Melee Spells Remade -WIP-

[Kixer]

Ok,
Ive decided to start working on a Spellpack that will contain several Melee Spells Remade to be more realistic and usefull.

An example of a spell that could be remade is Shockwave, to make the spell more realistic you could make it push units out its way as well as damageing them.

All the spells will be in JASS and will be completely MUI. They will follow the JESP standard and are ment to be easy to edit and run smoothly in game.

Once a spell has been remade it will be placed in a melee map and will replace the old one. This is so that the spell can be tested ingame in a real melee situation.

This is a list of the spells Im currently planning on remaking but I would appreciate advice of what spells to remake and how.

Spells currently being remade :

1. Shockwave - Pushes units away from the shockwave.
2. Warstomp - Pushs units away from the caster.
3. Fire arrows - Has a chance to set a unit on fire.
4. Chain Lightning - Has a chance to purges units when striking the unit. Chance depends on a ratio of good vs bad buffs ( See DSG's Post )
5. Bladestorm - Damages units according to the distance from the caster and injures units who remain in the storm for too long ( slow and damage ovetr time )
6. Forked Lightning - Strikes a unit with a beam of lighning which has a chance of bouncing to a nearby unit.
7. Imolation - Set units on fire and despells all frost effect/spells.
8. Devine Shield - Renders the Hero immune to damage but still attackable, also the shield will damage nearby undead units and heal allied units for half the damage done to Undead.
9. Death Pact - When a unit is killed a % of the health its lost is dealed in damage to ememy living units.
10. Bash - The chance to bash is based on the level of the unit being attacked.

The project is currently just spell planing/design and more ideas are needed. I also do not have acess to a working WE but that will be sloved soon.

 

[paskovich]

Seems to be a good idea, but don't forget, if they are supposed to replace/enhance normal spells in melee maps, be sure you make them balanced!

 

[Kixer]

Thanks,
im not going to change any of the defult spells stats.
The only problem would be with the extra spell addons (eg fire).
But the stats will be editable.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Shockwave pusing units is a good idea, but pusing them out the way is not.
A real shockwave pushes things back, but only really strong ones drag the things with the wave (even an atomic bomb strugles to do that away from the center). I am sure a tauren chieften can not make a shockwaze that strong so what it should do is make a shockwave that pushes units backwards slightly and stuns them (knocks them over) since that is what real shockwaves do.

Warstomp should damage and stun all foes in a 400-500 radius but the futher away the unit is, the less the stun and damage is (stun drops-out at 300 radius) Nearby units (150 radius) get pushed away from the tauren to 200-300 radius, maybe taking damage when coliding with another unit.

Fire arrows should set the unit on fire when impacting with a chance based on level comparisions, dealing damage overtime and damaging nearby units for a little damage. It should also have a chance to expload, setting all units in a AOE on fire, sort of like a critical strike but with a VERY low chance for ballence.

Chain Lightning should have a chance to purge unit, the chance is based on bluff comparisions (good to bad buffs) and level comparisons. This would mean that if it had 8 bad buffs (good for the caster of chainlightning's owner) and 1 good buff (bad for the caster's owner) it would be less lightly to purge than if it had 1 bad buff and 5 good buffs.

Bladestorm should damage all units equally, but cause them to be pushed arround in a circle slowly. Units that are in the storm for over 1.5 seconds gets cut (slowly loses even more HP) and if it is in for almost the entire storm, it gets badly cut (loses a lot of HP ever second). The buff should wear off in 15-20 seconds and be able to kill the effected unit.

Forked Lightning should not purge units, since it would be boring then, matching chain lightning. Much rather make it a chance that each fork will bounce to another target (even ones that other forks have touched) and deal reduced damage. Since then it would be more impressive and would give a variable damage chance for ballence.

Imolition setting units on fire is a decent idea, but it should also enhance the Demon Hunter's attack by a % of fire spell damage, meaning that on every attack he deals his normal damage + a % of his attack as spell damage. It should also render him immune to all ice spells and dispel Ice Shield from nearby enemies and negitive ice buffs from nearby allies, but doing so costs mana depending on how powerfull the spell stopped/dispelled was.

These are sujections to make the spells REALLY impressive and the sort of spell that would be hard NOT to use they would be so good and unique. This does not mean you need to follow them exactly, but you can take ideas from them to improve your spells.

 

[Kixer]

I like all of your ideas (especialy the good vs bad buff purge) Dr Super Good and im probably going to do those spells that way.
Another idea iv come up with is :
Devine Shield - Unit may be targeted and attacked but will take no damage and will block spells ( to avoid neg buffs ect ). It also burns all nearby undead units.

