LOTR TD- Progress Report!

[brad.dude03]

Well, Shados finally got back to me with my map, and its running like a charm, pretty much. There are a few kinks t work out, like the fact that the map is about 2.8 MB's and I haven't even started the races yet, and the fact that the lives trigger absolutely refuses to work regardless of the coding genuis of Shados....other then that, I've got something to ask you all. Since I am no going to begin the final stage of the development (creating the 14 races), I would like some ideas from you guys. What characters would you like to see in the TD? They can be from any of the books pertaining to the LOTR universe, and they don't have to be heroes. They can be any type of lotr unit (such as Uruk Hai Captain etc). If you are going to suggest one, then give me some ideas about some abilities the unit could have (to do with the character, IE Balrog would have a racial spell called Ignite that would immolate all nearby enemy units for x amount of time doing x amount of damage per second etc). All ideas will be thoughtfully considered. Kthnx!

 

[Ben]

can you list up the LOTR units? then i maybe pick some out

 

[brad.dude03]

Well I was just giving some examples above, and there are far to many to list, so reallu unless you've read the books or seen the movies you can't really give suggestions Thanks for the offer though

 

[Bob27]

Tom Bombadil! Hes awsome, he can dance around singing.

 

[brad.dude03]

Tom Bombadil will be a definite and he will be put into the first bonus race, the Maiar, since that's his order, although argueably he could be one of the Valar...anyway, yeah he'll definetly be in there.

 

[DurotarLord]

Tom Bambadil... you've got to be kidding me. As brad.dude03 knows i dont like the LOTR so much, but everyone in it was cool except for the filthy elves, and above all others Tom Bambadil was a filthy, flaming queer.... (though he did get Goldberry and she was supposed to be hot)

 

[brad.dude03]

GLORFINDEL IS A MAN. Tom Bombadil is a GOD, he's married to Goldberry, the River daughter, another God. Did you even read the books???????

 

[DurotarLord]

I didnt mean glorfiendel... i got my names confused. i meant goldberry

 

[brad.dude03]

Right, regardless, Tom Bombadil has unimaginable power, and he can kick the crap out of anything by singing at it. I think it owns whatever being of omnipotence you respect And the elves were 'filthy'? how so, they are incredibly powerful, they arer immortal except if killed in battle, they commad powers humans and other races can't imagine, and they are the most important of the free peoples in the eyes of the gods.

But yeah, this is exactly why they left Tom Bombadil out of the movies. So people who don't understand him wouldn't call him a pansy and be all confused because they have no clue about him. Notice that the ring doesn't affect him? That means that Tom Bombadil= Sauron ownt, if he wanted to, meaning that Tom is probably the most powerful being in all of Middle Earth.

 

[DurotarLord]

I just dont like the lotr elves because they're always singing stuiped songs (like when they were teasing the dwarves The Hobbit, that was retarded), runing from fights (except for the very large battle when the humans needed there help), and just doing retarded stuff really! I went into more detail in that other post. And like you said, they are the most powerful of the races, yet they never united to destroy sauron (with the exception of ten thousand years before the ring was taken by frodo, however they only did that because of the humans). all they did was stay hidden from the rest of the world, and in the end when Middle Earth needed them the most they all left to go to the lands in the West.

Now as for Tom Bombadil, just because someone has unlimited power doesnt make them cool or interesting. In fact i honestly dont like characters that are that powerful in books in general. I mean honestly, why would you want to read about a character so powerful he can destroy sauron and save Middle Earth single handidly, but he doesnt? Plus his singing, of all the powers someone can posses why on earth would it be singing?! It got annoying, how he was always just telling tales and singing songs.

Now the LOTR was OK, but nothing special in my mind. It was obviously well written, but boring! And it sparked the entire genre of fantasy.
But when it comes to fantasy reading i like books like Eragon better (but not Eldest, Eldest wasnt half the book Eragon was).

 

[Shados]

Yeah that lives trigger is weird, it's pretty much the same as mine and mine works like a charm.

Heh guys, Tom Bombadil is most certainly not one of the the Valar, he is like Sauron: an extremely powerful Maiair. Also, Sauron (With the ring) is actually more powerful than him. Also, the ring really can't do much on it's own other than slowly corrupt people, and I imagine most of the Maiar woudl easily be able to resist that coruption.


