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Nitro Melee mappack

This bundle is marked as useful / simple. Simplicity is bliss, low effort and/or may contain minor bugs.
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One week of hard conveyor work. Over 3000 strings was modified (Only in Object Editor, not triggers):
1. Every unit's (including NightElf's Trees) move speed and turn rate INCREASED by 25%
2. Upgrade's time and increments, building's build time and repair time, every race unit and heroes training time, Creep's and Item's Replenish interval and start delay time was HALVED.
3. Mercenery Camps upgraded with 2 tileset themed creeps.
4. Peasant's, Peon's, Acolyte's, Wisp's, Ghoul's and Shredder's harvest skills was raised to 200%.
5. Blademaster's Wind Walk Ability mana cost reduced to 60.

Allow me to present a NITRO Melee mappack that consists from 14 upgraded maps of hiveworkshop's melee makers. Big thanx for permission to speed bost and share their most greatest creations.

Play it against friend or AI (best against AMAI) to feel new breath of fast melee battles.

Credits:
(2)CrawlingShallows by mafe
(2)GodStorm by Remixer
(2)IrresistibleMind by MysteryMaze
(2)WarriorShrine by borissuworov
(2)Winterstorm by mafe
(4)LostInParadise by MysteryMaze
(4)Purity by MysteryMaze
(4)Rift by normalice (edited by borissuworov)
(6)PlainsOfHonor by Remixer
(6)RomanceTriangle by borissuworov
(8)AncientTemples by Remixer
(10)TheLostVillage by The Panda
(12)IcecrownGlacier by Ruy
(12)UniteAndDestroy by VergilThazaar
Contents

Ancient Temples (Map)

Crawling Shallows (Map)

Godstorm (Map)

Icecrown Glacier (Map)

Irresistible Mind (Map)

Lost In Paradise (Map)

Plains of Honor (Map)

Purity (Map)

Rift (Map)

Romance Triangle (Map)

The Lost Village (Map)

Unite and Destroy (Map)

Warrior Shrine (Map)

Winterstorm (Map)

Reviews
twojstaryjakcie
The fact that you invested so much time into changing unit values manually instead of using triggers hurts me physically. I looked at what you changed and I'm sorry to say it, but I'm afraid that very few people will actually be interested in...
Paillan
Have to agree with @twojstaryjakcie here. While I can see the big amount of effort poured into editing every value manually, I myself find normal meeles fast enough (I always get trounced by the AI very quickly or by other players). Speeding it even...
Daffa
Tried this in an 8 player FFA with 1 Normal and 6 Easy. The gameplay indeed is more fast-paced than usual, however, the numbering, despite shared across all races, do emit issues to be concerned of. I personally enjoyed having a more fast-paced...
Daffa
Under consensus of the reviewers, it's decided that this map will be put to Substandard. Substandard doesn't means it's not working or broken. This particular map do have it's niche but for now, it doesn't fit the current standard. If you are not...
Level 3
Joined
Mar 17, 2018
Messages
8
The position of the bases in height always give an advantage to the defender, it is not a negative point, but it leads to playing defensively and, being a small map, it should encourage more aggressive play.

The neutral camps are pretty good, at least from my point of view, maybe I miss some more accessible camps and creeps in the center, where the tavern. But in general they seem right to me.

The accesses allow the battles to develop correctly, at least I do not see any bottlenecks. Maybe in the auxiliary mines if there may be problems, since they have a narrower access.

In general, in my opinion, I think it's a good map.
 
Thanx for Review, Mvyrea... But I want to hear a gameplay review, not just about visuals and balances that already
discussed here: Warrior Shrine

This map needs to be played against friend or AI (best against AMAI) to feel a brand new speed - thats a point of this "Altered Melee" thread. Unfortenately I can't make a demonstration of Nitro Upgrade on big map with more than 2 players, because didn't create maps bigger than duel.
 
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Level 6
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
82
Maybe this Nitro (speed boosts) will be a standard part of Warcraft III (reforged) one day. (or more like an option in menu)

The map itself looks really good (like you put a lot of work into it) from pictures.

Have you thought about lowering spell cooldowns aswell? Why not? If harvest is 200% build is 50% and movement +25%? (and then increasing mana and hp regen?)

Off topic (delete if you want):
If warcraft 3 files could be converted into .txt files with certain format then there are utilities that can do conveyor work like this. (but maybe someone have already tried that)

Off topic 2: your nitro brought me an idea:

Why is Warcraft 3 upkeep not reducing build and upgrade time???
That would be far better than having sudden gold reduction.
And if all units would start at 200% build speed slowly reducing with food...
I think this idea is golden it should be in every RTS!
 
Maybe this Nitro (speed boosts) will be a standard part of Warcraft III (reforged) one day. (or more like an option in menu)
Oh, I hope so...
Have you thought about lowering spell cooldowns aswell? Why not? If harvest is 200% build is 50% and movement +25%? (and then increasing mana and hp regen?)
Offcourse, but I think that it will cause an imbalance to gameplay. If wee reduce cooldown of Tauren's ressurection skill - he will be more invincible than early. Also fast regeneration of Attacking spells will cause to usseless regular attacks, bacause of spells efectivity and imba.
By the way, there is no unit's speedup off scale in Warrior Shrine Nitro.
If warcraft 3 files could be converted into .txt files with certain format then there are utilities that can do conveyor work like this. (but maybe someone have already tried that)
It possible with Widgetaizer utility, but it will tie a map to a specific version of WC3TFT. Other way that I use to add speed bosts to every Melee map (I called it Nitro Upgrade :cool:) - its a mass export/import of custom Object data from map to map.
 
