Laptop buzing advice

[Bribe]

Hey everyone.

I am back after the aftermath of Vista's deprecation on WarCraft 3, as well as the advancement of DirectX to spite supporting the old API. That and Mac OS capability to run the World Editor was retired a few years back. These steps have left my Netbook (Atom N450) completely dead to me, my Acer (running Vista) unable to run WarCraft 3 (but still able to run the World Editor) and my Mac able to run WarCraft 3.

My current setup when I'm working on WarCraft 3 coding is that I need to use two laptops- my Acer and my Mac. My Acer's WiFi networking doesn't work, so I have my Mac configured to output Internet over Ethernet, which allows me to use World Editor on my Acer, save the compiled map to the Mac over Ethernet, then test it on the Mac.

It's inefficient, so say the least, and the dependency on each other just makes me think of two half-dead people trying to keep each other alive through blood transfusion. It's disappointing, and not the way it should be done.

Rant over; back to the subject: I'm looking for a new laptop. I'm in Germany. These are the criteria I'm looking for in a new laptop:

• Must run Windows 10
• Must have at least 4GB RAM
• Must have at least 64GB storage (eMMC or SSD - no mechanical HDD)
• No optical drive (noisy and adds weight)
• 1080p would be best for 14-inch or greater screen size
  
• 10-keypad would be nice

What I'm not sure on is the CPU. I've looked into the Atom x5 quad-core and the Pentium quad-core found in those low-end ultrabooks. I can't figure out if those devices are able to push the frames past 30 on High settings for WarCraft 3. The information out there is scarce, given that it's an old game and the computer hardware is so new.

I'm buying this computer for two main purposes:

1. To comfortably write a book (I will be taking this on the train and writing in it late at night, hence the desired light weight and silent operation)
2. To get back into WarCraft 3 modding.

The budget I'm looking for is, honestly, as cheap as possible. The Atom-book I've found is 200 euros, but it takes another 50-70 to spring for a Pentium. The issue is, I have no idea if either of these machines will actually cut it. It costs SIGNIFICANTLY more for an i3 or a Ryzen machine.

I've been looking for weeks, trying to find a solution. I would hate to buy a NEW computer and be disappointed in its performance, but at the same time I would hate to spend a ton of money on something which isn't there to run bleeding-edge games but rather just to run our nice 17 year old WarCraft 3 with 30-60FPS on highest settings.

 

[Chaosy]

Must be a laptop I take it?

Otherwise just buy the individual parts and not a computer as a whole.

 

[Bribe]

Must be a laptop I take it?

Otherwise just buy the individual parts and not a computer as a whole.

I've got a desktop in the basement which can't go anywhere in our house yet as a desk wouldn't fit anywhere due to how much space the kids' stuff consumes

Yeah, it does need to be a laptop. I'm probably just going to get the cheapest crap and suffer whatever performance loss it comes with.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Must be a laptop I take it?

To comfortably write a book (I will be taking this on the train and writing in it late at night, hence the desired light weight and silent operation)

Yeh he is so going to lug a desktop and display around with him on the train. Some trains do not have power outlets so lets add another 100kg 90db generator to that!

That said a tablet might also work, but it would need an external keyboard of sorts. They also might be too costly if they can run Windows 10.

What I'm not sure on is the CPU. I've looked into the Atom x5 quad-core and the Pentium quad-core found in those low-end ultrabooks. I can't figure out if those devices are able to push the frames past 30 on High settings for WarCraft 3. The information out there is scarce, given that it's an old game and the computer hardware is so new.

If you can list what the specific CPU options are I might be able to give an estimate as to the performance.

 

[Bribe]

Yeh he is so going to lug a desktop and display around with him on the train. Some trains do not have power outlets so lets add another 100kg 90db generator to that!

That said a tablet might also work, but it would need an external keyboard of sorts. They also might be too costly if they can run Windows 10.
If you can list what the specific CPU options are I might be able to give an estimate as to the performance.

Right now I feel this one would be in my near future: https://www.notebooksbilliger.de/lenovo+miix+320+10icr

At 180euro, being a tablet/notebook hybrid, probably the best deal I can hope for. It's an Atom Z8350 w/ Cherry Trail gfx and 4GB RAM.

 

[Chaosy]

Yeh he is so going to lug a desktop and display around with him on the train. Some trains do not have power outlets so lets add another 100kg 90db generator to that!

Actually! he could use a PC at home and simply carry his current laptop with him and through remote connection (4g) he could could use it on the train.

Seriously though,I only read the post until the first list so did not see the second list of requirements.

