[POLL] - Hero Design Challenge - MacGyver Mode

[Kyrbi0]

Challenge - Hero

Challenger: @Kyrbi0 Opponent: @Direfury

Challenge Type: Function: Hero Design Form: "MacGyver"/Retrofit

Challenge Duration: Until We Are Done (Probably One (1) Week to One (1) Month) Proposed Reputation Award: 15 Points Challenge Winner Determined By: Single-Vote Public Poll (X%) & Judge (@Rufus) (X%)

Challengers were to create one (1) Hero each for the standard melee game from the base Object Editor data of another existing melee Hero, without any triggers or any custom resources.

Archdruid (Direfury)		Crusader (Kyrbi0)

Who can make the best Hero from an existing in-game Hero & its abilities? Download & find out below. Happy voting! Can you guess which standard Hero was the base for our submissions? Post below when you Vote!

Rufus

Challenges at the Hive Workshop are meant to be executed legitimately and equitably. As such they are subject to stringent anti-cheating measures. Any of the following:

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So please, be respectful & Vote appropriately.

Challenge

This Poll ends in approximately Two (2) Weeks from it's official inception

 

[Rufus]

Great!
I will get to judging in a few days, as I'm in the process of traveling home through europe, and I rather have a calm moment to properly judge the submissions.

 

[Rufus]

I will post my opinion directly after the voting has ended.

I voted for Archdruid just to see how the voting went, I will not count that vote into the final judging.
I will see if I can attract more people to vote for your submissions.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Oh cool. I figured if we could just get a banner on the site, that'd work.

 

[Rufus]

I fixed it

 

[Aleister]

Good luck!

 

[Rufus]

More votes than downloads...
People, please check the entries before voting!

 

[Direfury]

Voting just to watch the poll. Discount it.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Whichever you Voted for, I can Vote for the other. I was just having the same problem, lol (not being able to see the Poll).

 

[Rufus]

Nice update of the op!
I changed the poll so now you can see the votes before voting.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Nice update of the op!
I changed the poll so now you can see the votes before voting.

Yeah, I'm normally against pictures & stuff for standardization & anonymization; helps increase voter accountability. But #1 I don't care so much for this one (hence the "we don't need a Judge" at first) and #2 we both had to use only in-game stuff, so it's not like either one is more impressive or whatever.

