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Private servers...

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Level 14
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...are illegal!

Stop asking or discussing them, they are illegal. Even if you BUY the game in shop and play on private servers, that's still illegal.

Even if you had paid subscription and played on private servers, that's still illegal.

If you can't afford it, don't play it, problem solved.
[/rant]
 
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Althought Blizzard doesn't really care about the private servers. If they did there would be none, or then they would be pretty secret.
 
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By creating this thread, you have started a discussion over them, you do realize this I hope.

And they're not technically illegal, as in there is no law against them. A click through contract is hardly enforcible if you're not using Blizzards service, as they can't ban you from their servers and such. The worst you could get from playing a private server is an IP ban from Blizzard servers.

Show me any international or domestic law that clearly states:

The use of private servers on the MMORPG World of Warcraft is punishable by law.

And I will take it all back.
 
Level 14
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By creating this thread, you have started a discussion over them, you do realize this I hope.

And they're not technically illegal, as in there is no law against them. A click through contract is hardly enforcible if you're not using Blizzards service, as they can't ban you from their servers and such. The worst you could get from playing a private server is an IP ban from Blizzard servers.

Show me any international or domestic law that clearly states:

The use of private servers on the MMORPG World of Warcraft is punishable by law.

And I will take it all back.
I hoped people would just accept it and stop the discussions,but since you push it - no problem.

From http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/termsofuse.html :
Only Blizzard or its licensees have the right to host the Game. You may not host or provide matchmaking services for the Game, or intercept, emulate or redirect the proprietary communication protocols used by Blizzard in connection with the Program, regardless of the method used to do so. Such prohibited methods may include, but are not limited to, protocol emulation, reverse engineering, modifying the Program, adding unauthorized components to the Program, or using a packet sniffer while the Program is running.

You have to agree to Terms of Use when installing WoW on your computer. It's unavoidable while installing WoW and as such you are bound to the rules.
 
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Click through contracts are hardly legal documents. I said law, not Terms of Use. I won't be thrown in jail for violating it, and I probably couldn't even be hit with a law suit. If I did I'm sure it would be thrown out. If I admitted to a judge, a cop, hell... maybe even a Blizzard employee that I used private servers, I doubt I would hear anything out of the cop or the judge, and maybe a "You shouldn't do that..." out of the Blizzard guy.

My point is that Blizzard's rules are NOT the law, therefore, they are not illegal. Blizzard's ToU are NOT international or domestic law, which is what I asked for. Even in the section that states what will happen if I do use one (or violate the ToU at all...):

BLIZZARD MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE THE ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME WITH ANY REASON OR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE. For purposes of explanation and not limitation, most account suspensions, terminations and/or deletions are the result of violations of this Terms of Use or the EULA.

I say go for it. Suspend my account. I got a private server to play on.
 
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What the hell are they going to do? Knock on our door and nick us? Bloody stupid... They can't stop us! Oh, and they won't!

Also, any contract (which that is) is treated as law if you pressed the little "I accept" button.

And if you click I Decline they ban you from the site for 2 weeks. This is a no win situation. You click agree to play the game, but then you go against the laws of their little community... Whoopty doo!
 
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The hole contract thing has been disscused before right here

THAT time it was over whether or not WoW Model/Map Viewer violated the click through contracts, and we came to the conclusion that they couldn't really do anything. For those that don't feel like reading through that thread, lemme give you what we came to in a quote.

*AHEM!*

Dr00d said:
But the ToU and the EULA are leagaly binging contracts right?
So could you be taken to trial by violating them? Thats the impression I'm under, but I'm no lawyer.

Ravious said:
Ha ha ha omg. Give me a minute. Roflmao. Okay...phew. Alright, I am not even going to begin teaching contract theory here, but the short answer is that most ToS, EULA's, etc. are very one-sided and give the creator of the "contract" way too many rights. These are also known as "click through" contracts. I haven't done recent research on them, but about a year ago or so the validity of this type of contract was largely untested. In my own personal opinion, I feel they are untested because the companies don't want to find out whether they are really valid, and if so what limitations must be put on them.

Now can Blizzard destroy your account in a murloc minute with a generally arbitrary, or even capricious, finding? You bet your ass. This does not mean they can take you to court.

Now knowing that Blizzard has superior rights to basically make sure none of us ever play WoW again... I will discuss file formats, exporting, and the like.

First, limits to digital media are generally frowned upon by courts. It is a separate issue from a copyright. You cannot copyright something and then disallow someone from using it the way they want to (barring copyright infringemen). That means when you reverse engineer a file format you are not breaking any copyrights. You might very well (and probably are) breaking a click through contract you "signed." But, this does not necessarily make you liable beyond account destruction.