_________

Lenovo Thinkpad (t-series) is a pretty solid option, my collage bought one for each student 5~ years ago and mine still functions fine, being able to play WoW, Hearthstone, LoL etc. At the time it could run some pretty decent games such as the most recent Battlefield (30~ FPS if I recall correctly)
Meaning, it could also run wc3.
Perhaps a bit overkill for his needs, but buying the bare minimum seems a bit risky to me, might be better to get some wigggle room if the minimum requirements get raised again.
Could get it second hand or something to keep the price down though.

 

[Dr Super Good]

At 180euro, being a tablet/notebook hybrid, probably the best deal I can hope for. It's an Atom Z8350 w/ Cherry Trail gfx and 4GB RAM.

According to Intel that CPU supports a maximum of 2GB memory which is very strange. Either there is some motherboard trickery being used to raise the limit (which some people have reported is possible, eg 64GB on 32GB max processor) or there is 2GB of memory that cannot be used which would make no sense.

As long as the drivers are reasonable the processor should run Warcraft III. Warcraft III was designed for very old and slow processors and graphic cards so even that should be able to do something with it. People have even reported running World of Warcraft and LoL to some extent. The card should easily support the required D3D9 build to run Warcraft III as it supports features from up to D3D11.1 however if it actually does so or does so well is another question that is hard to answer.

 

[Bribe]

According to Intel that CPU supports a maximum of 2GB memory which is very strange. Either there is some motherboard trickery being used to raise the limit (which some people have reported is possible, eg 64GB on 32GB max processor) or there is 2GB of memory that cannot be used which would make no sense.

As long as the drivers are reasonable the processor should run Warcraft III. Warcraft III was designed for very old and slow processors and graphic cards so even that should be able to do something with it. People have even reported running World of Warcraft and LoL to some extent. The card should easily support the required D3D9 build to run Warcraft III as it supports features from up to D3D11.1 however if it actually does so or does so well is another question that is hard to answer.

Thanks; I was at the mall today and had a look at the store, the extra 2GB of RAM is certainly used by the system. Not sure why Intel only claims to support 2.

The CPU is remarkably better than my N450 ever was. Even if there were no imorovements to the IPC (which there were), having the extra 3 cores means I can dedicate a full core to the game. Previously, my CPU was running at 100% pretty much all the time (svchost process running amok, probably due to installing an update because I rarely turn on the laptop).

 

[Dr Super Good]

Not sure why Intel only claims to support 2.

I suspect it has to do with the DIM packages they intend to use with their own motherboard designs. From what I briefly read the motherboard actually defines how much memory can be used in the form of communication timings.

The CPU is remarkably better than my N450 ever was. Even if there were no imorovements to the IPC (which there were), having the extra 3 cores means I can dedicate a full core to the game. Previously, my CPU was running at 100% pretty much all the time (svchost process running amok, probably due to installing an update because I rarely turn on the laptop).

Ironically there are processors for only $10 or so more (US company so that is recommended retail) that perform 20-30% better in both CPU clock speed and graphics for the same power. However they require dedicated low power memory which would likely add a lot to the cost. The model you listed was the fastest one can get with standard memory using low power variants (not as low power as dedicated low power memory).

 

[Bribe]

I suspect it has to do with the DIM packages they intend to use with their own motherboard designs. From what I briefly read the motherboard actually defines how much memory can be used in the form of communication timings.
Ironically there are processors for only $10 or so more (US company so that is recommended retail) that perform 20-30% better in both CPU clock speed and graphics for the same power. However they require dedicated low power memory which would likely add a lot to the cost. The model you listed was the fastest one can get with standard memory using low power variants (not as low power as dedicated low power memory).

That's interesting. It just says LPDDR3. Is there another spec or CPU I should be looking out for (as I can't sort any of the sites I've found by RAM type - only amount)?

 

[Dr Super Good]

It just says LPDDR3

The model you listed should have DDR3L? According to Wikipedia and Intel that is the only sort of memory supported by the Atom x5 Z8350... LPDDR3 is considerably more expensive and a different sort of memory entirely. The 8350 is the fastest of the series that still supports DDR3L, with all more powerful CPUs in that series having to use LPDDR3.

To put it in perspective the 8350 is listed at $21 yet a 8750 is listed at $37 ($16 more) and is considerably more powerful, especially GPU wise. The only drawback is that the 8750 requires LPDDR3 unlike the 8350 which can use the cheaper DDR3L. So moving to such a model would likely add a lot more than $16 localized to the cost.

 

[Bribe]

The model you listed should have DDR3L? According to Wikipedia and Intel that is the only sort of memory supported by the Atom x5 Z8350... LPDDR3 is considerably more expensive and a different sort of memory entirely. The 8350 is the fastest of the series that still supports DDR3L, with all more powerful CPUs in that series having to use LPDDR3.

