Multiple custom Burrow ability

[AsianSpaghetti]

I'm currently working on a map where multiple units needs to have a burrow ability, so I made a lot of copy of the Crypt Fiend burrow, and had made alternate burrowed version of the units
But why does the first copy(custom Burrow 1) onrly works and rest doesn't(custom Burrow 2...)? Unit A's burrow works, but when Unit B's burrow(which has the correct alternate unit on it), it won't burrow and unburrow skill appear but greyred out probably because it's waiting for the unit to burrow that will never burrow but if I use the custom burrow #1 to use for Unit B, the burrow will work as intended, but the custom burrow #2 won't work, even if I use other order strong or other burrow, even tried metamorphosis but does the same thing

Is it a hardcoded stuff? If it is I need some help for other workarounds, or am I just missing something, any help is appreciated

 

[O_Vazio]

@AsianSpaghetti

I believe that for your project it would be easier to use a Custom Channel-based ability combined with an Action on a Trigger that would Remove the Caster Unit and Create a new unit based on the Burrowed Crypt Fiend.

It's important to note that you need another Channel-based ability and another Action on a Trigger to recreate the Original Unit. This ability must be added to the Burrowed Crypt Fiend-based unit.

It will be laborious to refine these abilities, but it's a safe way and offers great possibilities for customizing with special effects, etc.

Unfortunately, I don't know how to use the option to add WC3 triggers here in the reply. It didn't seem intuitive at all. Otherwise, I would put a sketch of the trigger here.

 

[AsianSpaghetti]

@AsianSpaghetti

I believe that for your project it would be easier to use a Custom Channel-based ability combined with an Action on a Trigger that would Remove the Caster Unit and Create a new unit based on the Burrowed Crypt Fiend.

It's important to note that you need another Channel-based ability and another Action on a Trigger to recreate the Original Unit. This ability must be added to the Burrowed Crypt Fiend-based unit.

It will be laborious to refine these abilities, but it's a safe way and offers great possibilities for customizing with special effects, etc.

Unfortunately, I don't know how to use the option to add WC3 triggers here in the reply. It didn't seem intuitive at all. Otherwise, I would put a sketch of the trigger here.

I did tried to make a vjass version, but it seems unnatural plus if done this way the morphed form(burrowed form animation of the model) doesn't appear and remained in base, even if I use alternate in required animations names unless I'm missing something or better way in gui triggers, but I did consider it as my last option if I didn't have anything else as an alternative, thanks for the tip still

 

[Chaosium]

In the unit editor did you add the burrowed variant inside this line?

 

[O_Vazio]

I did tried to make a vjass version, but it seems unnatural plus if done this way the morphed form(burrowed form animation of the model) doesn't appear and remained in base, even if I use alternate in required animations names unless I'm missing something or better way in gui triggers, but I did consider it as my last option if I didn't have anything else as an alternative, thanks for the tip still

On second thought, instead of creating a new unit, it would be more appropriate to hide the original unit. This method would preserve the cooldown time of the original unit's abilities.

I'll attach a map to make it easier for you to understand the process. It may take a while.

 

[AsianSpaghetti]

In the unit editor did you add the burrowed variant inside this line?

View attachment 580924

Yepsz,
The custom Burrow #1 i made, works fine, even on other units, but custom burrow #2 does not and so on for other custom burrow, and it's behavior would just become greyed out unburrow and the unit won't burrow at all

 

[AsianSpaghetti]

I'll attatch the map here that im editing it on in case I maybe(and hoping) im just being a dumdum and missed something that prevented it from working, the custom burrows are on the undead, i tried other like metaorphosis but still does not work, anything beyond the first burrow does not work as intended, the units using the burrowed are on the custom night elf units
(I have no plans on uploading this map in any case because I edited the map)
edit: i cant upload the map as a whole so i had to compress and split it to be uplodead

 

[the.Axolotl]

Hi, I've been following this and did some research, I feel like all those shifting abilities fall under State Transformation Systems, so I kinda classified them in a traffic light system:

1. Red - Metamorphosis, Undead Burrow - swap the unit into another state with deep engine involvement (possibly shared global order IDs; hardcoded state handlers resulting in multiple abilities try to control the same state machine)
2. Yellow - Bear Form, Crow Form - sort of hybrid morph system that swaps unit type but in a more “data-driven” way. I'd say less engine enforcement, more editor fields.
3. Green - Stone Form - I feel like this ability is the least engine heavy, also found this, a post from 2020.

All in all, I assume that the first copy works because it’s the only one in the ring so to speak; the second copy steps in, the referee (the engine) gets confused, and the ability grays out – it’s waiting for a burrow that never happens.

---

Some of the workarounds that come to mind:

On second thought, instead of creating a new unit, it would be more appropriate to hide the original unit. This method would preserve the cooldown time of the original unit's abilities.
I'll attach a map to make it easier for you to understand the process. It may take a while.

