Upgrade... what?

[Ziggen]

Okay, so now when christmas is nearing and my birthday coming soon, I've decided to put the money on a computer upgrade, or mainly a graphics card I think. This is what I got now:

Processor: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4400+
Processor speed: 2.30 GHz
RAM: 3.5 GB
OS: Microsoft Windows XP Professional
Graphics Card: GeForce 8600 GT

I would like a new computer but that would take me many months to get money to, so what is the most important thing I should get new? I know my processor isn't great and my graphics card is really not great either.

Please give suggestions on graphics cards, good but cheap, I want to be able to play games like... Fallout 3/Bioshock on highest, or at least pretty high settings. I'm currently playing through NFS Most Wanted and I can't even play that on highest.

EDIT: I'm just wondering this too... I have an old GeForce 8400 GS, can I put that in the computer with my 8600 GT? Do they work well together or is it fucked up? lol

 

[LordDz]

Use this site:
http://cyri.systemrequirementslab.com/srtest/
Take a powerful game, Unreal Tournament 3 perhaps?
Run, check what you need.

 

[The Reborn Devil]

Get i9 FTW!

Hmm, I think you should upgrade your CPU, your GPU isn't that bad.

 

[DarkLordX]

Well, your RAM is ok, of course...
Your CPU and GPU are both not good, I'm not sure what to upgrade. Maybe you could buy a cheap Phenom II X3 or X4 CPU and later on a graphiccard like HD4850-4890 or GTX 270.

 

[Dr Super Good]

3.5 GB RAM..... OUCH....
The clock rates / transfer rates I can only guess are poor as you must be using odd chips of RAM.
8600 will do, but is like 50% the power of an 8800 which is like 1/4 the power of the 200 series which is like 1/2 the power of the DX11 cards, so I guess it will do but might not run modern games near max.

Dual core with such low clock rate will not do as well, I advise quad cores.

As far as upgrading goes, I would say most urgant is in order. . .
CPU
OS (Get Windows 7 64 bit, as you can not even use DX10 let alone 11 now).
GPU
RAM

Those games mentioned should be near maxed on your current card.

 

[DarkLordX]

@Dr.Super Good:

Nearly the same like I said

But the 8600 won't even run modern games on middle. Crysis definately not, and new games like Assassins Creed 2 won't work really good, too.

I would say the GPU comes before the OS, then get Windows 7 Enterprise 64bit, I have Enterprise 32-bit since 2 months and it works perfect

 

[Dr Super Good]

I am used to playing on a 7800 GTS so I doubt the 8600 is any worse.

Although I use a 275 now hehe.

 

[DarkLordX]

Well, soon I used to play on a HD5870/GTX 295, then the new games should finally work...

 

[Ziggen]

Ok, so first I get like, a quad-core processor with about 3 Ghz, and then a better graphics card? Thanks everyone.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Make sure your motherboard can support them.

 

[BlargHonk]

Try to get an Phenom 2 X4 940, that is still AM2+ and supports DDR2

and a 5750 or 5770 are very good, the 5770 being about the same power as a 4870 but with alot less watts consumed.

I mean ALOT, and it has DX11 as a bonus.

 

[Deleted member 157129]

Another thing that might be important when upgrading your GPU (when you get there) is to make sure your PSU can deliver enough wattage. Though, like people have stated here - you need a CPU more urgently than anything else, and I am guessing you've got a 512MB memory chip in there together with 3 1GB chips, plug the 512MB out .. it weakens the other three (most likely).

Could you post your motherboard model (and sockets), and your PSU? Although these do not make sure you can play awesome games, it is the ground structure that makes everything else work - with a 10 year old mobo, it doesn't matter how new your CPU, GPU and RAM is, because they won't fit.

 

[BlargHonk]

It is an AM2, it is a Brisbane 4400+ at 2.3 ghz, the Windsor and Toledo 4400+'s were 2.2 ghz. This of course assumes it isn't overclocked. But, the way to find out for sure is this little thingy: CPU-Z

Also, AM3 processors will work on AM2 or AM2+ so if a Phenom 2 X4 940 is too expensive, Athlon 2 X4's are great.