(still, I tried to find images that were roughly the same in size & composition).

~~~

*checks Poll*
Lol, so many tears.

 

[Rence Kristoff]

Good luck to both competitors
and voted for.....
so the spells here are made with the in game spells?

So I tried it out and liked Kyrbi0's, but I still liked Direfury's.

 

[Rufus]

@Kyrbi0 @Direfury
Here I have hidden my judging for the challenge. Do you want me to display it now, or when the voting ends?
BTW, both you guys make sure to vote for yourselves, so I know where to subtract votes!

 

[Kyrbi0]

so the spells here are made with the in game spells?

Yep. And not just in-game spells; both of us had to specifically use the in-game abilities that were already present on our Hero-of-choice. Can you tell which standard Hero each of us used to form the base? : )

@Kyrbi0 @Direfury
Here I have hidden my judging for the challenge. Do you want me to display it now, or when the voting ends?
BTW, both you guys make sure to vote for yourselves, so I know where to subtract votes!

I would save the Judging for after the Poll is over, just in case. Predisposition & all that.

(lol. today I discovered what a 'note' was & how to reveal it...)

 

[Rence Kristoff]

Can you tell which standard Hero each of us used to form the base? : )

Garithos and Furion

About the spells, I can tell that one of you used Charm and one used Cluster Rockets
All the other skills fascinated me.

 

[Rufus]

Did you manage to revela my note?

 

[Kyrbi0]

Garithos and Furion

About the spells, I can tell that one of you used Charm and one used Cluster Rockets
All the other skills fascinated me.

No, silly. Garithos & Furion were just the models we picked. We changed all the aesthetics, but the core Object Editor data is the same underneath (you should be able to right-click->"Reset all custom data" & find out).

However, you may not need to do even that; you recognized 'Charm' on one entry & 'Cluster Rockets' on the other. That means you are already almost there. Remember, we couldn't change any of base spells on our base hero. ; )

Did you manage to revela my note?

Why do you hate me Maybe... >_>
: P

 

[Rence Kristoff]

Thought you said who were the hero models XD I will find out those spells

Why do you hate me

lol

 

[Rufus]

Alright, quoting makes it visible...
I'll hide it elsewhere, away from your curious tendrils!

 

[Rence Kristoff]

Clever!
Using the Goblin Tinker's spells and the Dark Ranger's. Didn't see that coming
Something else are the Dummys I found

 

[Nowow]

I tested it a little, here's my two cents (one for each ):

archdruid: Really well executed visually, with a very clever use of the stegfurion model. Me likey. Also using the engineering ability to give more variety worked really well. However, I found the hero to be a bit underpowered, both statwise (hp: 750, mp: 570 and berely armor to spare, what gives?) and abilitywise with the ultimate which I assume is based on vengeance. I dunno how you made it summon units without corpses (goblin factory ability?) but the result was a not so strong hero. The biggest problem I had was with the silver stag ability - it had real potential with the possible switch between mana regeneration and raw power, but for a magic using hero I felt the trade-off was not worth the ability, and ended up using the stag only to run back to the healing runes in the middle.

crusader: ah... Good ol' asshole garithos. I missed you so. I really liked the whole playing style of this hero - using holy smite and seal of valor in order to heal him and allow him to stay in the fight longer. although I encountered a strange bug which causes the effect of seal of valor to be inflicted even after it's been turned off (did you base it on firelord's incinirate? why would it do that). Beside that, while the archdruid was underpowered, the crusader is very overpowered, especially with the cooldown time of holy smite (the crusader can stay in the fight almost indefinitely) and the entire aspect of the recruit ability. I don't care what they say, no one should be able to charm a unit for 50 mana every 10-12 seconds, not for good anyway (I even charmed most of the enemy workers and built another base for their race).

So, the vote goes to direfury. although it's been a very close one, with very clever ability conversions (tell me if I got anything wrong, I didn't peek at the world editor):

spoiler

Archdruid: Cluster rockets, bear form, engineering, vengeance.

Crusader: life drain (I see what you did there. winkwink), charm, incinerate, silence

 

[Rence Kristoff]

The Archdruid used the Tinker's abilities and the Crusader, The Dark Ranger's

 

[Direfury]

Its almost funny how even the polls have been.

 

[Kyrbi0]