To put it in perspective the 8350 is listed at $21 yet a 8750 is listed at $37 ($16 more) and is considerably more powerful, especially GPU wise. The only drawback is that the 8750 requires LPDDR3 unlike the 8350 which can use the cheaper DDR3L. So moving to such a model would likely add a lot more than $16 localized to the cost.

Maybe the same way they got the RAM to 4GB - motherboard tricks. The tech spec page lists: Arbeitsspeicher: 4 GB LPDDR3 1600 ONBOARD

 

[Dr Super Good]

Maybe the same way they got the RAM to 4GB - motherboard tricks. The tech spec page lists: Arbeitsspeicher: 4 GB LPDDR3 1600 ONBOARD

Yes however tech specs can lie...

It is the same as the mythical DDR5 that some graphic cards used back in 2008 odd (they meant GDDR5 but marketing people are too stupid to know the difference).

 

[Bribe]

Yes however tech specs can lie...

It is the same as the mythical DDR5 that some graphic cards used back in 2008 odd (they meant GDDR5 but marketing people are too stupid to know the difference).

According to this review you are correct. It uses 4GB DDR3L.

 

[pyf]

Right now I feel this one would be in my near future: https://www.notebooksbilliger.de/lenovo+miix+320+10icr

At 180euro, being a tablet/notebook hybrid, probably the best deal I can hope for. It's an Atom Z8350 w/ Cherry Trail gfx and 4GB RAM.

If you have nothing against refurbished high-tech products, then maybe you could find something suitable here for your present and future needs?
Back Market - Technik in grün. Und in günstig.

4 GB RAM for Windows 10 may imho not be optimal. Please be sure to check that you can add more (up to 12 GB would be perfect).

Maybe you will want to prefer SSD storage over eMMC. Also, do not forget that nowadays, modern AAA HD remasters of classic games from the late 1990s/early 2000s tend to be *huge* (like, 17 GB of HDD space for AoE: Definitive Edition). Just saying.

For the GPU, I would suggest that you avoid anything equipped with an Intel one.
Again, you may refer to the lists of officially supported video cards for some games by Blizzard, for reference.

In case you need to seriously write a book on any distraction-free computer, then maybe you will want to take your cue from this guy (hey, WordStar was so great back then, or so I was told).

---

The 100% CPU usage because of one of the svchost process could probably be diagnosed with something like Process Explorer (hover your mouse on any svchost process, to see what it is really running).

 

[Bribe]

If you have nothing against refurbished high-tech products, then maybe you could find something suitable here for your present and future needs?
Back Market - Technik in grün. Und in günstig.

4 GB RAM for Windows 10 may imho not be optimal. Please be sure to check that you can add more (up to 12 GB would be perfect).

Maybe you will want to prefer SSD storage over eMMC. Also, do not forget that nowadays, modern AAA HD remasters of classic games from the late 1990s/early 2000s tend to be *huge* (like, 17 GB of HDD space for AoE: Definitive Edition). Just saying.

For the GPU, I would suggest that you avoid anything equipped with an Intel one.
Again, you may refer to the lists of officially supported video cards for some games by Blizzard, for reference.

In case you need to seriously write a book on any distraction-free computer, then maybe you will want to take your cue from this guy (hey, WordStar was so great back then, or so I was told).

---

The 100% CPU usage because of one of the svchost process could probably be diagnosed with something like Process Explorer (hover your mouse on any svchost process, to see what it is really running).

I'll be sure to check out that link and will keep Process Explorer in mind for the future.

The 4GB of RAM is certainly not future proof, but they are now-sufficient. In the future, I'll have my desktop back from the basement. The desktop runs Windows 8 perpetually under 4GB even while gaming on much heavier games than Warcraft. And I have 16 gigs in there (wastefully).

My MacBook Pro has an i7 and 8 gigs, with HD 4000 graphics. If I really want to get into it, I'll just hop over there.

So I think overall, I was hoping to get a recommendation from an angle I haven't thought of, or didn't want to get ripped off in case someone knew of a better deal for the price. For my needs, the Miix 320 with 4 RAM and 64 eMMC is the lowest common denominator. Ill get it sometime in the next weeks and will report back with my experience.

 

[Dr Super Good]

4 GB RAM for Windows 10 may imho not be optimal. Please be sure to check that you can add more (up to 12 GB would be perfect).

4GB is enough. Windows 10 OS uses about 1GB so 3GB free for Warcraft III is fine.

