Neatherland Conflict v0.34a

[Hashinshin]

Have gotten one fatal error, right on the third "burst" from the tau's ultimate. Might be unrelated, thats what I was looking at.

 

[Hashinshin]

Ok, lemme say what detail I'd like to see in a 0.31C patch:

-Flags only give 100 gold per capture.
-Creeps give 50% less gold per kill.
-Gold income for controlling flags reduced by 1/2.
-You start with 200 less gold.
-Fireball now only scale off 1x instead of 2x stats.
-New hero's ultimate now does 3x agility with 30% more base damage.
-Axe, staff, sword, ect: Now give +5 stats. In addition, cost 600 gold instead of 500 now.
-Blood cultist's blood demons: Higher levels of demons have more damage now. (Increase the damage and scaling by about 20% on rank 3+ demons.)
-Death deal now loses 2 seconds cooldown per rank up (-8 seconds on rank 5 to 52 second cooldown.) In addition, enemy targets move 50% slower for 2 seconds.
-Blood rage: 1. Fixed tool tip to say 50%. 2. Now gives 1 additional armor at each rank, to 1/2/3/4/5 bonus armor.
-Blood cultist now has 50 more base life.
-Sacrifice now has 10 seconds less cooldown.
-Holy light (paladin heal) now only 1.5x strength.
-Ice lance and fire wave STILL on C hotkey.

(Lots of buffs for blood cultist I know, but hes subpar right now and its not because of any one thing. Hes a hero where almost every ability is subpar. Suggesting minor things to his various abilities to increase survivability and damage.)

I think this item system is causing issues. Strength heroes now start pretty much with the same HPs as other heroes, and they can't start getting more HP until they gain something like 2000 gold. This new +5 stat system would help them out. MOST IMPORTANTLY THOUGH, the gold needs a severe tune down. I'm just floating huge amounts of gold just WAY TOO FAST.

Things for the future that can't just be fixed quickly.
-I'd like to see mummy get some sort of innate "decay" ability. Right now hes a little subpar, has always been subpar, and I think something to further his theme of wearing the enemy away would be great. Something like a damage aura. Does 10 + 1/10 strength a second in 400 AoE. Something really cool I think is if he could instantly kill any non hero non super mob. Like on a 50 second cooldown he can turn any target into sand that just blows into the wind (obviously dead now.) The ultimate form of decay. I really wanna see something like turning enemies into sand.
-New ultimate for tauren. Possibly something that charges him into the enemy then picks them up and lets you throw them.
-Scaling for trapper's traps.

My ideal item situation:
- items with +5 stats cost no "items" merely gold. 500 gold for +5 stats. (Buy at the start of the game.)
-For 700 gold and items you can make an advanced version of that +5 stat item for a +10 stat item.
-items with +10 stats upgraded into the super items we have now.

As we speak I have 6500 gold, no items to make stuff with, and an ultimate item already... level 14. If we did one HALF to gold intake right now it'd still be really high. Keep item drops the same, but reduce gold significantly. Its just ANNOYING having to look non stop for items because you have just ludicrous amount of gold. Its become more of an item finder map than an AoS.

 

[Zacharias]

Ok that sounds good. thx.
Will also recheck that Ion Beam, just to get sure...

Edit: someone reported to me that he was kicked when killed by the mountain king, if yomeone could validate that it would really really help me. Anyway i will recheck that trigger. ty.
Btw Ion Beam works well, no crashes detected for now.

Edit: Detected a bug when killing or when get killed by mine boss.

Edit: Will add 5 base attributes per item and introduce several new low-lvl items (magical). I would like to make a shop full of magical and one full of rare items for every class, therefore double the current number of items.

 

[Hashinshin]

So how is the progress ?

 

[Zacharias]

So how is the progress ?

Well released it some minutes ago.
As you can see i spent most of the time in fixing the mountain king bug, rebalancing the new items etc and adding some comfort features like stacking pots.

I hope its a clean and stable version that can be used for balancing the items, cause that´s what the map needs now, imho.