Oh yeah, and Eldest is way more fucking awesome than Eragon, cool as that was.

-*meow*

 

[brad.dude03]

Eragon, I have found, is almost exactly like Starwars. Seriously, just think about it. Farmer boy living with his Aunt and Uncle, discovers local hermit is more then meets the eye. Aunt and Uncle get killed while he's away...all of the twists and such....seriously it has MANY similarities to Star wars so much to the point that I think that's what he based it off. I mean of course there are things that are different, but man is it amazing some of the similarities...

 

[DurotarLord]

there are many similarities but come on, weve already had the discusion on how hard it is to come up with originality. Oh and heres why i didnt like Eldest nearly as much as Eragon:

1. Eragon became a wuss in Eldest, he spent the entire final battle of Eldest contemplating how wrong it is for him to take another persons life. That is wrong in murder, but on the battlefield there is nothing morally wrong with killing someone. in fact it is required. It doesnt become morally wrong until you start enjoying killing others on the battlefield (well that statement is arguable). He did nothing but whine about killing these guys in what i actually thought was a pretty crap battle.
2. the magic principles that were set up in Eldest were so gay it was retarded. I mean come on, the death words?! What was Paolini thinking when he did that?! What is cool is in Eragon when he killed all those Urguals with Brisinger. but all Eldest was was a battle between magic users. The soldiers did nothing, they just tried to kill the other magic users while their sides sorcerers protected their minds. whenever a sorcerer failed all the soldiers he was protecting instantly died from Eragon's retarded "death words". What i would have liked to have seen was Eragon show up riding Saphira and just go slashing through everyone as she scorched the battlefield with fire and he hacked at enemies from her back and cast fireballs at the enemies.
3. Eragon was not an inteligent fighter in Eldest at all. Based upon the magic system that Paolini made there was no reason why Eragon should have ever become tierd. See, what he did was kill the enemies with "death words" whenever they lost their protection from the sorcerers. What he should have done was absorb the life from the enemies thus replenishing his own energy and strength. then he could have kept on fighting without ever growing weary.
4. About 400 pages of Eldest was nothing but his training. It was basicly just Paolini saying "hey look at me, i have a great vocabulary and am a great writer, read all the crap i want to throw into my book to make it seem epic" (I know that sounds cynical and all, which it is a little i suppose, but come on,k its true!). That book could have been 200 pages shorter had Paolini removed the crap that had no bareing whatsoever on anything. It could have been 300 pages shorter had he removed all the crap that had no bareing on the plot!

Now i did like Eldest, but had it been the first book and not Eragon i dont think id be finishing the series. By now i just want to see Galbatorix show up with a massive army and his new ally (i dont want to say who for those of you that are reading the book but havent finished it) and just rock Eragon, the elves, and the Varden into oblivion.

 

[DurotarLord]

Lol once again we are so far off topic...

 

[brad.dude03]

Indeed, its true, but regardless of how hard originality is to come by, you don't have to borrow THAT much. Eldest (like empire strikes back) ends with the big downer ending after the huge twist. Paolini borrowed so much from Lucas....and I appreciate the story elements, but its just funny how you can spot the 'borrowed' plot ideas and go 'yep, that was straight out of A New hope'.

 

[Shados]

1. Eragon became a wuss in Eldest, he spent the entire final battle of Eldest contemplating how wrong it is for him to take another persons life. That is wrong in murder, but on the battlefield there is nothing morally wrong with killing someone. in fact it is required. It doesnt become morally wrong until you start enjoying killing others on the battlefield (well that statement is arguable). He did nothing but whine about killing these guys in what i actually thought was a pretty crap battle.

The fact that you just claimed there's a situation where taking another sentient beings life is excusable other than in pure, direct defense of yourself or others is ridiculous, even in defense it is still morally wrong to take the life of any sentient being, let alone one of your own kind!

You're beggining to sound like the soldiers America has poured so much propaganda into they don't know good from evil, and that's a dangerous way to be.

