New Computer

[Deolrin]

Hey guys. I'm planning on getting a new computer sometime soon, or at least upgrade my current one. I want it to be able to run new games such as StarCraft II at at least High settings optimally. I don't want it to be too much of a "hardcore gamer computer", eg awesome(and costly) specs that are only useful if you're planning to play games that come out in 2025 with Ultra graphics. I just want it to run games like Portal, StarCraft II and Oblivion optimally without even the slightest lag. I'd also like it very much if it could start Firefox in less than 20 seconds after I click on it, or load my Antrivirus and MSN for like five minutes at computer startup. It needs to be as cheap as possible(below 500$, please, if that's even possible), and needs to be available for purchase\delivery in Israel(where I live, obviously).

My current specs are:

• Operating system:Windows 2.5.1.2600 (SP 2)
• CPU type:Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2140 @ 1.60GHz
• CPU Speed (GHz):1.615
• System memory (GB):0.998
• Graphics card model:NVIDIA GeForce 7300 SE/7200 GS
• Graphics card driver:nv4_disp.dll
• Desktop resolution:1280x1024
• Hard disk size (GB):149.04
• Hard disk free space (GB):50.192

(According to the Battle.net opt-in thing, at least)

I'd like a link to anything I can do to improve this piece of shit. E.g., I want to run SC2 and Portal at High without lags or anything. I know that I'll be needing a new processor, more RAM and a good graphic card, at least. Since I don't understand a shit about computers, I'd like you good people to link to some computer parts that would be fine and not too costly(I don't want to try and beg my dad for a 2500$ graphic card. That wont really work. >.>).

Oh yeah, and... At the moment my computer can handle Portal at its lowest settings without any lag(it DOES lags a bit when I have both portals visible however), and SC2 with slight lags(again, on lowest). Changing ANYTHING to be a little higher causes it to be slightly laggy.

 

[Etzer]

My bro have a nice gamer, not hardcore, from MSi. 5000 DKK (1000$, 6500-7500 NOK)

 

[Deolrin]

I'm sorry, but that wasn't really helpful.
First of all, I clearly specified I'd prefer anything below or around 500$.
I've got around 85$ bucks myself, and I'll obviously have to ask my dad for some extra cash, and I really can't\don't want to ask for TOO much money.
Secondly, you didn't provide links, or any details whatsoever.

 

[Etzer]

Oh dude sorry, didn't see it >.<

 

[TheDivineBoss]

I got some PC magazines lying around here somewhere. The authors regularly place new hardware, software and builds in it. I can't promise you a pricetag under 500 credits (are we talking euro's or dollars Debby?).

I will get to it tomorrow 'kay? Can't do it right now.

 

[Deolrin]

Sure. ^^
Talking about dollars, though. It's because 500 dollars are 2000 NIS(New Israeli Shequel), so... That's quite a lot around here, for just a few computer components.

 

[Piwlady]

I think you could buy your components in few shipments. Like first you buy good motherboard, cpu and half of RAMs ( like 2gb-4gb). Then you save money for a while and get gpu and other half of RAMs (another 2gb-4gb).

Because even when you that buy motherboard, cpu and about 2gb ram, it would be definetly a upgrade. And because motherboards can have nowadays very nice GPU integrated even your gpu could get upgrade too.

I bought my computer like this, I used altogether about 700€-800€ but when I bought some components I never used over 200€ at once. But yeah, it took about one and half year to buy all of these components, and still I need to upgrade my RAMs ( from 2gb to 8gb )

 

[Deolrin]

I might do so, but first, I must know what exactly could I buy... TDB, any progress?

 

[TheDivineBoss]

* Operating system:Windows 2.5.1.2600 (SP 2)
* CPU type:Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2140 @ 1.60GHz
* CPU Speed (GHz):1.615
* System memory (GB):0.998
* Graphics card model:NVIDIA GeForce 7300 SE/7200 GS
* Graphics card driver:nv4_disp.dll
* Desktop resolution:1280x1024
* Hard disk size (GB):149.04
* Hard disk free space (GB):50.192

I labelled your hardware with red as bad which needs replacement and green which doesn't.

