Looking for map making partner(s) or a project

[crazy_spray]

I'm a computer science student who has always enjoyed creating smaller casual map projects over a few days and then playing them with friends. If you reckon that sounds like fun, then lets get together and make some maps.

Alternatively, if you have a really good pitch I'd be delighted to work with you on a larger project, but in this case, understand that my terrain skills are functional at best. However, I can code whatever you want and I have a relatively good grasp of proper game design.

If this interests you, hit me up.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Do you want to work on a custom JASS syntax interpreter? I'm a noob at C but getting better every day.

There are flaws in current publicly acclaimed syntax, vJASS, you can see what it offers here: JassHelper 0.A.0.0

Namely implementation of extends is garbage, and the end<block> occupies one line.

You can see my pathetic effort of making it better here. It adds the end<block> so JassHelper, vJASS's interpreter, can handle the written code.


On the map side, maybe something that constantly occupies your whole attention. Tower defenses are weak on this regard. In the other end we have DotA (which sparked its own genre), you constantly need to focus on the game.

The element of harvesting resources intrigues me. Something that demonstrates evolution maybe? Like Jurassic Park, but again this map lacks in what I said above. Also the PvP aspect is important to me, maybe having it asymmetrical makes it fun as well.


You didn't really tell what kind of maps are you interested in making. Just "larger project", but there's a plethora of genres, I doubt your willing to take them all on lol..

 

[crazy_spray]

There are a bunch of JASS interpreters aren't there? That would be an interesting project though. Do you know of any projects for the editor itself that need help?

I've experimented before with making evolution a gameplay element in wc3, but it's never very satisfying in my experience as to make it more complete would require some pretty intense complexity. Maybe the game could give you a random unit, then in a small battle arena you vs another player. All the winning units 'mate' with each other and generate a new set of units that get divvied up between everyone and the process repeats. I can envision a way to make randomly generated spells by simply making a bunch of basic spell mechanics that get randomly put into a stack and called one after another. But that's sounding a bit ambitious hahah.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Do you know of any projects for the editor itself that need help?

I doubt there's any in need of help at the moment. If you want to develop an application for JNGP make a submission to the tools section and contact moyack to ask if he'd be interested in adding it to JNGP.

There are a bunch of JASS interpreters aren't there?

Yes. Lot are abandoned or heavily in development.

I've experimented before with making evolution a gameplay element in wc3, but it's never very satisfying in my experience as to make it more complete would require some pretty intense complexity. Maybe the game could give you a random unit, then in a small battle arena you vs another player. All the winning units 'mate' with each other and generate a new set of units that get divvied up between everyone and the process repeats. I can envision a way to make randomly generated spells by simply making a bunch of basic spell mechanics that get randomly put into a stack and called one after another. But that's sounding a bit ambitious hahah.

I like this idea, but I'd try to emphasize PvP element more (for example cut down on randomness) and try to include macro scale gameplay. With the power of these two resources:
[vJASS] - Sync (Game Cache)
JASS/File IO.w3x at master · nestharus/JASS · GitHub
You can have progress throughout game sessions. Obvious usage is for saving experience/credit points, but there's much more you could use these for
Also I would like it to be team oriented in one way or another. One reason for DotA's/LoL's success is that they're 5v5, not nearly as agonizing as Starcraft II for example, where the promoted/focused game mode is 1v1 (for example whole game is balanced around that mode and tournament money goes into 1v1).

As to elaborate, I know what you described is very clear demonstration of evolution, but I'm questioning the longevity of such map? There's lots of maps that have probably thousands of hours poured into them but fall short in actual gameplay.

 

[crazy_spray]

I doubt there's any in need of help at the moment. If you want to develop an application for JNGP make a submission to the tools section and contact moyack to ask if he'd be interested in adding it to JNGP.

Do you know of any features the JNGP could do with?

I like this idea, but I'd try to emphasize PvP element more (for example cut down on randomness) and try to include macro scale gameplay. With the power of these two resources:
[vJASS] - Sync (Game Cache)
JASS/File IO.w3x at master · nestharus/JASS · GitHub
You can have progress throughout game sessions. Obvious usage is for saving experience/credit points, but there's much more you could use these for
Also I would like it to be team oriented in one way or another. One reason for DotA's/LoL's success is that they're 5v5, not nearly as agonizing as Starcraft II for example, where the promoted/focused game mode is 1v1 (for example whole game is balanced around that mode and tournament money goes into 1v1).