Maybe you will want to prefer SSD storage over eMMC. Also, do not forget that nowadays, modern AAA HD remasters of classic games from the late 1990s/early 2000s tend to be *huge* (like, 17 GB of HDD space for AoE: Definitive Edition). Just saying.

He could also spend a lot of money and buy a super computer laptop that makes my desktop look like some old game console. The point is it must be cheap, work for casual stuff (write a book) and run Warcraft III some what.

For the GPU, I would suggest that you avoid anything equipped with an Intel one.

So you are telling people not to buy Intel processors at all?! Seeing how all modern intel processors have integrated graphics...

Again, you may refer to the lists of officially supported video cards for some games by Blizzard, for reference.

Warcraft III states it needs a Direct 3D9 compatible driver. The one he is interested in has Direct3D 11.1 so it should be compatible. Intel being intel if it actually is, is another question as they are notorious for driver bugs especially with deprecated stuff.

 

[pyf]

4GB is enough. Windows 10 OS uses about 1GB so 3GB free for Warcraft III is fine.

Maybe I should hunt for those posts on Battle.net in which you advocate for more?

It is imho wise to check that more RAM can be added.

He could also spend a lot of money and buy a super computer laptop that makes my desktop look like some old game console. The point is it must be cheap, work for casual stuff (write a book) and run Warcraft III some what.

People always want more with their computers.

Because the idea is to sell both his Netbook and the Acer, he may decide to go for something better, depending on how much money he can get out of them.

So you are telling people not to buy Intel processors at all?! Seeing how all modern intel processors have integrated graphics...

??

A GPU is not a CPU.

Warcraft III states it needs a Direct 3D9 compatible driver. The one he is interested in has Direct3D 11.1 so it should be compatible. Intel being intel if it actually is, is another question as they are notorious for driver bugs especially with deprecated stuff.

Hence why I would not recommend an Intel GPU.

Because the system requirements and video card support are subject to change without notice with Blizzard games, and because there is no official way to roll back to the next previous version with the modern online installer for Warcraft 3, one should imho not take any chances.


Supported video cards for some popular Blizzard games:
- StarCraft: Remastered
- StarCraft II
- World of Warcraft
- Overwatch
- Hearthstone
- Diablo III

Again, these compatibility lists are subject to change without warning.

I am still waiting for any update in our Complete command-line arguments guide.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Maybe I should hunt for those posts on Battle.net in which you advocate for more?

WC3 is not HotS or Diablo III.

??

A GPU is not a CPU.

All modern consumer intel processors seem to have integrated GPUs in them. Trying to get an Intel processor without one is difficult, if not impossible, outside of servers. You told him to avoid Intel GPUs so basically avoid all Intel CPUs?

 

[pyf]

WC3 is not HotS or Diablo III.

What if WC3 will not be WC3 anymore soon, in the same way StarCraft is already not StarCraft anymore?

All modern consumer intel processors seem to have integrated GPUs in them. Trying to get an Intel processor without one is difficult, if not impossible, outside of servers. You told him to avoid Intel GPUs so basically avoid all Intel CPUs?

Someone is trying to draw me into an argument here, I see.

I did not know that AMD had gone out of business yet, like Cyrix or Transmeta did.

 

[Bribe]

Would 7nm usher in a new era of Windows tablets, or do you think they are abandoning the low-power Windows market entirely, in favor of Android or more powerful Windows devices.

I am not convinced that it is worth spending even 180 on this thing, as like has been said the GPU may "one day" be too incompetent.

So I did some more searching, and found a used miix 310 (also with 4GB/64GB config) for 120euros.

If I need to sell it one day, I'll take a minimal loss on the tablet, but would take a huge hit on a new model of whatever I buy.

 

[Dr Super Good]

I did not know that AMD had gone out of business yet, like Cyrix or Transmeta did.

AMD has not gone out of business. No idea who told you that...

There are a select few Intel processors with AMD GPUs on them. However they were reserved for premium machine OEMs (not available as discrete chips to consumers) so would almost certainly be out the desired price range.

 

[pyf]

AMD has not gone out of business. No idea who told you that...

No one did. I was teasing.

 

[Bribe]

And... Ordered! 110 euros for the 310. Here's hoping Notebooks wie neu
deliver a functional device!

The Asus is already sold for 70 euros.

 

[Bribe]

And it's here! First impressions: amazeballs. Switching between tablet and notebook is really remarkable.

Also, guess what? Warcraft 3 on max settings, native 1280x800 resolution, running at very fluid frames per second.

Yep, the perfect purchase for me, at the perfect price. I'm thrilled.

 

[pyf]

Cool. 110 Euros is really a bargain price for that kind of hardware imho.