I got a list here of a quite good build and little bit dumbed down in price. This build is a silent game-pc build. Listed below:

• €79 CPU: AMD Phenom II X2 550
• €62 Motherboard: MSI 785GM-E51
• €90 Memory: 2x 2GB (DDR3-1333/PC3-10600)
• €69 HDD: Samsung HD103SJ 1000GB
• €20 DVD-player: LiteOn iHAS124
• €45 Case: Enermax Staray
• €20 CPU cooler: Scythe Samurai
• €16 Anti-vib.frame: Sharkoon HDD Vibe-Fixer 5,25"
• €06 Casefan: Artic-Cooling AF12025 L 120mm
• €85 OS: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit

Total costs: €492,-


Now there are three things that should be noted:

1. I didn't include the power supply and graphics card. That is continued below.
2. These prices are from the magazine and this magazine is from April 2010, so the prices might variate. It is also notable I operate in euros, so the prices might increase in your case.
3. I excluded the HDD and DVD player.

Three graphic card variants are listed below. I presume they are in order of weakest to most powerful.

First variant:

• €136 Graphic card: HIS HD 5750 ICEQ
• €055 Power supply: Enermax PRO82+ 385W

Total costs: €683,-

Second variant:

• €150 Graphic card: Sapphire Vapor-X HD 5770
• €055 Power supply: Enermax PRO82+ 385W

Total costs: €697,-

Third variant:

• €232 Graphic card: Radeon HD 5850
• €050 Power supply: Be quiet! BQT L7-530W

Total costs: €774,-

 

[Deolrin]

Wow, thanks a lot. I probably wont buy them all at once, more like one by one. Will that HIS HD 5750 ICEQ handle SC2 at High settings?

 

[Piwlady]

Will that HIS HD 5750 ICEQ handle SC2 at High settings?

That GPU easily handles Ultra settings. I checked it's specs and I'd say it can easily handle Ultra settings of SC2

 

[Deolrin]

I labelled your hardware with red as bad which needs replacement and green which doesn't.

I got a list here of a quite good build and little bit dumbed down in price. This build is a silent game-pc build. Listed below:

• €79 CPU: AMD Phenom II X2 550
• €62 Motherboard: MSI 785GM-E51
• €90 Memory: 2x 2GB (DDR3-1333/PC3-10600)
• €69 HDD: Samsung HD103SJ 1000GB
• €20 DVD-player: LiteOn iHAS124
• €45 Case: Enermax Staray
• €20 CPU cooler: Scythe Samurai
• €16 Anti-vib.frame: Sharkoon HDD Vibe-Fixer 5,25"
• €06 Casefan: Artic-Cooling AF12025 L 120mm
• €85 OS: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit

Total costs: €492,-


Now there are three things that should be noted:

1. I didn't include the power supply and graphics card. That is continued below.
2. These prices are from the magazine and this magazine is from April 2010, so the prices might variate. It is also notable I operate in euros, so the prices might increase in your case.
3. I excluded the HDD and DVD player.

Three graphic card variants are listed below. I presume they are in order of weakest to most powerful.

First variant:

• €136 Graphic card: HIS HD 5750 ICEQ
• €055 Power supply: Enermax PRO82+ 385W

Total costs: €683,-

Second variant:

• €150 Graphic card: Sapphire Vapor-X HD 5770
• €055 Power supply: Enermax PRO82+ 385W

Total costs: €697,-

Third variant:

• €232 Graphic card: Radeon HD 5850
• €050 Power supply: Be quiet! BQT L7-530W

Total costs: €774,-

Okay, well, thanks again...
I didn't find the correct ones, not in the Israeli shop I'm going to buy from(can't buy from anywhere else, sadly). I found those(It's in Hebrew, so I used Google Translate):
Video card.
Processor.(It seems like it's a 64bit Processor? I wonder if I can somehow use it without getting Windows 7? :/)
Memory.

I'm not planning to get a new case, or a new OS. For now, I just need it to run SC2 on Ultra with very few lags or non at all.
I am wondering if those could work? I'll get a motherboard in the store since I couldn't find any 2AM/940 SOCKET motherboard, only SOCKET940.

EDIT: Found a better, cheaper processor. It fits my motherboard apparently, but I'll still need a new motherboard if I want to get more RAM, so...
http://translate.google.com/transla...prdTreeCode_0/prdTreeCode_01/prdTreeCode_012/

EDIT 2:
Motherboard.

EDIT 3:
Power supply.
Memory.

EDIT 4: All of this is thanks to Shados and General Frank who helped me out.

 

[TheDivineBoss]

I don't expect from you that you must have every component of this build - but think that this build is a goal. You can downgrade the hardware if you want. If you want to run SC2 on ultra settings smoothly, then I suggest looking at the computer requirements. Though no true specs are findable, this sys.spec. can be useful.

And no problem at all, glad to help.