I also added a Artefact shop, which is not openned now, ideas always welcome. I would like to limit artefact that can be worn by 2, so you will have to choose them carefully. They will not give you +100 stats, but very powerfull passive or active spells. As always, their abilities will be triggered, maybe scaled by the hero lvl.


gl & hf
zachy

 

[Hashinshin]

Fire raven's third ability is jumping out at me as broken. It scales way too well for a no mana AoE. Instead of 1/2 agility make it 1/3, and trim back it's base damage by a bit too. Right now combined with fire arrow fire raven can take out entire rows of infantry without even blinking.

Item system is nice. Compound bow seems a little too good though. Fantastic stats + 5 second entangle ? I'd either lower it to 20 agility 20 damage or 3 second entangle.

I'd still like to see "+10 stat" items between the base items and the super items though. You go from +5 agility to +30 agility +30 damage, seems too much of a jump.

Super artifact items could be interesting, but I'm just worried that all the focus on damage and little on actually surviving 2 spells would make the game seem too fast.

Creeps seem to still be giving a little too much gold. When I'm a hero who can AoE I seem to just be floating obscene amounts of gold. Can we cut the current gold from kills by maybe 20% ? In addition, black golems are still giving 660 some gold, cut that right in half.

 

[Zacharias]

Fire raven's third ability is jumping out at me as broken. It scales way too well for a no mana AoE. Instead of 1/2 agility make it 1/3, and trim back it's base damage by a bit too. Right now combined with fire arrow fire raven can take out entire rows of infantry without even blinking.

K will check the balance.

Item system is nice. Compound bow seems a little too good though. Fantastic stats + 5 second entangle ? I'd either lower it to 20 agility 20 damage or 3 second entangle.

Ok.

I'd still like to see "+10 stat" items between the base items and the super items though. You go from +5 agility to +30 agility +30 damage, seems too much of a jump.

That would lead to the complicated item recipe system we had before, i simply dont like the idea. I would rather prefere to tune down all other items or increase the stats boni on the basic items.

Super artifact items could be interesting, but I'm just worried that all the focus on damage and little on actually surviving 2 spells would make the game seem too fast.

Ok i will take care of that problem, but i already told you that they mostly just give awesome, mostly passive, spells. They wont morph your hero to superman ^^

Creeps seem to still be giving a little too much gold. When I'm a hero who can AoE I seem to just be floating obscene amounts of gold. Can we cut the current gold from kills by maybe 20% ? In addition, black golems are still giving 660 some gold, cut that right in half.

Yes we can

 

[Alfred]

a Very good map, i´ve played it with a friend like 6 times, and counting.

 

[Hashinshin]

Battlemage's description at inn says int, not strength.

Mummy's ultimate crashed the game. Hit a lone hero twice, then crash. Later on, hit once then crash. Its the ultimate, its bugged.
-I think, for visual purposes, the mummy's AOE should be changed to a sand AoE instead of the bats. Just make it a line of sand.
-New ability is awesomesauce.

Issue with blood cultist that I think can't be overlooked anymore. His blood god form is being SLAUGHTERED by this item system. Not only do you lose gold, but now you lose all your items. I'm gonna go as far as to say that after blood god the blood cultist should just be returned his normal form at the same life he had in blood god.

Death revenant's ultimate should go down to 140 seconds. For a 180 second cooldown ability its just too situational, I think the massive drawbacks mean it should be 2 minutes CD, if not 2 minutes then 140 seconds.
-His stun is working in a very funky likable way. It does a sort of visual effect, then 2 seconds later does the stun but doesn't heal. Its actually rather cool and makes the 2x agility modifier worth it. Its really the only thing going for him right now.
-His AoE is OK, kinda. Its not that great.
-His aura should be changed to a buff instead of an aura. The visual gets annoying after awhile and most people just get rank 1 and leave it on forever for the mana.

Can you please reduce the range and damage on holy bolt a little further? Give holy bolt like 300 range so you can avoid the massive damage it does. A good ezekiel is pretty much dominant in this game, nobody can match him. In addition, can you slow down his speed to the speed of the other heroes ? It seems like hes got a higher base speed.

Some error where everyone gets like a 7 second delay. Its definitely not me, but just randomly a massive delay happens. I was using the fire dragon. Might be linked to organic flame.