Now exporting ANYTHING out of the .mpq not through the WoW client (and this is mostly focused to yaz0r) is copyright infringement. It does not matter that you merely let them view the model and not export it. A digital copy has been created outside the terms of your license with Blizzard to use the model, whether that "file" is in your RAM or as a .3ds file. So yaz0r, you really have already crossed the line by just creating a model viewer. Going the extra few steps to make the copy you allowed be created more accessible probably will not matter. (Note screenshots are not copyright infringement, although they could be, because Blizzard gives you a license to create them.)

Now before you go try and delete everything let me tell you:

Fair Use.

The almighty bane of copyright holders. Now this area is so murky and gray in American law, it is about as concrete as a sponge. However, it is very powerful. It allows things like fan-fiction, educational "hacking," parody, etc. to exist without the creator worrying about being liable for copyright infringement.

I cannot say how well using the WoW Model Viewer and creating your own scenes fits into fair use. If it is mostly for your own personal enjoyment, I would say you are probably okay. I can say, that if you use your creations for any commercial means, you will not be protected.

The other murky thing is the Tier 6 armors and what not. I would keep this information close within this community, or to yourself. Blizzard could come at you and say you are really hurting their game, community, or sales by releasing that information prior to Blizzard, or releasing that information in a way not allowed.

As you have read, by playing on a private server (and I'm pretty sure creating one), you're not exporting anything from the .MPQ, thus, not committing copyright infringement, thus not breaking any law, and therefore said servers are legal in the eyes of the law (NOT the eyes of Blizzard).
 
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We don't know that.

I haven't done recent research on them, but about a year ago or so the validity of this type of contract was largely untested. In my own personal opinion, I feel they are untested because the companies don't want to find out whether they are really valid, and if so what limitations must be put on them.

Hell, BLIZZARD doesn't even know that! =P
 
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Point is...

The worst they can do is not let you play on Blizzard severs, which doesn't matter to a lot of people on private servers. Theres no need to fear legal punishment. It's like if I had a rule at my house that you had to take you're shoes off, and you didn't, I can't get you arrested for it. I can kick you out, and thats about it.
 
As far as I know, since they made the game they can do whatever they want with your account, or CD key, or anything. So if they say private servers are illegal and you cant use them, than you cant use them, or they can ban your account\cd key or anything. Just becaus they have rights to ban you, though, doesnt mean they WILL.


But is the moderators say its NOT allowed to discuss\help\w/e it on this site, legal or not in your opinion, then you had better not.
 
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Point is...

The worst they can do is not let you play on Blizzard severs, which doesn't matter to a lot of people on private servers. Theres no need to fear legal punishment. It's like if I had a rule at my house that you had to take you're shoes off, and you didn't, I can't get you arrested for it. I can kick you out, and thats about it.

People have been sued LOTS of dollars and court shit involved, however, that was over hosting a server, way before they added joining servers as being taboo.
 
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You have to agree to Terms of Use when installing WoW on your computer. It's unavoidable while installing WoW and as such you are bound to the rules.
Unavoidable?
Is it possible to edit the program to exclude the license agreement?
Yes.
Does that mean I can play WoW without agreeing to all those things?
Yes.
Do the rights of Blizzard as the makers of the program come into the debate at this point?
Yes.
Does that mean it would take an international copyright lawyer to settle this debate?
Yes.
Didn't Earth-Fury say something like that?
Yes.
 
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I guess most of you arguing this point have NEVER played a private server in your life? Private servers ares for people who would rather enjoy a game. With most servers now, all of the 10 year olds are coming from all directions, begging high levels for rushes and gold. I'd rather play a private server with my Cousin and Uncle or friends. My friends, and cousin and uncle, aren't mindless kids like 80% of the WoW gaming population...

Also, what sort of a brainless idiot would WANT to pay 15 dollars to play a game when you can play it free??? Tis called COMMON SENSE! If you can play a P2P game FREE then do that by all means! The worst Blizzard CAN do is send you emails begging you to stop.

Also, when you go to play a private server, it lets you make a new account, so account bans do nothing. It's like banning Wirefist. You can't stop him breaking site rules (spamming.
 
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Kaitech[SanD];385580 said:
Also, what sort of a brainless idiot would WANT to pay 15 dollars to play a game when you can play it free??? Tis called ROBBERY FROM BLIZZARD SINCE THEY SAY NO PRIVATE SERVERS YET IDIOTIC THIEVES LIKE ME HAVE TO STEAL THE $15 SINCE I AM TOO CHEAP FOR BLIZZARD, YET STILL PLAY THEIR GAME!
Edited for truth.