 

[1)ark_NiTe]

Kixer I like the ideas except Divine Shield, that really haw a bad flaw. It is a Divine Shield, they should not be able to be touched (attacked). Burning nearby Undead units might be a good idea though. Good luck.

 

[Kixer]

I found the main flaw of Devine Sheild is being unable to be attacked. If you could be attacked but the shield absorbs the damage then enemy creeps will not run away or attack other units.

 

[1)ark_NiTe]

If you wanted it to be real though, wouldn't a creep run away if it couldn't harm the being it was trying to kill?

 

[meercat]

If you wanted it to be real though, wouldn't a creep run away if it couldn't harm the being it was trying to kill?

It would be more realistic if nearby enemies trying to get near to the hero will be pushed, pushed and pushed. It's like theres a barrier, enemies are not allowed to touch the hero and for a more realistic feedback; missiles or skills should be tossed away in a nearby aoe/enemy.

 

[paskovich]

It would be more realistic if nearby enemies trying to get near to the hero will be pushed, pushed and pushed. It's like theres a barrier, enemies are not allowed to touch the hero and for a more realistic feedback; missiles or skills should be tossed away in a nearby aoe/enemy.

Think about it This way neither the Paladin could attack units, as they all would be pushed away...

For Warstomp, i would make it like when it is cast, all units would fly into the air (like Impale but not that high), and not pushed away.

Bladestorm should pick up nearby units, and spin them around. Also you should make it to be able to damage destructible, so you could chop down trees with it .

 

[Fulla]

I had an idea like this ages ago, but decided to work on DoD instead.

Shockwave>
As you said, but id make it 'split a path', i.e. when the shockwave impacts, units on left get slid away left, units on right get slid away right.
This way it is more of a disruption spell.

War Stomp
As you said, but make units fly away from the Tauren, Blade.Bk made a nice war stomp spell like this on wc3campaigns.net, in his Arcane Spells spellpack, I strongly recommend looking at it.

Divine Shield
- Perhaps make it activateable/deactivable like Immolation, this way its more useful.
- Make it not make him invulnerable but simply recieve 0 damage.

Death Pact
- If he targets a friendly Hero, instead it consumes some of his HP, and temporarily gives that Hero a 'boost' - Increased Damage, Hp whatever you wish.

Frost Shield
- Now also, when attacked spits out icebolts randomly at nearby enemy units.

Blink
- When finishing blink (reaching destination), surrounding enemy units are slowed very briefly.

Mana Burn
- When you successfully, combust mana from a target, a portion of the damage dealt is also redealt in an AoE around the target. (Cool lightning bounce effects).

Lastly might I recommend, perhaps replacing the odd spell here and there.

Owl Scout >> Channeling Multishot
- Simply a Channeling spell, that sprays/shoots missles overtime.

Far Sight >> Earth Tremor
- A basic AoE damage + minor stun spell.

 

[Kixer]

That was my exact idea for shockwave ( make the wave a unit and move units away from that unit ),
My inspiration was partialy blade.dk's tut,
That was my idea for Devine shield but it will also damage undead,
i dont think your frost shield is realistic,
and no abilities will be removed/replaced with different ones, they will only be enhanced.

 

[Jacek]

Lastly might I recommend, perhaps replacing the odd spell here and there.

Owl Scout >> Channeling Multishot
- Simply a Channeling spell, that sprays/shoots missles overtime.

Far Sight >> Earth Tremor
- A basic AoE damage + minor stun spell.

If you find these spells odd, lern2play plz...

owl scout and farsight are great against blademasters and invisible mortar strategy, or for checking enemy expansions

 

[Fulla]

That was my exact idea for shockwave ( make the wave a unit and move units away from that unit ),
My inspiration was partialy blade.dk's tut,
That was my idea for Devine shield but it will also damage undead,
i dont think your frost shield is realistic,
and no abilities will be removed/replaced with different ones, they will only be enhanced.

For Frost Shield, I meant if the unit is attacked, it spirts out an IceBolt.
So you cant just cast in on a ranged unit at the back.
(Very similiar to the d2 Sorc Frost Shield type skills).

Any plans for upgrading Owl Scout/Farsight then?

 

[Kixer]

I said remake 'several' of the melee spells, some abilities work are pretty realistic and work well as they are. E.G Frost shield (IMO)

But if you have a good idea for either of those spells, please mention them... Id really appreciate it...

 

[Dr Super Good]

A lot of the ideas mentioned here are rubish.

