "bandits" existed throughout every ancient civilization. I will most likely rename them to something in Latin, such as "Homo Sacer" ("accused man", of very similar meaning to "bandit").
The term "assassin" certainly sprang from the Arabian "Hashashin", an order of what we could call "assassins" that were purported to use Hashish alot... Again, Roman rename time!

I will likely stick to the Roman theme with any maps I create- It is a favorite of mine, and I do have a request from one of my friends to create a "Heroes and Empires" type map.

Well i play AOM as well, it is one of my favorite ones

Yes Thats Right!!
The "Assassins" started to exist in Persia. The first time that one of them was known by the people of the attacked country was macedon, when the persians assassined the king. then Alexander attacked back them...
About the "Bandits", i haved no knowledge about this "Homo Sacer" name, thanks, now i know more about them. Well in that case, i think the why of "Bandits" is the Pillage, just like the orcs, they pillage the enemy then thats where Bandits Come from...

Summarizing about the Hydra, the romans steal everything from greek culture and use on their own culture, that include the gods.
About the "crazy, unpronounceable word" well, thats wrong, just because you cant say the word, that dont mean this word is crazy

Keep going with this map, you should be proud of these ideas

 

[StefanH2068]

Well i play AOM as well, it is one of my favorite ones

Yes Thats Right!!
The "Assassins" started to exist in Persia. The first time that one of them was known by the people of the attacked country was macedon, when the persians assassined the king. then Alexander attacked back them...
About the "Bandits", i haved no knowledge about this "Homo Sacer" name, thanks, now i know more about them. Well in that case, i think the why of "Bandits" is the Pillage, just like the orcs, they pillage the enemy then thats where Bandits Come from...

Summarizing about the Hydra, the romans steal everything from greek culture and use on their own culture, that include the gods.
About the "crazy, unpronounceable word" well, thats wrong, just because you cant say the word, that dont mean this word is crazy

Keep going with this map, you should be proud of these ideas

Yup, the Romans were huge culture-stealers, particularly from the Greeks. I'm a student of Latin, and I of all people certainly understand that most of the "Roman" stuff is really renamed Greek. Sadly, I don't think Warcraft III has Greek characters in its script, and also most people can more easily recognize the Roman-named version of most mythological creatures.

I got Latin names for the Bandit-people. "Accused one", "Wicked man", "Priest of Shadow", etc. I also found one name for a bandit- "Columnarius". I used it for the Brigands.

 

[Great Chief Aeon]

Yup, the Romans were huge culture-stealers, particularly from the Greeks. I'm a student of Latin, and I of all people certainly understand that most of the "Roman" stuff is really renamed Greek. Sadly, I don't think Warcraft III has Greek characters in its script, and also most people can more easily recognize the Roman-named version of most mythological creatures.

I got Latin names for the Bandit-people. "Accused one", "Wicked man", "Priest of Shadow", etc. I also found one name for a bandit- "Columnarius". I used it for the Brigands.

Better then...
but anyway
GREAT Work
Brigands is a wrong name used in Wc3, Should be Skirmisher not Brigand
Brigands are the "Barbarian Rebels" the rebels from gaul, britain and german peoples... Each type of rebel have a name

 

[Great Chief Aeon]

Okay... I forget something...
I forget to say that Trolls are not Carthaginian, Roman or Even Greek... Is Nordic People, Viking in other words... Trolls and Hammatrolls (Trolls with two Heads) for hammatrolls you could use the Ogre model... The Ogre is not Two Headed is only one, because of it on my maps that include Ogres on it, I change the model to Stonemaul Ogre, they are only one headed.

 

[StefanH2068]

Okay... I forget something...
I forget to say that Trolls are not Carthaginian, Roman or Even Greek... Is Nordic People, Viking in other words... Trolls and Hammatrolls (Trolls with two Heads) for hammatrolls you could use the Ogre model... The Ogre is not Two Headed is only one, because of it on my maps that include Ogres on it, I change the model to Stonemaul Ogre, they are only one headed.

How long has it been since you DLed a new version? I replaced all of the trolls/ogres/etc. with more Roman-y creeps a very long time ago.

Yeah, I know trolls are of Norse origin.

By the way, you might not want to base your knowledge of mythology solely upon video games like AOM- they're meant to be fun, and are not necessarily accurate in all respects. I actually study this stuff academically, and compete Nationally.

 

[Great Chief Aeon]

How long has it been since you DLed a new version? I replaced all of the trolls/ogres/etc. with more Roman-y creeps a very long time ago.

Yeah, I know trolls are of Norse origin.