Honestly, if you don't like the price, GTFO.
It is like saying, oh, I can't afford that TV, I'll just take it, I bet nobody will care.
Or torrents, or pirating music.
God, where the hell are your morals? Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
--donut3.5--
 
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So you'd rather waste your wages from work/paper round or make your parents scrounge up the money to play a game of which you could play free? I couldn't care WHAT I steal from Blizzard, because I can't get arrested for playing a private server. Anyway, I always take advantage of advantages.

You tell me where in the British Laws it says you are not allowed to play Private Servers. What can Blizzard do? Challenge you to a PVP match??
 
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Honestly, if you don't like the price, GTFO.
It is like saying, oh, I can't afford that TV, I'll just take it, I bet nobody will care.
Or torrents, or pirating music.
God, where the hell are your morals? Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
But if everybody can, then they simply cannot enforce it, and it should be done.
The reason that it's illegal to make and sell products that someone has patented, is because you're stealing their profits. However, since it is soooooooo easy to make copies of digital media and impossible to police, they should not make laws about it. They could make laws about what you can and can't think, but there is no way to enforce such laws. If they are worried about their profits, then they need to rethink how they sell stuff.
 
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Err...kai, jacek and me usta play on private servers together.

But seriously, I dislike your attitude on it as I know you are trying to validate your view with retarded shit when its not needed at all.

And they don't arrest you, they can sue you, but very unlikey..VERY.

I had a talk with my cousin who is at my house, he thinks its just a grey area since the company doesnt seem to stamp on those who "play" on them.
 
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Imagine you make a game. You had spent 5 years polishing it. You release it, expecting to get a lot of money from it. Suddenly one of user puts the game cd images on his site and advertises it everywhere. People don't want to be at disadvantage to those who download it for free, so they download it as well. As such you lose a lot of money.

would you try to sue the website's author then? Of course you would.

some of the posts are like kiddy "fuck police fuck them", but if someone robs you, and there's no police, where will you look for help? Mommy?
 
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also, I didn't want to discuss the ethics of private server. This is Ralle's site, he is responsible for it, and he doesn't want to break any laws or walk on unstable ground (that's why religious discussions are forbidden).
 
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Ok but seriously Blizzard could easily sue anyone who hosts a private server. I mean if Blizzard actually CARED about Private Servers, there most likely wouldn't be sites like xtremetop100.com that had top 100 WoW Private servers!

Also the 10 € (or something like that) per month is to keep the WoW servers ONLINE! But now WoW has so many players that Blizzard also rakes a whole lot of cash for themselves after paying for the servers, so they don't have to care about Private Servers.

Also Private Servers can also turn people to retail. People on Private Servers can for example think "I'm tired of these bugs and broken things, I want to experience the real retail with lots of players and more working stuff".
 
Kaitech[SanD];385595 said:
Killing is wrong.
Good gosh, what was donut just saying? Stealing is just as wrong as killing....


IMO, it is illegal to play any game for free that is costing others money, unless the people who made it spificly sell it for free.

So it is illegal. So like I said they have rights to sue or w/e they want. But, like I said, they probably wont.
 
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Jacek said:
Imagine you make a game. You had spent 5 years polishing it. You release it, expecting to get a lot of money from it. Suddenly one of user puts the game cd images on his site and advertises it everywhere. People don't want to be at disadvantage to those who download it for free, so they download it as well. As such you lose a lot of money.

would you try to sue the website's author then? Of course you would.

some of the posts are like kiddy "fuck police fuck them", but if someone robs you, and there's no police, where will you look for help? Mommy?

They would lose more money going after all the people that host or play on private servers. Theres millions of them, and tracking them all down and bringing up a lawsuit against every single one would take time and money that no one has. Legal fee's and private investigators cost thousands of dollars a week, and doing that 3.5 million times would just be dumb on their part. It's not nearly as expensive as not getting the $15 subscription payment from those people. You could spend $20,000 a month finding and suing one person, or you could not get $15 from that person. Yeah, it'd be smart for them to come after us. Blizzard is getting tons of cash anyway. I'm not sure what 15 x 8.5 million is... but I'm sure that it is enough for Blizzard to run and mantain their servers, pay their people, feed their family, and still have enough left over to live better then any of us will.

Plus, it's not even that big of an industry. More people go after bootlegging music and movies, and record companies/movie studios are trying to stop them, and they are losing tons of money over it. It's not the biggest piracy on the internet.

Jacek said:
also, I didn't want to discuss the ethics of private server. This is Ralle's site, he is responsible for it, and he doesn't want to break any laws or walk on unstable ground (that's why religious discussions are forbidden).

Ha, then go after Elenai for religious talk. I might also remind you that linking porn in chat is against Ralle's rules as well.

Now let's just let this thread die, you're not going to stop the talk or use of private servers.
 
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