crusader: ah... Good ol' asshole garithos. I missed you so. I really liked the whole playing style of this hero - using holy smite and seal of valor in order to heal him and allow him to stay in the fight longer. although I encountered a strange bug which causes the effect of seal of valor to be inflicted even after it's been turned off (did you base it on firelord's incinirate? why would it do that). Beside that, while the archdruid was underpowered, the crusader is very overpowered, especially with the cooldown time of holy smite (the crusader can stay in the fight almost indefinitely) and the entire aspect of the recruit ability. I don't care what they say, no one should be able to charm a unit for 50 mana every 10-12 seconds, not for good anyway (I even charmed most of the enemy workers and built another base for their race).

I'm really glad you enjoyed my Hero!

Yeah, I encountered the exact same bug, and it really (for lack of a better word) bugged me. AFAIK the Dark Ranger's actual "Black Arrow" ability doesn't do that. So just custom versions of it? Another "Incinerate-esque" issue, mayhaps? Gosh I hope not. :<

Yeah, I suppose with some serious balancing this guy could work out better; as it is his ability to self-sustain in combat is pretty insane, I suppose. Recruit was annoying; I swear I tried to get it to just target Creeps but couldn't get the Targets Allowed to do it. I worried about making an Ultimate into a normal ability but it was a big part of the "diversification" for me.

Its almost funny how even the polls have been.

Just goes to show you aren't half bad. ;D

 

[Edge45]

Gonna break the even vote now : P

Vote goes to... (dammit I can't decide yet)
Gonna say my review, no hard feelings.
- Direfury's entry have a much more interesting function of a hero, I like it as it has a very well use of abilities that fits to it, an offensive magic-user. But is weak and imbalanced in early levels and even when max. I found the abilities fitting, its damages are decent, except for the spirit though. The hero itself has a poor stats, not entirely living long when targeted nor can cast many spells for support or attack due to heavy mana consumption, albeit with the stag-fur ability it can't sustain. Although its damage is quite interesting, it can rival another offensive magic user such as the Lich in terms of combat and ability.
- Kyrbi0's entry, in contrast to Direfury's, goes more into offensive fighting, and is damn strong, I mean kill + heal + unit control + negative buffs (>.>) = enemy is screwed.
Included with stats that is for warriors, it can live long enough to fight and kill half an army, especially when max, (if it had an all mana regen items... i guess the army would already be in his control).
You can actually make a combo of third+first abilities, and if you're going for an evil plan and invade bases, fourth+second, and I think you can control an enemy's basic unit army. The hero's good, but its function has become an hybrid that may have been op, serving both melee offensive, tank and magic offensive.

If not for the Archdruid's low stat, I would vote for Direfury because its function serves more. But Kyrbi0's Crusader has abilities that can be used as combos, which I actually like, included its hybrid stats(not gonna includes it power though). My vote goes to Kyrbi0.


Well done to the two of you, ^^ both entries executes well.

 

[Krakenn99]

Okay here's my shot at it. I'll keep it short.

As some of the guys already said. The Archdruid is kinda meh in terms of power while the Crusaders pwns. He can solo red camps!

Archdruid - Pretty cool but kinda lacks offensive spells. He has a spell for damage, stag for sustain/buff, passive to empower the first two and a cool summon ultimate. Before level 6 he can't really do a whole lot of dmg imo.

Crusader - I fixed the bug with his 3rd spell; all you gotta do is make his attacks missiles and set the projectile speed to 9999. Arrow type of abilities work only on ranged units so u have to make his attacks missile type. Now to his gameplay: his sustain is unreal! Two spells for heal and a spell to take control over a unit + his AoE debuff on the enemies. Holy smokes.

Both heroes are quite awesome in terms of creativenes and I love the fact that only object editor is used, proof that u can make an unique and awesome heroes witouth any triggers. My vote goes to the Crusaders even doe I really hate that bug, it's fixed very ver very easily and the hero is more fun to play with. Gg wp.

P.S. Sorry for the crappy grammar I'm in a hurry so no time to watch out for typos.

 

[Direfury]

So you're voting for something you had to edit yourself to play?

 

[Kyrbi0]

Thanks for your thoughts, you two.

@Krakenn99, I appreciate the suggestion, and while I'm glad it works, the problem is that he would no longer be a 'melee' attacker (I mean, he would still attack at melee range but for game mechanic purposes he would be 'ranged'). This would cause some player-confusing issues with Vampiric/Trueshot Aura, as well as Spiked Barricades, Spiked Carapace, etc... Really anything that messed with Melee/Ranged stuff.

But yeah, your comment about "even without triggers -> cool heroes" is exactly what I was going for when I invented this Challenge/Contest. With perhaps a few alterations, I'd love to see other people doing this. : )