 

[The Reborn Devil]

A new GPU isn't that urgent. Get a good CPU like AMD Phenom II X4 @ 3.41 GHz and a good motherboard that supports it.

I upgraded my computer a few weeks ago and this is what I got now (didn't upgrade GPU or the OS):
Motherboard: ASUS M4A79T Deluxe
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 @ 3.41 GHz
RAM: 3 GB RAM @ 1333 MHz
GPU: GeForce 7600 GT
OS: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 3

And I can play all the newest games at the highest quality.

 

[Dr Super Good]

And I can play all the newest games at the highest quality.

That is physically impossible, considering only the newest generation cards can do that to crysis. Let alone the fact you got no DX10 support. The 7600GT will no way be able to max games like SC2, as it is not even using DX10 (needed for all graphic options).

You must mean that your PC is able to play all modern games at decent quality, highest my PC will not make for some and it has a I7 + Geforce 275.

 

[Deleted member 157129]

True, with a non-DX10 card (and no Vista or Win7) you do not have the upper levels of graphics that a DX10 GPU and OS would unlock. I, on the other hand, do have a computer capable of playing all games that are already out at highest quality (as far as I know) - with a GTX280, clocked, an Intel Quad Core @2.9GHz and 4GB RAM.

 

[BlargHonk]

Nah, Crysis will lag with that on 1900x1200 with AA and AF to max

And it can lag on Wc3 ^^ But that is due to the engine

 

[Deleted member 157129]

It doesn't lag for me? ..

 

[BlargHonk]

Fill the screen with Death Knights

The engine glitches and produces the black hole

 

[Deleted member 157129]

Really? I'll have to try that out tomorrow. Anyhow, Crysis doesn't lag either.

 

[BlargHonk]

Zooming out will help it, if you go on a map with many units in WE, and zoom out (to make the black go away, Ctrl or Alt + Scroll, I forgot which) and it will do it on some maps

 

[Dr Super Good]

shiiK, the geforce 300 series and ATI's top range DX11 cards get 3 times or more the frame rate in crysis as your card.
They can get playable FPS at insane 2000+*2000+ resolution with all filter options maximized and AA and AF at bes quality and strength.

Trust me, the 200 series is good, but it will not cope with extreems like crysis at max at an insane resolution (resolutions greater than HD and vurging on UHD) with all driver settings on best quality.

WC3 is not a valid game to benchmark, as the graphics are DX8. Large parts of modern graphic cards are not even loaded (0% usage) when running WC3 as DX8 did not even have them to use when it was made. Further more WC3 is single threaded only, resulting in most reductions in FPS being caused by CPU handycap rather than GPU. This is due to WC3 using a single main thread for both graphics and game engine, resulting in it frame skipping to allow for continious execution of the game engine.

The geforce 200 series however is bloody powerful, I like them alot.

The reborn devil on the other hand said a "GPU: GeForce 7600 GT" could play all the modern games at highest. Since a geforce 200 can struggle at times, how the hell can that?

 

[Deleted member 157129]

Aye, but I don't need more than 60FPS in Crysis. About one and a half year ago, when I bought this rig, the GTX280 was the very newest technology, and it covered 40% of the cost. This rig does run all the latest games, with acceptable FPS on a FullHD resolution. Though I am considering upgrading it already, with a more powerful GPU.

 

[BlargHonk]

Actually DX8.1

And there are times when a HD5870 will lag (GTX300's aren't out, stop talking about them, we will see when they do come out)

It is rare, but it will lag.

 

[The Reborn Devil]

Well, it doesn't lag AT ALL when I play games like UT3 with everything at max.
And I'm pretty sure I can play Crysis with everything at max as well as the computer I had before could almost do that (I had it at medium).

Maybe my computer is magical or something.

 

[BlargHonk]

UT3 is easy, a 4850 can max that out.

 

[The Reborn Devil]

According to System Requirements Lab Crysis is just a wee bit more demanding than UT3.
UT3 requires at least a GeForce 6200 GPU while Crysis requires a GeForce 6800 GT GPU.