Uhhhhh... blood cultist is immune to damage when below 40% life. Was happening at rank 2, might be all ranks.

Mine boss still causing server splits :-/ when he dies server splits.

Alchemy is too strong. I suggest reducing it's mana gain to 1/2 of what it is now (or less) or doubling it's cooldown. EVERYONE goes alchemy and spams it for infinite mana.

Upgrades for troops are getting funky. Evil side keeps getting higher levels of upgrades than the good side. Twice now its ended at 9 for evil, 5 for good.

A B version to sort out the crash, and splits: mummy, blood cultist, mine boss, and fire dragon would be awesome. In addition to the upgrade issue. Not even to balance anything, just for the more glaring uhhh... crashing issues.

If you want a review: Its really really fun, only that theres a few glaring crashing issues that make me cautious about hosting this. I played it about 15 times tonight (no joke, for like 7 hours!) and only started noticing them all at the end. However, once you start noticing that one side ends with 9 uprades and the other 5 its hard to overlook >_>. Alchemy is basically unlimited mana, which is really fun with mummy. I only wish mummy had even more sand to throw at the enemy, I half suggest removing his skeletons for even more sandy spells. All the heroes feel more fun for some reason.

the sand is a really cool looking effect, I love it.

 

[Zacharias]

Ok thx as always. I will tryto release an a) version today or tomorrow.

 

[Hashinshin]

Ok, the commander is one of the more uh... bland heroes. Almost nobody chooses him, and when they do 1/2 of them call him boring. As such I have a 3 part idea to make him more unique.
-Stance system. He gets 1 innate stance and 1 from abilities (replacing his auras.)
-Stances all override each other. He only gets to have one active at a time.
-Innate stance is a the defensive stance. You move 20% slower but take 20% less damage.
-Stance from abilities is a berserker stance. You take 10/15/20/25/30% more damage and deal that much more damage.
-He keeps one of the auras, probably the armor one.
-Possibly move the aura to innate and give the stances in skills so people can't just keep the defensive one and not put points into the berserker.
-He MUST be in a stance. As such, if he wants to move at normal speed he has to be in berserker. Possibly a third "no stance" stance, but I think a drawback would be interesting. Stances buff all allies with their effect too within a say 600 AoE radius. He is the commander after all.

That would give him a little choice in what to do, he could stay defensive or go offensive, might not work out well at all and have people just use the defensive stance at all times and not put points into the offensive stance.

As for some others, I have a few innate ability suggestions:
Gaias mage (formerly gayas mage, hehe): I think he could really do with an innate heal. Something like heals for 150 + 1.5x intellect. I know you really hate the heal idea, but thats what I think.

Dark lord: I had this really cool idea where he could turn an allied hero (NOT HIMSELF) into a dark god for a limited amount of time. It'd be kind of like the blood cultist's ultimate, only works on allies only. Since dark lord is VERY low damage and is generally considered one of the weaker heroes I think this would give him an interesting advantage. The chaos god I think would be something like a giant demon with a sword who has cleave. He also gets something like a 2 second cast time AoE that explodes outwards from him for say 600 AoE. It would last something like 20 seconds and the hero would be returned to their normal selves after that. Something like a 180 second cooldown with a 200 mana cost.

Fear (although I'm unsure about this one, I'm gonna have to play her more to see if she is actually weak or if bad people just play her. Ok I lied by saying play her more, I've never played her xD)
-I'm thinking of some sort of effect that allows her a lot of mobility. This ability could also be given to assassin or blademaster, but I'm not sure. Basically, you move 25% faster for 7 seconds then move 25% slower for 5 seconds. Not a big deal, just a gap closer to ranged heroes that doesn't let you sit on them and allows them to get away.

There are a few more I've been thinking of, but these are just three underused heroes who I think could use some interesting concepts (or for gaias mage just more utility.) I think more healing spread around couldn't be a bad thing for the good side, would help counteract evil's DoTs effects.

 

[Zacharias]

Ok thx for all ideas, will take them into consideration. Currently i´m very busy, but not inactive. I found the bug in the sandstorm, more or less, i can now reproduce it.
Plz be patient i know it´s time for a release since 4 days....

