MdlVis Rotation problem

[WhiteDeath]

I have noticed that when I try to edit the animation of some models (Arthas with Frostmourn for example) some of the bones of the model do not rotate properly. For instance I pick a bone select rotation in the XY plane and when I start rotating the bone rotates in some weird manner in random directions. I have already converted all the helpers in to bones.
How can I fix this problem?

 

[UgoUgo]

Im not sure if this is the answer you looking for, but

Have you tried different workplanes? Such as YZ and XZ. Different workplanes rotate in a different manner. You just have to be patient try each of them or combine them all to get to your liking. OR you could just uncheck the workplane and rotate it yourself. But I find it alot harder and messy.

 

[WhiteDeath]

"For instance I pick a bone select rotation in the XY plane and when I start rotating..."
As I said I tried that.

 

[GhostThruster]

-you're using hermite or bezier rotation, which can make it go all funky
-you've attached the vertices incorrectly
-you're mdlvis is bugged
one of those im guessing. it would be easier for everyone if you uploaded a pic or the model itself

 

[WhiteDeath]

-I am using linear rotation always
-The vertexes are attached properly
-I am using the English version MdlVis, could that be the problem.
Here is an example of what I mean:
Open the model with MdlVis
go to its Attack - 1 anim
Select the HandR bone
try rotating it in the XY or ZX planes(the YZ plane works fine) and you will see how as you rotate it, it turns in some weird way, it does turn in the plane you choose but it also turn in other planes.

 

[JesusHipster]

Everything is fine for me. Use mdlvis 1.39

 

[WhiteDeath]

I am using 1.40Eng so I think that mine should be superior.
Did you try the model that I uploaded does it have the weird rotation problem?

 

[JesusHipster]

Shut up and listen to me. I told you to use 1.39, 1.40 is bugged. He is better for a purpose of editing mesh, but animations editor is bugged badly.

 

[WhiteDeath]

Tried 1.39 same thing happened.
Frame 33657 (Attack -1 animation) HandR bone- still does not rotate properly.

Also when I try to rotate by entering in values in the XYZ coordinates - the bone rotates a little when I click on different fields.

 

[JesusHipster]

Then try to clear the zero frame. Still everything works fine for me as it is.

 

[GhostThruster]

definitely a local problem. i went to that exact frame, and rotated handr on xy and zx axes, works fine. delete mdlvis and redownload it maybe.

 

[WhiteDeath]

Ok I erased the old MdlVis, downloaded another one, and now not only does it not rotate properly but the view also does some fast twitching when I try to zoom in/out with the mouse scroll!?!

 

[JesusHipster]

!!!!!

 

[WhiteDeath]

!!!!!

That fixes the twitch in vertex editor mode but in sequence editor it does not.

 

[UgoUgo]

I think I get your problem. Have you attached the HandR bone by yourself with MDLVis? If yes, then you have to detach it and reattach it with other program. ( I used oinker vertex modifier for example)

Also JesusHipster, whats wrong with 1.40? I used it without any problem. I managed to animate my model (particularly my contest submission) with it

Anyway, open your model with the one i edited at the same time with MDLVis, and try to play around with the HandR bone. Hope you can see the difference.

 

[WhiteDeath]

Tried the edited model it is still not rotating properly.

 

[JesusHipster]

Also JesusHipster, whats wrong with 1.40? I used it without any problem. I managed to animate my model (particularly my contest submission) with it

Most users of it have problems with animation editor. Sometimes mdlvis40 just kills your model, sometimes it glitches badly. I use it only for mesh.

 

[WhiteDeath]

So what do you use for animation?

 

[JesusHipster]

So what do you use for animation?

mdlvis 1.39 >_>

 

[Uncle Fester]

I'm also doing some stuff in MDLVIS, but it's not a favorable program for animating. Editing existing anims works, but it's a damn job as it offers only certain rotations (making new anims is easier done in Milkshape, which offers an all direction-movement). As for your problem, the reason might be one of these:

1. movement in WC3 models (.mdx) is usually done by rotating a helper object, which has a bone as a child-node. Maybe MDLVIS can't calculate well. This would be my last guess actually.
2. certain vertices like those from elbows or knees have to be attached to 2 bones: the one from upper leg and from lower legg, for instance. This is a pretty common issue.
3. this is my last but most probable guess: there are ''disturbing'' frames between your newly set movement frames. One single frame between 2 recently set ones messes the anim completely up.

I hope my suggestions are of help for you.

P.S. forgot to mention, coz the MDLVIS-bone animation moves it into 2 directions, is it possible that you want only X-rotation and the program, due to its functions moves it in XY or such?

The last resort i could offer is to do this in Magos. Just be warned this method is pretty timeconsuming and requires some background knowledge. It's not an easy method. That's how it works:

1. open your model in Magos (Model Editor).
2. open Sequence Manager and then open the ''Attack'' anim.
3. you'll see 2 values there, that are important. The values are in the ''Interval'', named ''From'' and ''To''. From is the number of the starting frame and To is the end frame from the entire anim. Just remember them.
4. close the Sequence Manager and open Node Manager
5. there rightclick on the Node (bone or helper) you want to animate and select ''Edit Node''.
6. afterwards, click onto the field ''Rotation''. A new window will pop up that says some things like this:
   0: { 0, 0, 0, 1 }
   InTan: { 0, 0, 0, 1 }
   OutTan: { 0, 0, 0, 1 }
   833: { 0, 0, 0.372583, 0.927999 }
7. just scroll around in it and find the lines were the first number is the one from the starting frame of the attack anim and after the InTan and OutTan line comes (usually) the number of the end frame from attack anim
8. Open in a new Magos-window a model that has a similar skeleton and an attack anim like the one you want for your model. After that copy the InTan/OutTan and frame values from the new model and CnP them into yours. IMPORTANT: don't change the frame numbers of your model!!! Changing the frame number(s) will ruin the entire anim! The ''values'', which are what has to be replaced/changed are the things inside the {}.

This does the trick in most cases, but it's not a convenient method neither a very easy one. It's a pretty bothersome, timeconsuming and laborintensive way, but if it works, the anims are nearly perfect. Additionally, the attack anims of some models have more than just 2 frames for one anim. In this case, the desired values are the starting and end frame + those which are in between the start and end frame.

I hope it's helpful for you, and don't be discouraged from my suggestion. It's not a must-follow way.

 

[WhiteDeath]

Attachment of the vertexes is not an issue they are attached perfectly.
The problem is that I can not rotate the bone itself properly because when I start rotating even tough i have activated lets say the rotate in XY plane( that is to say rotation around the Z axis) the bone, while I rotating, while I am holding down the mouse button and trying to make it to get to the position I want does not rotate in he XY plane only it also rotates slightly in the other planes randomly, that makes it almost impossible to make the bone rotate the right way.
A long time ago I tried animating in Magos and the conclusion was that it is not only a waste of time but really stupid.

How can I use Milkshape? I have it but I remember that it worked with some other files that WC3 cant use.