 

[BlargHonk]

...

...

...

DO YOU EVEN KNOW THE DIFFERENCE IN PERFORMANCE?

You truly are an idiot

going from a 6200 to a 6800 is like going from a Radeon 9100 to a X800 XL

It is something around 4 times faster

 

[The Reborn Devil]

1. "You truly are an idiot" Never insult anyone or you might be reported (others have gotten banned for this).
2. I know that my computer can play those games at the highest graphics, so lets stop arguing about this as it helps neither of us.

END OF DISCUSSION.

Please don't continue this discussion or I'll be forced to report you to one of the other mods as I do not have the authority to give you negrep or infraction in this forum even though I can.

 

[Dr Super Good]

The_Reborn_Devil, try playing TES oblivion at max? My 7800 could not max that well and you have a....

GPU: GeForce 7600 GT

That should have real problems with FPS when running with grass at max and HDR on (if it could turn HDR on as I do not think it has the shader 3.0 needed).

Are you sure you do not mean you have a "9600"? That can run crysis and stuff well and max TES oblivion easilly but that is a DX10 card based on the 8800. The 7600 is not even a full DX9 card I believe and is like 1/8-1/16th of the power of a 9600.

Also upon observation of your memory clock rates, they seem DDR3 like (mines at 1 or 1.3 GHZ or something). If you are using DDR3 then why the hell would you be using a 7600 GT. Thus I would like to ask if you could please recheck your graphic card as you probably have incorrectly read its name (which can happen).

 

[BlargHonk]

The 9600 is not an 8800GT

It is a modified 8800GTS

The 9800GT is a 8800GT...


Haven't I told you this before?

 

[Deleted member 157129]

The_Reborn_Devil, try playing TES oblivion at max? My 7800 could not max that well and you have a....


That should have real problems with FPS when running with grass at max and HDR on (if it could turn HDR on as I do not think it has the shader 3.0 needed).

Are you sure you do not mean you have a "9600"? That can run crysis and stuff well and max TES oblivion easilly but that is a DX10 card based on the 8800. The 7600 is not even a full DX9 card I believe and is like 1/8-1/16th of the power of a 9600.

Also upon observation of your memory clock rates, they seem DDR3 like (mines at 1 or 1.3 GHZ or something). If you are using DDR3 then why the hell would you be using a 7600 GT. Thus I would like to ask if you could please recheck your graphic card as you probably have incorrectly read its name (which can happen).

Actually, I know this very well, it is indeed an old GPU. The computer was recently upgraded with a new motherboard, CPU and RAM, while the GPU is two-three years old. I am not sure about the model number, but it is indeed a 7000 series card, and not a 9000 series. Please do note TRD is running a rather small screen, on a 32-bit XP SP3, so the highest graphic setting are not even available. Whether it does run Crysis at full graphics I have my doubts, but I do not know.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Did I mention it was one? It is still based on an 8800 card like I said so what are you on about?

 

[The Reborn Devil]

I can play Oblivion at the highest graphics with HDR on. Even with my old computer (it did lag a little when a lot was going on though).
And my screen resolution is 1280 x 1024 (I want new screen :<).

And GeForce 7600 GT got Pixel Shader 3.0

 

[Dr Super Good]

Do you get playable FPS (what I mean by handle which generally is 30 FPS+ and dips to atleast 20 FPS at times)? My 7800 could not get playable FPS rates when grass was set to max, HDR on and stuff like that.

Also you can not play on max ingame with AA enabled, DX 10 cards however can.

Are you certain you get playable FPS (30ish or more)? as you are reporting preformance matching an 8800 or better card which makes no sense considering how week the 7600 was. It has 1/4 the fillrate of an 8800 and that struggles with modern games at max.

 

[Deleted member 157129]

Do you get playable FPS (what I mean by handle which generally is 30 FPS+ and dips to atleast 20 FPS at times)? My 7800 could not get playable FPS rates when grass was set to max, HDR on and stuff like that.