I already remade devine shield in my jass youth. I made it that instead of it being a fixed time, the time was based on mana and was a on/off ability, but the longer it was on the more mana it cost. To avoid exploitation, the drain rate slowly coolsdown. I found that to be a lot more realistic, since it ballenced devine shield so that it can be used in a NON melee environment like a AoS or arena. The idea of burning undead though is a good idea, maybe make it that it also heals allies around for half the damage to undead (to stop tanking imballences).

 

[Kixer]

Hmmm i wouldnt mind taking a look at that spell Dr, any chance you could give me a link? Im still fairly new to JASS spell making ( this project is way of learning ).
But i agree the shield should heal ( or maybe buff? ).

 

[Dr Super Good]

The spell is far too messed up and I wrote it badly.

For the most efficency, you will need to make it so that once the spell is turned on, a timer is started.

That timer runs continously and drains the mana of the caster using handle vars or other systems ofcourse to store the units and mana drain. A time of every 0.5 secs (0.25 if must be) would do for the rate of trigger. The timer checks for the devine shield buff and if it is not on the unit (turned off) then it stops draining and starts cooling down. If the mana of the hero is too low it orders the unit to turn devine shield off and waits for the next buff comparision to do so. If the mana drain rate is fully cooled down, then it kills the timer to stop unneeded processes.

My way used a lot more handles than the above method would and thus had a higher demand. Better is that the undead damage can be incorperated directly into the drain function for higher efficency. The disadvantage of this way is that it needs a change in game play constatns (divine shield is a on/off ability instead of cast), making it harder for noobs to use, but it generates the besst effects and a lot more efficently.

A spell like "Death Pact" also needs improvement, since targeting undead units owned by you mandotorily is a bit lame, making the death knight a rather boring hero. It could easily be changed it a buff that targets an ally/ your own units (race non dependant), that gives the target unit increased power but if its HP fall bellow 30%, it is automaticly killed by the last damamging unit (for credits being correctly given) and the standard deathpact culculations are applied, healing the death knight. To make it ballenced, there is a 1% chance on every major damage dealt to the unit that the unit is instantly killed (giving credits to the damage dealer) and 1/4 of normal healing to be done. This would make it a double edged sword, you could make your units stronger, by quite a bit but then you also make them weaker by lowering thir hp and giving a chance of instant death to them, but if they die in any way, you still get healed. This definatly would make it a more appealing to choose ability.

 

[Chaos Overlord]

For Death Pact, I would make it target a unit, then if the Hero who cast it dies in X seconds, the unit that was targeted by Death Pact dies too. I kinda see it as, "If I die, at least I'm taking you with me." The X seconds could be increased per level and the Effect would wear off after that X. It could not be targeted on Heros or really strong creeps (No suicide missions please). I know it has litle resemblance to the old one, but this is what I would have made it as if I was Blizzard.

 

[Kixer]

Well my idea for death pact is that it is cast on an allied creep but doesn't kill him instantly, instead it buffs him ( no bonuses ) and waits for him to die, when the creep dies the Death Knight recieves health according to the health the creep had at time of casting.

 

[Jacek]

you must be joking... when I cast Death Pact, I WANT my unit to die instantly because I am badly low on hp and I see a bolt from MK coming

 

[Kixer]

Oh ya

Good point! Stupid idea
So thats gonna need to change, how about it kills instantly and deals a % of the lost health to nearby living enemies.
Sorry about that stupid idea, i dont play with undead very oftern and i hate Death Knight so i dont play with him very oftern.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Deathpact is hardly very usefull, thus you do not like deathknight. Only use I ever found was targiting summons for +HP since they are free.

Maybe remake death and decay, so as the damage percentage is reduced to allied undead and increased to neightelves (based on who is the most anti death), making it a more tactiacal move, but that may have ballence problems. Just make the ones you already have then concider more.

 

[Kixer]

I dont understand why blizzard didnt make Death and Decay heal undead, i am however not going to make it heal for this project as it would really unballence the game ( i want these spells to fit in with the melee game and not change it too much ).
I like the idea of increased and decreased damage according to races ( might do that for most race orientated spells? ) but maybe Death and Decay could also neg buff units slightly...
I'll start working on the spells when i can but right now i could use ideas for human abilities? ( not paladin ones though )

 

[Jacek]

Forked Lightning, Death and Decay aren't underpowered; Divine Shield isn't overpowered

 

[Dr Super Good]

I did not say make it heal undead, I said make it deal less damage than to enemy humans.

Try enhancing Bash.
Bash has a chance to stun a unit. The chance depends on the level of bash, the str of the hero and the level of the hero against the level of the foe and their str (if hero). This would make a much better ulternitive to that rigged bash problem many maps suffer where units can get perminatly stuned via giving good tank heroes like the pitlord a lower chance of being stunned than a peasant.