 

[Hashinshin]

Well I hope you do good on whatever you are busy with.

 

[Zacharias]

Well i hope it too XD

I fixed the bug in sandstorm. A very unusuall wc3-bug: when damaging a moing unit with life regeneration aura more then 4 times a second it causes a fatal error. Dont ask me why, i've tested it a whole day.

It´s not reproduceable in any other trigger

Edit 9th May:
- i fixed all errors reported (i hope so);
- will unlock 2 artifacts
- several balancing changes (as Hashinshin suggested)
maybe i will change some abilities, i keep on working will sunday (tomorrow), maybe then release an update.

 

[Hashinshin]

well the artifacts sound interesting. Are they just going to be basic items upgraded with a like 9000 gold tag ?

 

[Zacharias]

nono, as i said i will give them a unique touch. Like rare stats, auras or usefull abilities (triggered). Goldcost about 3000, but will need more mats (>10), but as always limited to 2 different sorts of raw materials.

 

[Bizz]

Just played last version... enemy just pushed, got giant army and once again we could not do anything against that much units. Or better to say we just lost by the timer, that I had no idea how to stop. Game took like 10 mins... Tatally worse than b4.

 

[Zacharias]

Just played last version... enemy just pushed, got giant army and once again we could not do anything against that much units. Or better to say we just lost by the timer, that I had no idea how to stop. Game took like 10 mins... Tatally worse than b4.

hmhmhm i mentioned that problem a while ago in my notes. Well i reduced creep hp in the last version a bit, but i dunno what to do next. Maybe reduce armor bonus, i will test some things through.
Decrease spawns wont have the correct effect i think, because then its easier to push forward, as you can walk further till reaching the enemy.

 

[Hashinshin]

Me and psychoninja call the flag rule the "Slaughter rule."

If one side is getting slaughtered the game will end. If its even CLOSE to an even fight the 5 flag rule will never come into effect. Really, its just a way to end games if the sides are way too uneven in skill.

How is the new version comming?

 

[Zacharias]

Well i´m working on it, current change log:

changelist [not finished...]

New:

• Carrion Swarm changed to Sand Wave, including new effect
• Profession: notifier on upgrade
• New Ability: Tornado: orbtited by rocks, this tornado damages and stuns enemy units (replaces Morph, Gaias mage)
• New Ability: Revitalize: heals and gives additional armor (Gaias mage)

Fixed:

• Sandstorm: made some changes, dunno if this fixes the fatal errors
• Blood Frenzy wont make the hero invulnerable and gives now the correct amount of boni
• Aging: wont affect buildings anymore
• -random: will now add hero name to player name
• Oil towers: fixed death animation
• Corrupted Golem: fixed ability menu
• Charm, Ring: fixed sell value
• Fixed tooltip: Glamour Shield, Chain Mail, Dark Rage, Cloak of Void, Scepter of Light

Balance:

• Blood God: wont kill the caster anymore
• Dimension Gap: reduced cooldown to 140s
• Dark Rage: massivly increased dmg boni to [20|30|40|50|60]%, mana usage decreased to [6|9|12|15|18]
• HolyBolt: reduced range to 350, secondary dmg is now scaled by 0.6xAGI
• Archangel: reduced movement speed by 20 to 290
• Alchemy: reduced mana refresh to [100|150|200|250|300], increased cooldown to 90
• Nerubian Death Revenant: changed stats, more STR, less INT
• Daemon Hound: reduced move and attack speed, mana feedback dmg
• Daemonic Curse: reduced scaling to INT/10
• Golem and Infernal: reduced hp and dmg
• Black Golem: reduced bounty by 50%
• Hermit: now deals same dmg as Ironheart
• Inflame: reduced dmg to [54|72|90|108|126]+AGI/3
• Compound Bow: now ensares 3seconds (-2s)
• Reduced bounty of force creeps a bit (-2)
• Charm: now only needs 1 life and 2 mana essences
• Changed weapon upgrade: arches and mages wont get as strong as before

I tested new upgrades a bit and i think its now possible to turn the tide, even when all flags are captured.