 

[Deolrin]

I don't expect from you that you must have every component of this build - but think that this build is a goal. You can downgrade the hardware if you want. If you want to run SC2 on ultra settings smoothly, then I suggest looking at the computer requirements. Though no true specs are findable, this sys.spec. can be useful.

And no problem at all, glad to help.

Okay, well, the ones I have linked above; they should work, no?

 

[BlargHonk]

Debode, those parts your trying to get are incompatible, that board cannot run an AMD processor, it's an Intel Socket 775, vs the AM2(940)

Anyways, the processor itself is a piece of shit, no one takes the Phenom 1 X4's seriously, their best one could only equal a Q6600, hell, your current dual core might be able to take it.

AMD Athlon 2 X4 620

Now for Mainboard, we can go with Gigabyte MA770-UD3 or Asus M4A78

The main difference between those is that the Asus needs DDR2 RAM but can Crossfire, while the Gigabyte needs DDR3, but no Crossfire

I found a DDR2 kit that was good (Yours was only a single stick, need two) or two DDR3 kits here and the faster kit here

All GPU's I recommend

http://translate.google.com/transla...prdTreeCode_05/prdTreeCode_051/&sl=auto&tl=en

The 5750, GTS250, and HD4850 are equal just as a BTW, but the 5750 has more features, and the 8800GT, while being old, still outperforms the GT240 you were recommended by a large margin, while costing less, and the HD5750/GTS250/HD4850 are even better.

http://translate.google.com/transla...prdTreeCode_05/prdTreeCode_051/&sl=auto&tl=en

http://translate.google.com/transla...prdTreeCode_05/prdTreeCode_051/&sl=auto&tl=en

http://translate.google.com/transla...prdTreeCode_05/prdTreeCode_051/&sl=auto&tl=en


For PowerSupply, check on this list: http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/thread/323050.aspx

 

[Deolrin]

I updated the list. Seems you misunderstood some stuff:

Power supply.
Memory.
Motherboard.
Processor

 

[BlargHonk]

Ummmm, that processor isn't much more powerful than the one you have.

And misunderstood? No, no, go look at the processor you linked it was a Phenom 1 9500, and you paired it with a LGA775 board, completely incompatible.

That power supply is a piece of shit

The memory is a SINGLE STICK, look at the label on the front, you need 2 sticks.


So, it's more like you misunderstood me, the build I recommended is completely compatible, all you need to find is a decent PSU, check this list for good manufacturers and models: http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/thread/323050.aspx

Make sure it's at least 450 watts and has a 6 pin power connector, and not that Vantec, and please, don't take most PSU reviews seriously, most reviewers don't even know how to operate an oscilloscope.

 

[Deolrin]

Dude, I don't have that much money to waste. And I don't want a supa-epic-badass computer, I just want something to play StarCraft II with Ultra or at the very least High settings, and that's all.
I'm not checking any review. I'm showing what I want to buy in the chatroom to Shados, Kharma and General Frank and waiting for them to tell me if it works or not, that's it. I can only buy stuff from the site I linked. I can't buy from anywhere else.

Besides... The Processor and Motherboard are supposed to fit. They're both SOCKET775.

 

[BlargHonk]

No no no, the previous build you linked here: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/1587080-post12.html

That is an AM2+ Processor, that is what I was talking about, and the setup your planning on getting now with the 240GT will do Medium with a few settings on High for Sc2

The setup I linked, using the 8800GT, is well within your budget and will run Sc2 on High with a few options on Ultra.

You could of course put the 8800GT on that build, with the dual core Intel, and it will do High, but then you still would only have a single stick of ram, your not understanding that bit.



BTW, General, Shados, and Kharma are all software guys, only DSG and I can actually link you decent hardware, Gilles isn't here anymore unfortunately.

 

[Deolrin]

But you're linking to extremely expensive shit, and that doesn't really help... Not to mention the fact that according to Shados processors don't matter at all that much in games. Bleh.

 

[BlargHonk]

Ahahhahaahahahhahahaahahh

Processors don't matter in games? What the hell you think does all the physics calculations (In a non-PhysX game)

Now I mean sure, a good Video Card will make more of a difference than a good processor in a game, but don't think sticking a HD5870 with a Pentium 4 will allow you to run any game.


Now, if you want to stick with that processor, fine, go for it, but use the DDR2 ram kit I linked, and the 8800GT, you will find that due to the 8800GT's lower pricing it should come out to around the same price as your build, while having greater performance.