This is a smart alternative. Also If you want to keep the morphing abilities I would also consider using different transformation abilities for each unit,
base them on different built‑in abilities, each with its own order string:

• Burrow ("burrow") – for one unit type;
• Stone Form ("stoneform") – for another;
• Bear Form ("bearform") – for another;
• Crow Form ("crowform") – for another;

that would Remove the Caster Unit and Create a new unit

- I also considered this approach, but you have to copy life, mana, and any important data manually, I don't know if it's worth the hussle.

---

!Edit: Also came across this post, I'm not sure if this was resolved, but I believe said post with said issues ( if still unresolved by Blizzard ) sums this pretty well.

 

[O_Vazio]

@AsianSpaghetti

I finished creating the sketch map. I did it using YDWE PK (World Editor), which requires patch 1.26 to work. All the variables used are global. It's not perfect, but it's working.

Unfortunately, I couldn't open your map.

What you will still have to do is add the burrowed form of the units in the object editor and edit the triggers according to that form.

 

[AsianSpaghetti]

@AsianSpaghetti

I finished creating the sketch map. I did it using YDWE PK (World Editor), which requires patch 1.26 to work. All the variables used are global. It's not perfect, but it's working.

Unfortunately, I couldn't open your map.

What you will still have to do is add the burrowed form of the units in the object editor and edit the triggers according to that form.

My version is 1.30.4 thats prob why, also imma check it out, thanks

 

[AsianSpaghetti]

Hi, I've been following this and did some research, I feel like all those shifting abilities fall under State Transformation Systems, so I kinda classified them in a traffic light system:

1. Red - Metamorphosis, Undead Burrow - swap the unit into another state with deep engine involvement (possibly shared global order IDs; hardcoded state handlers resulting in multiple abilities try to control the same state machine)
2. Yellow - Bear Form, Crow Form - sort of hybrid morph system that swaps unit type but in a more “data-driven” way. I'd say less engine enforcement, more editor fields.
3. Green - Stone Form - I feel like this ability is the least engine heavy, also found this, a post from 2020.

All in all, I assume that the first copy works because it’s the only one in the ring so to speak; the second copy steps in, the referee (the engine) gets confused, and the ability grays out – it’s waiting for a burrow that never happens.

---

Some of the workarounds that come to mind:

This is a smart alternative. Also If you want to keep the morphing abilities I would also consider using different transformation abilities for each unit,
base them on different built‑in abilities, each with its own order string:

• Burrow ("burrow") – for one unit type;
• Stone Form ("stoneform") – for another;
• Bear Form ("bearform") – for another;
• Crow Form ("crowform") – for another;

- I also considered this approach, but you have to copy life, mana, and any important data manually, I don't know if it's worth the hussle.

---

!Edit: Also came across this post, I'm not sure if this was resolved, but I believe said post with said issues ( if still unresolved by Blizzard ) sums this pretty well.

I did tried and tested almost everyone of em and heres the result,, still the first one only worked, and I recorded it to show the behavior of it
Zerg has Crypt fiend burrow, Lurker has stone form(weird that i can use it but the units as the otehr never burrows), hydralisk has bear form, and queen has crow, only stone form has a different behavior but all of em refuses the burrow or change regardless
Edit: If none other alternative works, ill use the trigger alternative, althouugh I need to make the unit morph on its alternate form
Edit2: i did not modify any of their morphing flags either, since I tried to remove the Uninterruptable and the skill does not work entirely anymore

 

[O_Vazio]

Edit: If none other alternative works, ill use the trigger alternative, althouugh I need to make the unit morph on its alternate form

I'm working on a new map that's compatible with the reforged version, which I believe is the version you're using.

The process is taking longer than I expected because the reforged version has bugs that didn't exist in the old WC3. For example, the reforged version doesn't correctly detects "Begins Channeling an ability" and "Begins casting an ability" unit events when the casted ability is channel-based ability.

These events are important because they act as timers in this context.

 

[AsianSpaghetti]

I'm working on a new map that's compatible with the reforged version, which I believe is the version you're using.

The process is taking longer than I expected because the reforged version has bugs that didn't exist in the old WC3. For example, the reforged version doesn't correctly detects "Begins Channeling an ability" and "Begins casting an ability" unit events when the casted ability is channel-based ability.

These events are important because they act as timers in this context.

My version is 1.30.4, it's actually still the classic one

 

[O_Vazio]

My version is 1.30.4, it's actually still the classic one

Hmm, true. Even so, there's a possibility that whoever is going to play your map will use the reforged version.

 

[O_Vazio]

The map is almost ready. Just a few adjustments are needed. I think it will be finished tomorrow.

 

[AsianSpaghetti]

The map is almost ready. Just a few adjustments are needed. I think it will be finished tomorrow.