Passed 3 exams, a full weekend, 6h-sleep-nights for weeks now, need to work on the particle physics exercise sheet for tomorrow and i had maybe 5mins to remember that it´s my 22th birthday today.... well just... just give me a break

 

[Hashinshin]

Well hey, you don't have to work on neatherland lol. Take your time with more important stuff, like school.

And happy 22nd birthday.

 

[Zacharias]

Well hey, you don't have to work on neatherland lol. Take your time with more important stuff, like school.

Well i worked on it maybe 10hrs in the last week and should have finished days ago. Don´t worry about my study, it wont miss out. I worry more about my sleep, which is getting shorter and shorter each day.

And happy 22nd birthday.

thx.

Well back to the topic, need some more input about stance system. I know what you want, but there are a few problems.
First i need to find several similar abilities that change animation state (morph, defense.) so cooldowns wont mess up, thats my part. But all will look the same as commander only has defense/normal animations.
Second. Should i replace both auras, so we get 3 stances? Keep defense stance/change to aura. Suggestion: 2 stances, offensive (dmg, attack speed) and defensive (armor, reflecting dmg, reduce move), inherit will change to ardent steel (dmg aura).
Third. As i said i cant change animations, maybe its possible to add a "berserk"-effect to offensive state (red glowing sword).

 

[Hashinshin]

Theres defensive, offensive, and what would the third one be ?

Having the same look would be fine, really.

 

[Zacharias]

Well i dont know ^^
Maybe something supporting? But i dont want to knock out the Battle Mage with his movve- and mana spells.

 

[Hashinshin]

I uh... can't think of anything, heh. Theres damage, movement, and defense in this game. Unless you added some sort of special attack aura.

 

[Zacharias]

Well we also got a armor reducing one, think of nerubian revenant. Spelldmg could be possible but would be a bit... useless for creeps. Damaging aura like immolation is just boring... so well...
Maybe something like morale?
How about Rush, Create Outpost, 2 stances (defense, offense) and a special morale aura as inherit? Increased life regen, +critical strike to all units? XD

 

[Hashinshin]

That sounds nice. I know this sounds short but thats all I had lol.

 

[Zacharias]

No problem, i will think about it and improve the idea till it's good enought to be implemented

Well i thought about it and i will implement a creep-AI, which will flee and reunite again when meeting other units etc etc
After this implementation i got 2 ideas, one for Commander Aura and one for the Dark Lord. Stay tuned.

 

[Yokienshi1014]

Been quite a while since I've caught myself up here, but back last when i played with hash he was using the new scaling of the huntress and one of the things i learned was that hash is really good at pissing me off >.<
constantly luring me into traps which is i guess intended by the trapper but at any given time he could have layed traps on top of each other to just get off an instant kill which he did once by putting them on the teleporter exit causing a sort of spawn kill >.>
with that said suggesting either less scalling which may not solve the problem due to just putting more down but possible a buff to the scaling but only allowing one trap or just putting a limit to the number of traps possible.

also happy 22nd ^^ and like hash said don't feel too compelled to work your sleep away, we're not that important =P

 

[Zacharias]

Well i think lmitations of mines/reducing the timed life will resolve the issue.
I´m glad that you are still testing my map

Well when i´m working on NeCo its the only time where i can turn my physical brain off - more or less. It´s always very nice to see a release spreading in the www and bnet It´s more like a drug, then real work.

 

[Hashinshin]

I think a limit of... 4 mines would do the trick, with 2 minute life span.

Not to sound impatient, but when IS next release . Hoping to play mummy soon but his bugged ultimate doesn't let me. Sad face.

 

[Zacharias]

Kk.
Well i want to finish the flee system. Currently it works fine, some fine tuning and it can be used.
I will release it after that - today if possible.

Edit: everything works now, but as i have found the issue with the massive delay on late game i will try to fix them (leaks)
Edit2: No leaks btw the map has 18169 lines code ^^
Edit3: i decided to release it, even if the delay problem is still there... i think map allocates too much memory, someone plz verify that

 

[Hashinshin]

Uh, haha.

You left in "gold" and "take over" debug scripts. Don't suppose you can just quick fix those and those alone? Seriously just those two lol.

Might be related to the lag. but if not, remove the flee system and see if that works. Lag does become unplayable very fast.