2. the magic principles that were set up in Eldest were so gay it was retarded. I mean come on, the death words?! What was Paolini thinking when he did that?! What is cool is in Eragon when he killed all those Urguals with Brisinger. but all Eldest was was a battle between magic users. The soldiers did nothing, they just tried to kill the other magic users while their sides sorcerers protected their minds. whenever a sorcerer failed all the soldiers he was protecting instantly died from Eragon's retarded "death words". What i would have liked to have seen was Eragon show up riding Saphira and just go slashing through everyone as she scorched the battlefield with fire and he hacked at enemies from her back and cast fireballs at the enemies.

The fact that the death words exist in Paolini's world is a given, if they hadn't exsisted people would have said "But why doesn't he just kill them like so, using a very little amount of energy."
Also, what you, or anyone else other than Paolini would have liked to see has no bearing on the story, it's his book.

3. Eragon was not an inteligent fighter in Eldest at all. Based upon the magic system that Paolini made there was no reason why Eragon should have ever become tierd. See, what he did was kill the enemies with "death words" whenever they lost their protection from the sorcerers. What he should have done was absorb the life from the enemies thus replenishing his own energy and strength. then he could have kept on fighting without ever growing weary.

Yes, but his teacher told him to do that only as the very last resort, because not just killing but actually stealing someone else's life is a terrible thing to do, once again you seem slightly lacking in morals.

4. About 400 pages of Eldest was nothing but his training. It was basicly just Paolini saying "hey look at me, i have a great vocabulary and am a great writer, read all the crap i want to throw into my book to make it seem epic" (I know that sounds cynical and all, which it is a little i suppose, but come on,k its true!). That book could have been 200 pages shorter had Paolini removed the crap that had no bareing whatsoever on anything. It could have been 300 pages shorter had he removed all the crap that had no bareing on the plot!

Ahh I see, so you would have rather had him run into battle with little training and be surely slain by his enemies. Or did you want him to say "Eragon went through months of strenous training before the battle" or some-such and just skip the entire thing? If so, then why not just sum up the entire book in a paragraph or two?

-*meow*

 

[brad.dude03]

Shados makes a good- a lot of good points....

 

[Healingpoison]

Eomer and the Rohirrum!

 

[DurotarLord]

In respsone to everything Shados said in order:
1.How did i make that claim AT ALL?! I said it was irratating how durring the entire battle he was doing nothing but talk about it. Every time he killed someone the author had to remind us he felt bad about it! that got really, really old...
2.I know, i thought of that to and i thought of death words before the author wrote about them (since their kind of obvious) but their still retarded man! Its such a panzy way to kill someone.
3.The teacher told him its a last resort to absorb the energy from the surronding areas because it will kill animals and plants. Its a quick way to die and not at all terrible, he could have absorbed it instantly (its not painful, over the one second youd just feel weaker), but he didnt. By the same note, if getting your life zapped from you almost instantly is a terrible way to die then why isnt getting a section of your brain dislocated considered a bad way to die?
4.Shados, thats just you arguing for arguements sake and you know it. You and i both know thats not what i meant. What i meant was he could have summed up the training in 200-300 pages instead of 400... He didnt need to have an entire chapter about the "World of Ants".

Shados dude, im just posting an opinion come on, quit flaming me for it.

 

[Shados]

In respsone to everything Shados said in order:
1.How did i make that claim AT ALL?! I said it was irratating how durring the entire battle he was doing nothing but talk about it. Every time he killed someone the author had to remind us he felt bad about it! that got really, really old...

"but on the battlefield there is nothing morally wrong with killing someone"

2.I know, i thought of that to and i thought of death words before the author wrote about them (since their kind of obvious) but their still retarded man! Its such a panzy way to kill someone.

I suppose that's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but you could've chosen better words.

3.The teacher told him its a last resort to absorb the energy from the surronding areas because it will kill animals and plants. Its a quick way to die and not at all terrible, he could have absorbed it instantly (its not painful, over the one second youd just feel weaker), but he didnt. By the same note, if getting your life zapped from you almost instantly is a terrible way to die then why isnt getting a section of your brain dislocated considered a bad way to die?

You really do have no morals, killing helpless animals and plants, not to mention the humans around you, let alone draining their life just so you could keep fighting your war is ridiculous! It DOES NOT MATTER if it is quick and painless, and how can we possibly know if it is or isn't? I'd imagine the feeling of my lifeforce being drained out of me would be terrible.

And having a section of your brain dislocated IS a bad way to die!