Useful links, Video Card Hierarchy Chart, CPU Hierarchy Chart

Edit: Chatlogs of what I said

[10-21-35] BlargHonk: debode, So the build you want is 1700, the build I tried you to get was 1945, and the build I am trying you to compromise on is 1550 with greater performance than the 1700 build
[10-21-52] BlargHonk: debode, It makes god damn sense
[10-22-09] BlargHonk: debode, The 8800GT might be 3 years old, but damn is it still powerful
[10-22-39] BlargHonk: debode, And hell, if you wanted, you could get the HD4850 or GTS250 that I linked and have an even better GPU
[10-22-55] BlargHonk: debode, For 400 more
[10-23-03] BlargHonk: debode, Actually more like 350 more

 

[Samuraid]

BlargHonk makes a good point.

A lot more games are CPU-bound than one would think.
Here's an interesting set of benchmarks to illustrate this:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/athlon-ii-x3-440-gaming-performance,2619.html

 

[Deathcom3s]

BTW, General, Shados, and Kharma are all software guys, only DSG and I can actually link you decent hardware, Gilles isn't here anymore unfortunately.

You forgot me. D:

And Samuraid, it's funny that you just posted a link to that article, i just barely read it like 5 minutes ago.

Here's what i suggest for now, for ~$500;

CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103726
Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131398
RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231134
Video Card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130514
PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139004

 

[BlargHonk]

He lives in Israel, he can't get Newegg parts, price is inflated, and selection is very small in shops.


BTW, your choice of GPU sucks, wtf you do? Click Featured Items?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150482 Oh hai, a 4850, with the same performance, for $50 less

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150448 Oh yay, a 5750 with the same performance for $25 less and with DX11

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162034 Oh looky, a GTS250 for $74 with MiR



This is why I didn't include you on that list of people good with Comps, you don't search for the best deals.

 

[Deathcom3s]

Well, basically, yeah. I searched for maybe a grand total of 5 minutes for those parts. Good thing you found him better deals, thank you.

Yes, i suck with comps, which is exactly why i have an interview for a paid internship position at Xerox on June 10th. Thank you for that insight. But now we're headed off-topic.

 

[Deolrin]

Guys, thank you... But I can't buy anything outside omc.co.il, so if what you guys want me to buy isn't there then I can't buy it.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Just to warn you, SC2 is extreemly processor dependant. 9/10 cause of lag you will encounter are due to your processor not being fast enough.

I have already encountered 3 custom maps which have poor framerate due to CPU bottlekneck on a core I7 (pretty top end processor range). However do remember that SC2 uses only 2 cores effectivly so although it does gain a boost from 3 or more, it is largly dependant on dual core opperation.

Graphially, ultra is not very demanding. A 275 GTX can max the game at 1680*1050 with over 100 colosuses on screen without any fps reduction. This is completly out your price range I think however. A moderatly weaker card will probably only suffer minor FPS reductions but as mentioned eariler, most low framerate will be CPU and not the GPU.

Anyway, I advise a dual or better core processor with atleast 2.4 GHz clock. If it is just dual, 3GHz would be safer. Anything less and custom maps might give you problems in SC2.

If you upgrade your motherboard and processor, you will probably end up with some sort of dual channel DDR2 or 3 which will probably be 2 or 4 GB in total depending on what you choose. SC2 on Ultra does not often consume more than 1 GB so 4 GB would be pleanty for all your tools in the background. As for fast loading, look into a new hard disk, you can get 1 TB disks quite cheaply now and I think their transfer rates are better than your current one.

 

[BlargHonk]

Basically, a GTS250/HD4850 is all you need, after that it's processor


BTW, I love how you misspell the underlined word XD

 

[Deolrin]

I'm getting a dual core processor with 2.5GHz, hopefully it will be fine.
I'm not even PLANNING on having more than 100 collosi on my screen at once, that's insane! Each one of those is like 5000 polygon fat! :S

And yeah, I have no problem with playing SC2 with only MSN\firefox\both\none of them in the background. If that's what yuo mean, that is.

Oh, and... Please tell me this card is sufficient: http://translate.google.com/transla..._05/prdTreeCode_051/&sl=iw&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

 

[BlargHonk]

Why, are, you, getting, a 240GT

I god damn linked you an 8800GT that has more performance, and costs half as much, a 240GT is only as good as a 9600GT (8800GT and 9800GT are exact same card)

http://translate.google.com/transla...prdTreeCode_05/prdTreeCode_051/&sl=auto&tl=en

Am I talking to a wall here?


Hell, for almost the same price there is an HD4850, which is equal to a 9800GTX+, almost 2x the performance of a 240GT
http://translate.google.com/transla...prdTreeCode_05/prdTreeCode_051/&sl=auto&tl=en



And are you still getting that single channel RAM? Do you even remember what I said?