By the way, you might not want to base your knowledge of mythology solely upon video games like AOM- they're meant to be fun, and are not necessarily accurate in all respects. I actually study this stuff academically, and compete Nationally.

lol i dont base my nkowledge on that game i knew alot of Mytology things by looking in internet, i wanna mean
i see... Troll in the game, i see i have curiosity to know more about they and search in internet... not based on it...

i think too you can add more terrain work on map, change the carthaginian region of the map into a barren desert... (if you dont know how) you can do selecting "Advanced" > "Modify Tileset" > "Custom Tileset" > "Change the Desired Tileset" After the "Number 1 Tiles"

 

[StefanH2068]

lol i dont base my nkowledge on that game i knew alot of Mytology things by looking in internet, i wanna mean
i see... Troll in the game, i see i have curiosity to know more about they and search in internet... not based on it...

i think too you can add more terrain work on map, change the carthaginian region of the map into a barren desert... (if you dont know how) you can do selecting "Advanced" > "Modify Tileset" > "Custom Tileset" > "Change the Desired Tileset" After the "Number 1 Tiles"

Haha, I definitely know about how to change a tileset- I used that to make the map use the "Ashenvale" tileset instead of "Lordaeron Summer", and I added the "Round tiles" texture to use for the bases.

I don't have enough tileset space left on the map for "Barren desert" tiles- besides, I'm more going for a Roman vs. Carthage battle over a section of woodland with a river. I'm not going for an overarching "Punic war", just a battle in the war.

EDIT:
Also, while surfing the net, I came across something that highly vexed me.
My map (PromotionProtected.w3x) was posted on EpicWar on Janurary 30.
EVERYONE: ASK ME FOR PERMISSION BEFORE POSTING MY MAP ANYWHERE!

I have requested to the site admins that the map be removed from Epicwar. This Hiveworkshop page is the only place where Promotion is to be found at the moment, and I want to keep it that way.

 

[Great Chief Aeon]

Haha, I definitely know about how to change a tileset- I used that to make the map use the "Ashenvale" tileset instead of "Lordaeron Summer", and I added the "Round tiles" texture to use for the bases.

I don't have enough tileset space left on the map for "Barren desert" tiles- besides, I'm more going for a Roman vs. Carthage battle over a section of woodland with a river. I'm not going for an overarching "Punic war", just a battle in the war.

EDIT:
Also, while surfing the net, I came across something that highly vexed me.
My map (PromotionProtected.w3x) was posted on EpicWar on Janurary 30.
EVERYONE: ASK ME FOR PERMISSION BEFORE POSTING MY MAP ANYWHERE!

I have requested to the site admins that the map be removed from Epicwar. This Hiveworkshop page is the only place where Promotion is to be found at the moment, and I want to keep it that way.

WTF
Posting in sites without permition?! i hope someting bad happend for this person who done this...

I think you should do a diferent map... not of B.C years maps... try to do something that no one done before yet...

 

[Tleno]

Well, your map is not the only one which gets stolen, maps get stolen all the time. You can protect yourself from that using the Optimizer which also decreases thw filesize a bit, allowing you to immport more stuff (Other protection programms are useless since they are not that useful and they're just waste of time), also you can leave an official notification at begining of the game to people that original and real versions can only be found on Hiveworkshop.

 

[StefanH2068]

Well, your map is not the only one which gets stolen, maps get stolen all the time. You can protect yourself from that using the Optimizer which also decreases thw filesize a bit, allowing you to immport more stuff (Other protection programms are useless since they are not that useful and they're just waste of time), also you can leave an official notification at begining of the game to people that original and real versions can only be found on Hiveworkshop.

I already use Vexorian's Map Optimizer- luckily, the stolen version was protected, so they couldn't do much with it.
I'll probably end up saying in the loading screen than all versions are Hive-specific.

 

[Tleno]

Yes, do that. Say that you can get newest and oridingal versions only from Hiveworkshop.

 

[Great Chief Aeon]

Protectors... there is some tuturial in hiveworkshop showing how to use protectors?

These map Stealers are a trash to the Warcraft 3 game...
I remember i posted a map in epicwar in two days there was my map in a site called mapgenome (or something)... saying that was not me who created the map, the credits quest was not there anymore, and choiced even the map name to "The Worse Map Ever" and the original name was Five Impossible Bosses... Of the "Warchasers" kind of map... But the Worse type of map stealers are the ones that change the original map maker's name to his, saying that the map belongs to him... i see that happening bilions of thousends of times...

 

[Tleno]

Well, you can like make a thread asking about them or go to Tutorials section.

Indeed. Of course there are few ways how to ensure your map will not get ripped:
-Protection. Of course protection is bad for both good people and thieves, plus you should like still PM a pastebin link of unprotected version to moderator reviewing your map.
-Credits. Always leave the credits. Biggest and most acrtive thieves are too moronic to remove those.
-Don't upload to Epicwar. Better like upload it somewhere like Hive and tell on your map that you can get newest and unfaked vrsions of your map only there, anywhere else - fake.
-create a custom unit or dodad with custom name or description and hide it somewhere so nobody could notice it in data editor. Not often map thieves search for the hidden name of author all over the data editor...

 

[Great Chief Aeon]

-create a custom unit or dodad with custom name or description and hide it somewhere so nobody could notice it in data editor. Not often map thieves search for the hidden name of author all over the data editor...

Oks you wanna mean just like X Hero Siege, where in melee maps says: Upkeep they changed to: "Made by Sogat"
I really want do this but... The Largest problem is that i dont know how, i should go to the tuturials...
Thanks...