I hate to do it again, but its unplayable currently.

I wills say, flee system is pretty damn cool.

 

[Yokienshi1014]

to agree with Hash the flee system is nice makes the field feel more in depth cause instead of people just running into each other in lines the battles become more scattered to make for a really subtle but cool effect.

as far as this patch goes I'd be playing it right now but I can't host and hash doesn't want to (>.<) can't wait for the update so i can play some more.

and for some things completely different

Idea for trapper's innate ability : Tracking - simply allows you to have sight on targets you have hit for a certain amount of time (this could make her able to use her traps without having to lure people into them.

as far as the tornado goes works well but doesn't seem to do that much damage.
-though that might be intended cause the deer do most of the work while the targets are stunned

good patch, just the lag and the debug scripts =(

 

[Zacharias]

-though that might be intended cause the deer do most of the work while the targets are stunned

Yes, thats intended. Dmg+Stunlock would be a bit too strong, wouldn´t it?

good patch, just the lag and the debug scripts =(

Debug scripts removed.
Regarding the lags:
well at first i don´t know where they come from, maybe just too much code around there. I will do a series of testings. I hope it´s just an issue in the code and not a stupid warcraft 3-allocating problem.

Edit: Got the problem, the wc3engine seems to be overloaded. So i will spent some time on optimizing those periodical triggers.

 

[Hashinshin]

Well sounds fantastic, if you can optimize it and push out another version that'd be great.

I did notice mummy crashed with his ultimate again.
-Mummy's ability menu still reads carrion swarm, but once you get it it reads correctly.

Gonna play more games later today.

 

[Bizz]

I think I got an idea, why the mass creep waves happen. Its cause that terror thing. I don't know how it works, but it seems like units have some chance of fearing some amount of enemy troops. I know that you wanted to be original... but the thing is very simple. if there are more than 10 - 12 units they will just chain feat.. yeah, that sux, cause other side's troops will just do 0 dmg and the wave will grow. And since they will always run away, it will take more time to take them down, what means more time for units to stack. You should do something. You can lower the chance of fear (if its %, if not, than make a bigger cooldown). But it will be better if you will make units, that was fared, immune to fear for some time.

PS, seen a fight of 1 caster creep vs 5 footmen, and she feared them, that was funny ^^

 

[Hashinshin]

I see the mass creep waves, and its not a new thing. Once a lane starts to build up they just continue to build up until they hit the towers. I don't see why this is an issue. Its how the game has worked since day 1. Once a lane starts to push forward they start spawning more troops than the enemy can kill till they hit the towers. The towers clear em out and then you can push back.

 

[Zacharias]

fear?
Well its not a spell, it's calculated. Units fear when 2 conditions are met:
- at least two enemy units near target
- the hp-sum of all near units is twice as high as the sum of the allied hp

Again, it´s heavily triggered, not done with spells

Regarding the problem: well maybe i should decrease creep spawn rate. Or limit number of units on a lane?

Edit postet the sandstorm trigger in forum, i dunno whats wrong, i really have no idea.
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/triggers-and-scripts-269/help-function-causes-fatal-error-127667/

 

[Hashinshin]

I don't see the issue here. I really don't. You're gonna screw with the game if you change anything.

Creeps charge to the middle. Flag guards and heroes keep it even. Once the flag guards die and heroes are forced back one side picks up. They gain numbers on their way to the towers. Towers kill them, heroes now have a chance to push back.

Thats how its worked and has always worked, I'm really not understanding the problem.

Hey, there is one issue: Good side is still capped at 5 upgrades. Thats kinda a big issue.

 

[Bizz]

fear?
Well its not a spell, it's calculated. Units fear when 2 conditions are met:
- at least two enemy units near target
- the hp-sum of all near units is twice as high as the sum of the allied hp

Again, it´s heavily triggered, not done with spells

Regarding the problem: well maybe i should decrease creep spawn rate. Or limit number of units on a lane?