So you're voting for something you had to edit yourself to play?

...My vote goes to the Crusaders even doe I really hate that bug, it's fixed very ver very easily and the hero is more fun to play with. Gg wp.

*tongue-sticking out*

 

[Krakenn99]

I actually hovered my mouse over the attack icon and it still said melee. Direfury don't be mad mate, I like the overall feel of the Crusader more... that one bug is still an issue but we don't vote only for gameplay and playability (if that is a word). We vote for the overall hero idea, theme and spell set. The druid is too weak and I'm not a big fan of his spell set, for me it doesn't really match his role as a caster/support (don't really know what he's supposed to be); the Crusader is ment to be a holy warrior/tank type of guy wich is better executed imo. I'm going to check if my bug fix works with vamp. aura and such and I'll update ya in a sec.

 

[Kyrbi0]

I actually hovered my mouse over the attack icon and it still said melee. ...I'm going to check if my bug fix works with vamp. aura and such and I'll update ya in a sec.

Hm. I think that little command card tooltip reads 'melee' if the Range is sufficiently smol... But I could be wrong. Look forward to being proved wrong on this one. : )

Direfury don't be mad mate, I like the overall feel of the Crusader more... the Crusader is ment to be a holy warrior/tank type of guy wich is better executed imo.

*blushes*

 

[Krakenn99]

Тhe problem is that he would no longer be a 'melee' attacker (I mean, he would still attack at melee range but for game mechanic purposes he would be 'ranged').

Unfortunately, you were right. He doesn't get the vampire aura buff nor does he take damage when attacking Crypt Lord or Keeper of the Grove when they have their ''anti melee'' abilities. I'm asuming all other spells like the Lich's Frost Shield won't work as well... There are two options in this case; 1. Since his 3rd spell doesn't require to be in effect/auto cast for it to work, I'd suggest making it work like a passive; leave it like it is but give it 0 mana cost and an icon like it's a passive spell.; 2.Leave him be a ''ranged hero'' and idk... just leave the players wonder wtf is going on

 

[Marcos_M]

I love them both!
I like being amazed by such simple but yet ingenous abilities.
I find tinker beautiful, but i think the Crusader was more ingenous

 

[Kyrbi0]

It is done.

@Rufus, anytime you get a chance, re-link me those Judging Results so I can put them into that. : )

 

[Krakenn99]

Aye man could me and a friend of mine have the same if not a simillar challenge as you guys?

 

[Rufus]

Go ahead Krakken!
Just post a new thread in the challenge submission forum.

I think I will be able to manage it better this time, now when I've learned a few things on this challenge.


Sending the judging to you in a minute Kyrbi0!

 

[Kyrbi0]

Please do! If this gets enough interest (& I get enough time) I would love to make it a full-on Contest, as well. But in the mean-time go right on ahead!

I've been thinking about that, actually... I'm still game for the original idea, but I did some research and realized that, no matter what you pick, it's relatively easy to figure out which base Hero you chose; each Hero has at least 1 ability that is a dead giveaway. Now that doesn't necessarily matter... But if one of the Contest Criteria is "divergence" & you make it a point to say "can you figure out what was the base?"... Well then it does matter.

So one version of this I thought of would be "Pick a base hero --> Make a new hero out of ONLY it's 4 abilities, EXCEPT you can replace one of them with another in-game ability". Still no triggers, but it lets you obfuscate your design a bit more, have some flexibility to make a certain Role or Theme work for you.

A 2nd alternate would be to just open it up entirely: "Create a Hero with only in-game existing abilities, no triggers". No "base hero", just cobble together whatever 4 in-game abilities you wish (hero, unit, item, etc) to make your Hero. (of course, that sorta comes close to just "generic Hero Contest with constraints" for me, so maybe, maybe not...)

 

[Rence Kristoff]

Guys this could be a fun contest even if it's simple, all will participants will think hardly to be very resourceful with the basics

 

[Krakenn99]

I'm up for a contest like that. Imo the Hive needs simpler contests so more people can join it.

 

[Rence Kristoff]

So one version of this I thought of would be "Pick a base hero --> Make a new hero out of ONLY it's 4 abilities, EXCEPT you can replace one of them with another in-game ability". Still no triggers, but it lets you obfuscate your design a bit more, have some flexibility to make a certain Role or Theme work for you.

Can you please explain this to me.

Imo the Hive needs simpler contests so more people can join it.

ikr.

 

[Krakenn99]

Can you please explain this to me.

I think it's the same as the challenge he did with Direfury, but u can swap one ability of your choice. Still no triggers and only object editor.