As to elaborate, I know what you described is very clear demonstration of evolution, but I'm questioning the longevity of such map? There's lots of maps that have probably thousands of hours poured into them but fall short in actual gameplay.

Those resources would allow for some pretty creative design. What kind of macro gameplay are you thinking? However, at this point of it's life cycle, I think the game is too old to really bother making maps for anyone but for the enjoyment of the process and for yourself; logically you'd make maps with a smaller scope but with more complete but experimental and limited gameplay elements.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Do you know of any features the JNGP could do with?

The coding inside the editor is rubbish and will always be. Making coding outside the editor more seamless is one of the best quality of life upgrades you could do for vJASSers. Off the top of my head:

• Catch trigger editor launch event and open custom IDE instead
• Remove the need of //! import (reference)
• Eclipse plugin for vJASS
• Catch save event (see wehack.lua in JNGP) and apply VCS solution
• Remove the need of //! zinc (reference)

Also object editing is bad at the moment, some suggestions:

• External object data viewer/editor, able to detect running WE and inject objects into WE. Another way to achieve this is by inserting it into queue (folder) and injecting the objects upon WE save. You need this documentation to manipulate object files, this API to manipulate map archive.
• Better field value probing, for example "Summon Water Elemental" probes summon's HP with <hwat,realHP>, make it so that you could use unit name as the key as well: <"Water Elemental (Level 1)",realHP>. Obvious advantage in this is readability and the fact that raw id's change e.g. when importing into another map.
• Continue this.

Also, ask any terrainer, they'd make love to you if you made external terrain editor. But this is such a gargantuan project it'd be doomed to get abandoned.

(...) I think the game is too old to really bother making maps for anyone but for the enjoyment of the process and for yourself (...)

Heh, you have mature view on WC3's current state. All I can say is that as long as hive exists, there's at least little sense in modding for WC3.

 

[crazy_spray]

What are the main limitations of the current terrain editor?

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Like you, I'm no expert in terraining, I left VM for Keiji and Heinvers, you can inspect their responses (implying they eventually respond).

If I'm to speculate, compare Galaxy Editor and WE. I'd do that for you if my SC2 wasn't in an ancient patch.

It's at least slow and relies on ancient graphics API, you can replicate the slow-down by zooming far away and increasing render distance with Ctrl+scroll. Also there's little interaction between components, for example you can't find trigger references to an unit from the terrain editor or get to the respective object editor entry.

So, it's ancient. I would like to tell you about the functionality it lacks but I really don't know about that, we really rely on terrainers' input on this regard.

 

[crazy_spray]

Making a new way to render and save the game maps sounds like an insanely large task haha, probably won't have enough time to tackle that one. Injecting object data doesn't sound impossible though, could give that a go.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Isn't it way past midnight there

Yes I believe that for a computer science student manipulating WC3 object files would be actually useful. To conclude that "yes, that actually makes sense" (referring to the documentation I linked), use hex editor to inspect some exported object files.

If you give up on actually doing the manipulation yourself, you can use ObjectMerger.exe (there is good manual included) inside JNGP, and have your application work as a front-end.

I thought the scripting environment enhancing was hands down the most interesting field, but oh well...

By the way, Keiji responded to my question on the terrain editor:

If anything it would have to be the ability to flip doodads in any direction without having to use the object editor
and numbers. The ability to just use some keys to tilt doodads.

 

[crazy_spray]

Yeah it's getting a bit late here haha.

I feel like to work on the scripting environment I would need a deeper understanding of the whole current situation to be able to make an intelligent and useful attempt.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

I feel like to work on the scripting environment I would need a deeper understanding of the whole current situation to be able to make an intelligent and useful attempt.

Getting rid of //! zinc ... //! endzinc is as easy detecting when a block follows bracket ruling, just add those lines to the beginning and end of said blocks.

Getting rid of //! import takes enumerating through the project's directory and sub-directories, picking up files with .j extension and injecting them into a project by placing //! import "L:\absolute\path\filename.j" into the script before JassHelper compiles it.

Others could be bothersome.