Edit postet the sandstorm trigger in forum, i dunno whats wrong, i really have no idea.
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/triggers-and-scripts-269/help-function-causes-fatal-error-127667/

As I already told, the problem is, that if there are 2 times more enemy units, the other team's units will not do ANY damage since they will be feared all the time. Thats the problem. As soon as amount of enemy hits this critical point, they will not loose any HP until they will hit the towers. The problem is, that it still will take some time 4 towers to clear it, and we only have towers at the base (and 2 defending units are no match to an army), so that means this lane WILL me controlled by the enemy for at least 3-5 mins (may be less, but only later in the game). So basically cause of this armys will just ping-pong from one base to another.

I don't mean to be rude, but if u want a good balanced map, it should be able to play VERY long time by itself, if no one will do anything. but here, if you will just create the map and watch, with out doing anything, the game will end in 10-15 mins. The point of AoS is to use heroes to help win, cause with out them, the battle might never end. But here we don't really need heroes to win, cause after 3-4 waves towers will just fall, even if there is no heroes.

As I already told, the best way to prevent this, is to limit fear, so the mobs will not me constant running away.

 

[Zacharias]

The problem occured also without fear. I´ve tested it. Fear reduces the problem, as battles spread out more and take longer.

 

[Hashinshin]

Hey I just wanna assert again:

1. This is not a problem, this is how its always been.

2. Good side is capped at 5 upgrades.

 

[Bizz]

Hey I just wanna assert again:

1. This is not a problem, this is how its always been.

2. Good side is capped at 5 upgrades.

Looks like some people aren't even trying to understand. There IS a problem, and it grows bigger with fewer people. Ever tried to do anything against 25 units with a lvl 6 hero, when all of your troops are running around in fear?

The problem is that you basically get overrun every time the direction of push changes. Try to play the game 4x4 with some random ppl that never played this map and you will see, that non of you will get any fun.

 

[Zacharias]

K but the fear system improves the battles a lot. Can you give other suggestions to solve that problem, or at least to defuse the issue?

 

[Yokienshi1014]

Upgrade 5 vs upgrade 9 (>.<)

Hey I just wanna assert again:

1. This is not a problem, this is how its always been.

2. Good side is capped at 5 upgrades.

Right please fix that, its not really a game anymore but more of a
good side must win within 5 upgrades or else it will become increasingly more impossible for you, and i think i finally understand what bizz i think his name is is talking about.

once the game progresses far enough, the evil mobs will do enough damage with their attacks that it will cause them to run away.

in example upgrade 9 evil unit and an upgrade 5 good unit meet up,
-evil units and good units hit each other once or twice
-good units run away and are tracked down and killed
-rinse and repeat

explaining why it seems to him that there is an absurd amount of (I'm guessing) evil troops running around

- so yea please fix it =\

 

[Zacharias]

Ok i see. Next update can be released possibly today. Performance is now good, will do a 1hour test.
Meanwhile i try to defuse the upgrade issue and the sandstorm error.

 

[Bizz]

K but the fear system improves the battles a lot. Can you give other suggestions to solve that problem, or at least to defuse the issue?

As I told the best way to solve this is to edit the script and make feared units immune to fear for some time. Right now I don't have any more ideas, but I'll think about it. Oh and eah, I love the idea of fear, but it must be properly set.

 

[Zacharias]

Well currently fleeing units reunite with the next wave when reaching them or spread out, which both improves the battle and makes much more fun then just killing wave by wave.

Make them immune would destroy the first point, fall back and reunite.
Spreading out also means that it takes much longer for enemy creeps to kill the wave, so the wave wont get far on the lane till the next wave reaches it.

Edit: I didn´t found any problem regarding the creep upgrades. Both update till level 9. You know that destroying barracks and houses updates the enemy creep level? Should i remove that?

 

[Bizz]

Well currently fleeing units reunite with the next wave when reaching them or spread out, which both improves the battle and makes much more fun then just killing wave by wave.

Make them immune would destroy the first point, fall back and reunite.
Spreading out also means that it takes much longer for enemy creeps to kill the wave, so the wave wont get far on the lane till the next wave reaches it.

Well, it does not work that way. The problem is that when, as u told "Well currently fleeing units reunite with the next wave when reaching them or spread out" they don't unite, but get killed one buy one, while the other side units unite and the next wave get scared as well. And it happens again and again until they reach the towers.