[General] Link multiple maps that are not a campaign

[Kronomage]

Hey guys!

I want to start a little side project, a mini-campaign of sorts, but I have a problem. Clearly creating a custom campaign is not an option since I wouldn't be able to play it normally, so I though separating chapters in the way The Founding of Durotar does with it's transitions and linked maps would serve. I've been investigating for a few hours, started trying the Game Cache thing but came to realize when trying to set the next level that I need it to be a campaign.

So, my question is: Is there a way to make a Rexxar-like 'campaign' with a bunch of singular maps? Or does it have to be considered a campaign by the WE?
If it is possible, any guidance would be most welcome. If only the campaign route is achievable, I'd like suggestions on how to do it, or if I should scrap the idea and fit everything into a singular map.

Whatever is the answer, guidance and tips are very appreciated!

 

[Harold Grey]

I'm not certain if this will answer the right question, but even if maps are part of a campaign, you should be able to also put the maps in the normal game folders to play individual maps.
For the other path, if you do go with setting it up as a campaign, I understand you should be able to set all the maps to be visible/selectable to play by default. This is found in the campaign editor.

You shouldn't have to use the Game Cache stuff too much, unless you want items and stats to carry over (as far as I understand). While I haven't done a lot with the campaign editor myself previously, I do believe that there aren't really any negatives to setting something up as a campaign, so I would say go for it!

Of course, more details about your project would allow us to get a better idea of what would be most ideal for you. I have seen plenty of games here on hive that are a somewhat extended RPG made into a single map.

 

[Kronomage]

I didn't go into much detail because I tend to beat around the bush too much and get lost in my thoughts, so it was very likely the main question would get lost in it and the rules/advice to posting questions indicate we should try to be concise. But of course I'm willing to discuss it, originally I explained everything but then deleted it and tried to be concise.

Anyways, the project: I want to make a little story. Essentially I have the idea for a campaign, but want to add a role-playing factor to it, so instead of playing as one of the characters that I designed, I want to let people make their choices and explore on their own, within the normal limits the plot would set. This comes with a couple of problems, which depend on the route I go.

If I choose to make a single map for everything, triggering it gets easier and I also don't have to worry about ensuring all maps have all items/spells/etc. The problem here is mostly space. I don't have the full story, only it's general idea and a beginning, so I don't know if everything would fit. Another big problem is shaping the world according to events. I don't know if the world can be physically changed via triggers, and if so, don't know how to do it (I did search but nothing). I think I could manage to create effects and remove/add things I know will be there if I tinkered around, but what if I need to flood a village? Can that be done?

If I choose multiple maps, problems invert. I have space, and can create a new, altered version of an old map to set changes. Triggering becomes more difficult, but I think I could manage. I guess I should have mentioned I'm in Reforged, latest patch, which means I have no custom campaigns, making playing it just a straight hell, because people would need a guide to calculate which map is for them based on their choices since they have to look for individual maps. That's why I thought linking maps was the solution, since on victory I could force the next map, but for what I read that only works in campaigns.

I know I might be over-complicating myself by wanting to create a world that is responsive to the player and even other NPCs, but that is one of the things that made me fall in love with RPGs, and it is very important to me.

That's the problem in itself. Now, you asked for info on the project but I really don't know if you also mean details on story/characters/setting, you know, a roadmap of sorts, so I'll leave those in this spoiler so you can ignore it if you don't want/need that info.

Spoiler

So, first, setting.

Spoiler

The story takes place in an altered version of World of Warcraft. Everything up to the events leading to Battle for Azeroth are almost the same, with a few quality of life adjustments (in my eyes ) like Jaina and Sylvanas actually being present in the fight against Arthas atop Icecrown, Garrosh being consistent as a character (indirectly as he is only mentioned, if that), Maiev being the one to say the last goodbye to Illidan instead of Velen, as that was the original plan, and setting an actual canon on things like the War of the Ancients that are all over the place.

From BfA on, changes, although not many, are a tad more meaningful. Sylvanas does start the War of Thorns and does burn Teldrassil, but only after a would-be peaceful effort between Alliance and Horde to gather Azerite and mend the world resulted in a mass slaughtering between both forces, because Sargeras' sword disturbed (more like stabbed and almost one-shotted) C'thun (who was defeated, not killed), which caused him to indirectly drive the forces mad (his blood tainted the land and the Azerite) and cause them to slaughter themselves. Of course, they don't know this and both sides thought the other broke the peace, Sylvanas was simply the first to react. There are more changes in BfA and everything leading up to Shadowlands is changed, along with Shadowlands itself being completely ignored, save for Tyrande killing Nathanos but in the moment the story begins this hasn't happened. I can go into more detail if necessary.