 

[Dr Super Good]

I higly advise you set up your processor with dual channel or better (if supported) RAM. It greatly enhances the memory read/write bandwith which can provide a boost to performance.

The 240 GT has better multi media support, supporting audio over DVI for use with an HDMI addaptor. It also supports DX 10.1 where as all the other nvidia cards you listed support only DX10 (although virtually nothing uses 10.1). It also has better hardware for more efficent decoding of blu-ray 1080p content (as if you will be using that). Overall if your using it for gaming I advise listening to BlargHonk as what you are mostly paying for with the 240 GT is multimedia technology for home cinima use and not power for gamming. If you want to use HDMI audio, watch blu-rays and stuff like that, then the card is pretty good but for gamming even a geforce 8800 GT will beat it through share grunt processing power.

 

[Deolrin]

Oh, well... I could probably get that Gigabyte card(This one: http://translate.google.com/transla...prdTreeCode_05/prdTreeCode_051/&sl=auto&tl=en) if you both say it's better...

Can you please elaborate what you mean by "dual channel or better (if supported) RAM"? I don't quite get it...

 

[Dr Super Good]

Wikipedia is your friend

Some processors from the core I5 and core I7 support tripple channel RAM, however these processors might be out your price range however nearly ore modern processes support dual channel.

 

[Deathcom3s]

If it's worth anything, here's a Core i5 build for your consideration. However, it does place you above your current $500 budget.

CPU: http://translate.googleusercontent....le.com&usg=ALkJrhjFt4Z2LGu-lOMaXsqbajs-qFCUxg
Motherboard: http://translate.googleusercontent....le.com&usg=ALkJrhgOWDyMSE3Fq5St9SPKiSHSjHTEAw
Memory: http://translate.googleusercontent....le.com&usg=ALkJrhgEU2gpdXpUmm7UXikS4CEQ7LCYLQ
Video Card (same one you've been recommended by BlargHonk):http://translate.google.com/transla...prdTreeCode_05/prdTreeCode_051/&sl=auto&tl=en
Power Supply: http://translate.googleusercontent....le.com&usg=ALkJrhhFi_lFessQ-zYFDD1oaBk4uNMI0A

After the addition of the power supply, it brings you about $265 over your budget, but also gives you plenty of room for upgrading components such as your Video Card. If that's not what you want, then i recommend you post your alternative here so we can take a look at it. Without that rather pricey Corsair 750W, the price of the components is only around $85 over your budget. However, the Core i5 is quite the processor for gaming. Rarely will you need a high-end Core i7 for gaming. Boasting a base clock rate comparable to the Core i7-920, plus the ability Turbo Boost has to take it to 3.2GHz in single-threaded workloads, plus Crossfire and SLI support(although negligible due to the mobo i linked), the Core i5-750 really does make it hard to recommend a Core i7-920 or 930 to someone who's really looking for a gaming rig first and foremost. For your purposes, the Dual Channel capabilities of the Core i5 compared to the Tri Channel support offered by the Core i7-930 is best ignored.

 

[BlargHonk]

Thats a 50% increase over what he wants Deathcom3s, I usually try to limit linking to builds priced that high compared to what he wants.

Although, I actually did link a build very similar to that, but using a Athlon 2 X4, surprised he didn't get it really.

 

[Deolrin]

Hmm.

Well, you see, I'd put it out in that way: I have no idea about what the fuck you're talking about.

I really only want to know... At THIS moment... With BlargHonk's card that I linked in the previous post, and all the other components that I linked previously, will I be able to run SC2 on High\Ultra? I don't care if there are better alternatives for "just a little more", really. Not at the moment anyways. I'm just upgrading my computer to run "new" games, but I am not currently looking into running games that will come out in, say, 5 years or so because I really don't care about that at the moment.

At the moment by actual budged would be something like 400$ at max, actually.

 

[BlargHonk]

High with a few features on Ultra

Forget the SSAO though.

 

[Deolrin]

SSAO?

I'm sorry, but, what do you mean?
I don't really remember names of computer parts that well at all. :/

 

[Dr Super Good]

SSAO is when shaders are set to extreme (past the normal ultra settings permit).

It seems broken on nvidia cards though as my geforce 275 GTX with lattest drivers can turn the option on but I do not notice any visual difference. That or the editor allows you to alter SSAO lighting settings but lacks the code to display SSAO (meaning it only works ingame).

 

[Samuraid]

SSAO?

This is a good read if you are curious about the details:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_Space_Ambient_Occlusion