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Level 8
Joined
Feb 4, 2017
Messages
111
The fact that you invested so much time into changing unit values manually instead of using triggers hurts me physically.

I looked at what you changed and I'm sorry to say it, but I'm afraid that very few people will actually be interested in playing a faster version of regular Melee. Warcraft III is an RTS which makes it a demanding game by default. Add to that somewhat clunky pathing and numerous abilities and items that need to be used throughout the game's duration and you have one of the hardest games in its genre. People have yet to fully master Warcraft III in its current speed and yet, you want to make the gameplay even faster? I really fail to see the point in this. In my view, this endeavour is doomed from the start.

Also, I feel like increasing base speeds of units will affect many aspects of the game greatly and probably not in a good way. For example, Wind Walk will suddenly reach the speed limit faster and Scroll of Speed will be much less useful as the Speed Limit (522, from what I remember?) doesn't change.

Obviously, you are allowed to post "Nitro" versions of as many maps as you like, as long as you get the permissions from their respective owners, but I don't think it's worth it, as they'll all probably end up is Substandard, as they are all just edited copies of currently existing assets. From what I see, you original Melee map is good, but this "Nitro" idea? Not so much.

You are free to try and change my mind, but I currently consider this to be a textbook substandard map.
 
Level 19
Joined
Jan 22, 2011
Messages
3,968
Have to agree with @twojstaryjakcie here. While I can see the big amount of effort poured into editing every value manually, I myself find normal meeles fast enough (I always get trounced by the AI very quickly or by other players). Speeding it even more might cause pathfinding issues, latency, reduction in use of speed boosting and speed slowing effects, lower focus on resource management and make some races overpowered.

I will still test this, however I don't really think the changes are as many as to justify approval of the same map but with numbers tweated.
 
twojstaryjakcie, Paillan... Big thanx for reviews. Thread updated to mappack.
From what I see, you original Melee map is good, but this "Nitro" idea? Not so much. You are free to try and change my mind, but I currently consider this to be a textbook substandard map.
"Nitro" idea is simple, but definitely not bad. Just play it to understand the reason wich I created this mappack. As the game progresses, you have to completely reconsider your micromanagement of base, the development of which is more profitable now than walking of naked army. Thats because towers builds x2 faster and army wallks only x1.25 faster. You gonna reprioritize your own actions to be the first who capture most goldmines on map. So gameplay of speed boosted Regular Melee slowly transforms in Castle defense/fight genre. And DOUBLE income of resources will not let you get bored.
 
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Tried this in an 8 player FFA with 1 Normal and 6 Easy. The gameplay indeed is more fast-paced than usual, however, the numbering, despite shared across all races, do emit issues to be concerned of.

I personally enjoyed having a more fast-paced melee, but it kills some of the decisive moments where training actually matters a lot. Things happen faster but you have a better reaction time since damage is the same but the speed of your defense reproduces is increased. This, in turn, makes player prefer a defensive approach and makes aggression pretty difficult since defensive player gains much more advantage from the time reduction than the attacker does.

Some notes I took from my test (Human race w/ 2 Neutral Heroes) :
1. The fact that numbers don't include attack values gives the edge on a defensive position. It's hard to destroy production structure already in mid-war (with the fortified armor and all), and with the troops replenishing faster, the attacker will need a bigger initial force to break down the defenses (which costs MUCH more resources than play counter-attack) or kite them more (which in my test case, not viable due to possible back strike by other players).
2. With knowledge of this, I decided to play defensively (while AI aggressively visits my bases) and manage to deplete them out as they spend more than me due to them at attacking position (bonus on terrain advantage I had on the map I tested). With that, I launch my counter and they're left defenseless.
3. Trees get torn apart too fast, making lumber peasants redundant faster (or need new area)
4. The early build is slightly screwed due to the fact one has to re-adapt their timing, though personally not an issue for me, some might find it hard to get used to again.
5. Gameplay is faster, due to the fact things goes faster with the number of changes. I personally find this pretty good. This, however, can deter players who are still getting used to Melee, or those who are used to the usual slower Melee environment.

Barely approvable per standard, since it's technically Melee and doesn't fit Altered Melee bill, but it's not Melee either. I would recommend uploading your melee terrains (the one you actually own, except Rift since it's still normalice's) as melee map instead for now. On the matter of Nitro concept, would be nice to have these as a mod like Heaven Falls personally, instead of a collection of maps. Needs to know if Reforged will permit 'mod' like Heaven Falls or Ominous Horizon though in the future, else it breaks.

The map played is the one made by Remixer: Ancient Temple.

Personally, it hurts me, but if I'd say my voice on this, I had to agree with the rest of the reviewers. I hope, however, you try to talk with people like @Kam though because the concept has potential if it's embedded inside game as an option. But right now, it's not within the standards for both genre it applies to.

If this map pack is approved though, I also fear other people might get similar ideas and we get more and more of these 'nitro' and 'upgraded' concepts, which is not something I'd want to deal on Hive Map Section since that will raise a lot of 'Map QoL questions'.
 
Under consensus of the reviewers, it's decided that this map will be put to Substandard.

Substandard doesn't means it's not working or broken. This particular map do have it's niche but for now, it doesn't fit the current standard.

If you are not satisfied with this consensus, you can send a complaint in Staff Contact.
 
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