Also you can not play on max ingame with AA enabled, DX 10 cards however can.

Are you certain you get playable FPS (30ish or more)? as you are reporting preformance matching an 8800 or better card which makes no sense considering how week the 7600 was. It has 1/4 the fillrate of an 8800 and that struggles with modern games at max.

I don't know a whole lot about this, but could it be his CPU was/is helping out a lot, ie that the work is shared (would of course require multi-threaded software)? Considering what he now runs is a AMD Phenom II Quad-core at 3.4GHz?

 

[The Reborn Devil]

I do have a playable FPS (30 or more) and I did have a playable FPS before I upgraded as well, but then I didn't have everything at max (most of it was on max) though.

I think it's my CPU which is helping out. I had an AMD before I upgraded as well. And the one I have now is the one shiiK mentioned, but it's at 3.41 GHz (muahaha) and it's slightly overclocked.

 

[BlargHonk]

Hmmm, try to get it farther up

My AMD tri core goes from 2.8 to 3.2 without volt increase, so shoot for 3.8

 

[Deleted member 157129]

His airflow sucks, no not literally. Though it could probably do a couple hundred MHz more.

 

[BlargHonk]

Ah

I have an Antec 300, 120mm Out on the bottom PSU, 120mm Out on the back, 140mm Out on the top, 80mm In on the side (added myself, in a 120mm slot)

Space for 2 120 In's on the front, and 1 120 In on the side if I take the 80mm out

Oh, and another 120mm blowing towards back on the heatsink, and a 90mm on the GPU

Heatsink is also a SunbeamTech Core Contact Freezer, one of the best you can buy, beats a CM V8 any day.

 

[Deleted member 157129]

Hehe, as far as I recall he's got a 140mm (180mm?) on the side, and then just the Heatsink (standard that comes with the AMD Phenom II X4) and PSU fan.. it's not possible to expand on it, it's a rather .. I don't know, tight case.

Personally I've got an Antec1200; 3 120mm fans in front; 2 120mm fans behind; 1 200mm fan on top; plus slots for one 120mm on the side and one internal 120mm.

 

[The Reborn Devil]

Roflz. I haz slightly overclocked it noaw
Instead of 3.41+1% it's 3.41+2%
Which is 3.4782 GHz

 

[Deleted member 157129]

Roflz. I haz slightly overclocked it noaw
Instead of 3.41+1% it's 3.41+2%
Which is 3.4782 GHz

Tsk tsk.. 100% FTW!!!!!11111elleven

 

[The Reborn Devil]

The max is +30% :/

Oh, and it's !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111oneone

 

[Deleted member 157129]

The max is +30% :/

Oh, and it's !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111oneone

Tsk tsk.. 100% FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111oneone

Fixed.

 

[BlargHonk]

30% OC max?

But then you can't take a 2.5 ghz E5200 to 4ghz D:

D:

D:

I have done that before.



There is probably a manual mode somewhere

 

[Deleted member 157129]

Aye, +30% us probably the "safe" overclocking available, meaning it can probably be done with the heatsink alone. Go clock it in BIOS instead. :>
Though seriously, before you do any OC you need to get a case with more cooling opportunities. Like the Antec1200! It's the same price as your damn CPU. XD

 

[Dr Super Good]

I could probably OC my I7 like 30%+, however I have no need to currently lol.
The whole problem is upping voltage will lower its life time and stuff.

 

[The Reborn Devil]

Oh, I forgot about the BIOS
I overclocked it slightly there too. Dunno how much ^^

Though seriously, before you do any OC you need to get a case with more cooling opportunities. Like the Antec1200! It's the same price as your damn CPU. XD

I WANT OIL COOLING!!!!

 

[BlargHonk]

Also, shiik, the HAF932 kicks the Antec 1200's ass for $20 less


Remember, do not buy a pre-made liquid cooler, they suck, buy individual parts and hook them together yourself


Hell, if I got a new pump and a block for AM3, I could liquid cool this....

Had it on an old Dell, omegaclocking a 200mhz processor to 300mhz