Thanks for your help man, greatly appreciated

 

[O_Vazio]

@AsianSpaghetti

I recorded this video to demonstrate how the ability is working in different units.

First (Abomination): a dummy unit is created to simulate the burrow action, since the Abomination unit doesn't have an appropriate animation for this.
*Note that unit portrait is showing the Crypt Fiend portrait (it is the basis for the dummy unit). I'm still figuring out a way to safely remove the portrait.

Second (Carrion Beetle): the burrowed form of this unit is created (edit in object editor). It doesn't require a dummy unit.
*Note that just before showing the unburrow animation (morph alternate), this unit appears for a few milliseconds in the stand animation. This is apparently a limitation of this unit model.

Third (Crypt Fiend): the burrowed form of this unit is created (edit in object editor). It doesn't require a dummy unit.

Fourth (Crypt Lord): the burrowed form of this unit is created (edit in object editor).
*Note that because it's a hero-type unit, there may be a large difference in stats between the original unit and its burrowed form. This can be resolved in the triggers, but it will require a lot of work. In that case, I would recommend using a dummy unit.

 

[AsianSpaghetti]

@AsianSpaghetti

I recorded this video to demonstrate how the ability is working in different units.


View attachment 581188

First (Abomination): a dummy unit is created to simulate the burrow action, since the Abomination unit doesn't have an appropriate animation for this.
*Note that unit portrait is showing the Crypt Fiend portrait (it is the basis for the dummy unit). I'm still figuring out a way to safely remove the portrait.

Second (Carrion Beetle): the burrowed form of this unit is created (edit in object editor). It doesn't require a dummy unit.
*Note that just before showing the unburrow animation (morph alternate), this unit appears for a few milliseconds in the stand animation. This is apparently a limitation of this unit model.

Third (Crypt Fiend): the burrowed form of this unit is created (edit in object editor). It doesn't require a dummy unit.

Fourth (Crypt Lord): the burrowed form of this unit is created (edit in object editor).
*Note that because it's a hero-type unit, there may be a large difference in stats between the original unit and its burrowed form. This can be resolved in the triggers, but it will require a lot of work. In that case, I would recommend using a dummy unit.

Aight, I think I get the idea
Thanks a lot man, also for the burrowed/alternate form of the model, did you have it appear in its burrowed/alternate through triggers or just through the required animation name in the object editor?

 

[O_Vazio]

Aight, I think I get the idea
Thanks a lot man, also for the burrowed/alternate form of the model, did you have it appear in its burrowed/alternate through triggers or just through the required animation name in the object editor?

The map is ready.
The script is now written in Jass. This increased compatibility between WC3 versions.

I believe the best way for you to understand how this works is to test the map yourself.

Please, leave your questions here after the test and I will answer them as soon as possible.

*I updated the attached file because there was a small error.

 

[AsianSpaghetti]

The map is ready.
The script is now written in Jass. This increased compatibility between WC3 versions.

I believe the best way for you to understand how this works is to test the map yourself.

Please, leave your questions here after the test and I will answer them as soon as possible.

*I updated the attached file because there was a small error.

I can work with this, I tested the map and its working just great, man thanks a lot, you saved me
Gonna implement it on my map and test it a bit

 

[AsianSpaghetti]

Works mighty fine now, thanks a lot for the help

 

[O_Vazio]

Works mighty fine now, thanks a lot for the help

Oh, nice!
I'm glad I was able to help you in some way. Your map is very beautiful.

I forgot to mention a few details:

1) The burrowed unit must be immune to knockback effects, as it needs to be very close to the coordinates of the original unit to unpause the original unit. This is the purpose of the "This Unit is Burrowed" ability. The attached image shows an example of what can be done.

2) You can leverage the damage detection system used in your map to cause both the original unit and the burrowed unit to take damage simultaneously from the same source. This would eliminate the need to use the trigger "Custom Burrow Ability - Kill Original Unit after Related Unit Dies".

3) Feel free to create new burrow (step 1) and unburrow (step 2) abilities in the object editor to customize the tooltip text and other details as needed.

 

[AsianSpaghetti]

Oh, nice!
I'm glad I was able to help you in some way. Your map is very beautiful.

I forgot to mention a few details:

1) The burrowed unit must be immune to knockback effects, as it needs to be very close to the coordinates of the original unit to unpause the original unit. This is the purpose of the "This Unit is Burrowed" ability. The attached image shows an example of what can be done.

2) You can leverage the damage detection system used in your map to cause both the original unit and the burrowed unit to take damage simultaneously from the same source. This would eliminate the need to use the trigger "Custom Burrow Ability - Kill Original Unit after Related Unit Dies".

3) Feel free to create new burrow (step 1) and unburrow (step 2) abilities in the object editor to customize the tooltip text and other details as needed.

Thanks, gotcha man, if I do ever plan to upload the map, you're going in the credits, since if you don't mind I did plan to tweak the code a bit