4.Shados, thats just you arguing for arguements sake and you know it. You and i both know thats not what i meant. What i meant was he could have summed up the training in 200-300 pages instead of 400... He didnt need to have an entire chapter about the "World of Ants".

No, it isn't, you're complaining about an integral part of the book just becauseyou would've liked more action. If it isn't your kind of book then you could've just stopped reading.

Shados dude, im just posting an opinion come on, quit flaming me for it.

This isn't flaming.

THIS is flaming:
"Oh you fucking noob go to take your stupid ideas and shove them up your ass."

Or something along those lines, I'm not flaming, I'm debating/argueing.

-*meow*

 

[DurotarLord]

1. so ud never be a soldier i suppose. ok thats ur opinion. i think that if your country sends you to fight and die in a war you can take another humans life as long as it was the life you were sent to take.
2. ok cool
3. Hes killing them anyways. im saying if he does kill them he should do it so he has the advantage. getting the juice sucked out of you is a sucky way to die, but we dont know its painful. in the book he made it seem instantanious, so why should we have no problems with him dislocating your brain, which we both agree is a terrible way to die, and have no problem wiht him hacking a person in half, which i think we can both agree is a terrible way to die, but have a problem with him replenishing his own energy with the energy of others, a terrible way to die but not as bad as getting hacked in half (which he did to people in the book) and either as bad or maybe just a little, but not much, worse than dislocating your brain. and dont say i dont have morals, i do. i just think about situations logically. if eragon sucked the life essence out of them he would have won the battle easily. had he done wat he did with the death words he lost to Murtaugh. now i assume in the end hes going to defeate Galbatorix because its a book, but in real life he would have possibly just handed the Varden to Galbatorix on a silver platter because he didnt have what it took to do what would have won the battle.
4. i wasnt complaining. i said i didnt like eldest as much as eragon. you came on and said that i was wrong. so i just pointed out why i didnt like it, that was all. then you came on again and turned it into yet another arguement.
5. ok, agreed

 

[brad.dude03]

Hi, we're supposed to be discussing my wonderful Lord of the Rings map here, folks. Kthnx!

 

[brad.dude03]

Alrighty, so I've reached a dilema. My map is obviously going to be way to big withthe way I have it planned out with the custom icons, sounds, skins, models, etc. So I need to decide what I want to keep, or if there is anyway that I can compress it all to make it fit onto battle.net....any ideas?

 

[DurotarLord]

Sounds are typically unimportant (many players even play with the mute on), so you can get rid of most of the custom sounds, if not all. Dont use any custom music.
Custom icons i try and avoid whenever possible because they tend to really start to add up and dont add much to the game. But they are nice, so i just would use a few select ones.
As for custom models, youd be amazed at what you can do with regular models to make em look LotRish. Say you wanted to make a balrog, you take a doom guard, tint him so hes almost completely black and add fire attachments all over his body. If i was you id stick to using as many warcraft III models as i can whenever possible, even if it makes the game not look as cool. Remember, with tower defense maps it is without question gameplay over graphics.
Now skins, the great thing about skins is they add so much to a map without adding much file size. If i was you, id cut back on everything else just so i can load up on skins.

Id suggest not using ANY custom icons, little or no custom sounds (because they take up more room than anything), and then id use as many custom models and skins as i can fit in the map, but if a model is to big i wouldnt use it.

 

[Shados]

Actually, custom sounds can add quite alot to a map, and the reason they've mostly been seen as unimportant is that no one uses them properly. Sounds can be used to create/enhance atomsphere, and that alone is very useful. I rather liked the music in the TD (Also, there are various methods for drastically lowering the filesize of sounds, with minimum loss of quality).

-*meow*

 

[brad.dude03]

Shados, if you could PM me on some of these methods, would be great And what you heard was my tester music, basically the music I wanted to listen to whilst testing the game, or just playing it in WE while creating the game. Twas Living Things- Bom Bom Bom. Good song.

 

[DurotarLord]

Actually, i think that custom sounds are typically unimportant. Music is good, but that tends to add WAY to much size to a map. What is good is when someone properly utilizes the sounds that are already in the world editor and uses them. Then its impressive without adding filesize (unless of course the map is supposed to be really freaky or something, in those cases custom sound is needed).