As for what the story will convey, I only have the start as I said.

Sylvanas' defeat on the assault at Orgrimmar, that did have the Mak'Gora and Sylvanas did win but not because of Zovaal purple smoke, still underwent a military confrontation and ended up in her and her surviving loyalists managing to escape. After N'zoths confrontation, that goes VERY differently too, the two factions begin to work on the mistrust between them, as the new council of the Horde advocates for peace and Anduin wants the same. They decide to work together into setting a new, mixed settlement in uncharted lands recently discovered. The settlement is supposed to be what Dalaran once was, a beacon of hope that shows that the Alliance and the Horde can coexist peacefully, and a neutral ground to discuss future endeavors. Of course they'll be dealing with healing Azeroth and all that too, and seeds of chaos are growing in the factions.

The character (you) is part of the expeditionary force tasked with helping with this.

All this would be explained in a little tutorial before playing, that would essentially serve to set the setting (captain redundancy here) and allow you to 'create' your character. You know, race, gender, class, pronouns (if I can be bothered to put it in, sorry, am lazy), and those things. Which is another reason I need to remember people's decisions, because I need to know how I am supposed to even talk to them.

Anyways, talked too much already, sorry. I am looking for opinions or ideas, so please feel free to if you want.

 

[Harold Grey]

I didn't go into much detail because I tend to beat around the bush too much and get lost in my thoughts, so it was very likely the main question would get lost in it and the rules/advice to posting questions indicate we should try to be concise. But of course I'm willing to discuss it, originally I explained everything but then deleted it and tried to be concise.

It is always good to start off concise, so no worries!

I didn't go into your spoiler button, but I think you have explained well for me to respond as far as I am personally knowledgeable.
First of all, I do not have Reforged, and didn't know that they removed custom campaigns cry. From everything you have explained, if custom campaigns were still a thing, I would say that is exactly what you are looking for. Sure, it would take some time to get down understanding of cache loading the user's character, but once you have learned how to cache things and load stuff in the next map accordingly, things should go smoothly. And the campaign editor would be your go-to tool, providing all you need for making sure every map has the custom objects you need, such as items and units, as well as linking the maps together, as you have noted.

Not having a campaign editor available, I would say the best way would be to find a way to make the maps more guaranteed linear, although I perceive how this would be a great hamper on the flexibility for your rpg story creativity . Perhaps there are ways to allow differences in the maps according to decisions while still keeping the maps linear..? In any case, this takes it to about the end of my capacity to provide knowledgeable suggestions.

Anyone else have any advice or helpful information?

[Edit: By the way, having now read the details about your story in the spoiler button, I love it, and would be excited to see what you end up making! I imagine it will be a lot of work, but you have it well thought out so far it seems.]

 

[OutsiderXE]

Maybe they changed stuff, but from what I know a campaign format (w3n) is not necessary for map to map loading. Just using the game cache and putting maps in the same folder should be enough.

 

[Kronomage]

Maybe they changed stuff, but from what I know a campaign format (w3n) is not necessary for map to map loading. Just using the game cache and putting maps in the same folder should be enough.

I tried but after putting the Game - Set Next Level, the game either goes back to main menu or freezes in a black screen. And all tutorials that try to use it do so as a custom campaign.

Not having a campaign editor available, I would say the best way would be to find a way to make the maps more guaranteed linear, although I perceive how this would be a great hamper on the flexibility for your rpg story creativity . Perhaps there are ways to allow differences in the maps according to decisions while still keeping the maps linear..? In any case, this takes it to about the end of my capacity to provide knowledgeable suggestions.

After much thought and beating my head on the wall, I came to the conclusion this obstacle is simply too high to escalate and I should simply do the smart thing and go around it. So I will take your advice and provide more linear chapter intermissions, but adding more flexibility during the chapter itself. Also, remember the guide they would need to play? Well, people are smarter than I give them credit for. I will simply do a calculation at the end of every chapter and tell them which map to look for.

Thank you guys for helping me out!

By the way, having now read the details about your story in the spoiler button, I love it, and would be excited to see what you end up making! I imagine it will be a lot of work, but you have it well thought out so far it seems.

Thank you! I feel so flattered! It will be a lot of work for sure, maybe more than I first envisioned, but I will begin with small steps, something that is sometimes hard for me. The story is still a WIP but I'm glad you like it in it's rough shape! As I said, I'm in the process of brainstorming the rest so I'm all ears.

 

[OutsiderXE]

Maybe check out Re-Reforged if that isn't locked.