Icons - What is Acceptable?

[Amargaard]

Hey, amargaard's here!

I have uploaded 2 Icons here on the HIVE, but they have both been Rejected. The reason, i think, is because I have taken and edited some of the normal Warcraft III Icons to something useful for myself.

I'm not angry though, because I don't want to be against the rules, but I just want to be sure how to make the icons the right way, so they can be accepted (And not Rejected!)...


These images shows the changes of a Normal Bandit Icon...
1) The Normal Bandit Icon
2) The Agamagir Icon - I made this one to my own map, I didn't upload it here though
3) The Angarak Warrior Icon - Made this for my custom race (The Angaraks), uploaded, but was rejected...
4) The Angarak Warrior Icon 2 - Edited the Angarak Icon further... I haven't uploaded yet, because I don't know if it is aceptable...

Please, tell me if the last one is acceptable here on HIVE or else what i need to do with it to make it acceptable... And I would like to know exactly why or why not... :-/

 

[Bloodbane7]

Alright I found this in the rules, although I don't pesonally know what is acceptable by THW's standards. (sorry to moderators/webmaster/whoever it may concern, I couldn't find a way to link this to its page on THW)- To find these rules go to Rules, and scroll down to the ones on resources and maps and click on icon rules.

Icon Rules
General Guidelines
All general site rules apply. This includes prohibitions against any offensive or pornographic art.
Freehand Content
All icons must be at least 50% freehand created. Non-freehand techniques include mirroring, cloning (or brute cloning, as in clear copy-paste), recoloring, resizing, rotating and tracing.
Icon Quality
Quality is really very important: making a scratch icon will not be enough if it is poorly done. Throwing in some filters will generally not produce an acceptable result. Make sure that the final icon is detailed (not blurry or badly resized) and looks good in the game. Icons lacking an active alpha channel will not be approved.
Recolored Icons
Recolored versions of (author created) icons are allowed as long as they are made for certain purposes- such as potions.
Original Work
Stealing shall be severely punished with -25 reputation/icon. Stealing up to 2 pieces of art will result in a temporary ban (1 week). If the stealing continues, any offender shall be permanently banned.
Copy and Paste
If you partially copy-paste parts of your icon, mention the source or else it might be considered stealing.
Model/Skin Icons (for a unit, doodad or building)
These icons are special: ONE screenshot icon is allowed by the author (compatibility object-icon). The resource model/skin must be uploaded on the site: a link is required otherwise the resource will not be considered valid.
Example
If RDZ makes a gorgon unit model and uploads it to the site, he is allowed to upload in the icons section ONE icon obtained through a screenshot of the Gorgon, with the condition that the icon is decent (screenshot taken decently) and that a link to Gorgon model is included in the icon's description.
Public Domain Icons
In some extremely exceptional cases (when author cannot be contacted and someone else posts an icon for a resource which lacks one posted by the author), it may be accepted. DO NOT abuse this rule (especially if the author is actually active but not visiting the site daily). Inactivity period: 2 months.
Icon Borders
Icons must ALWAYS include both active (with Blizzard border!) and disabled version. Passive and Autocast borders are required only for abilities & spells. Methods of obtaining and properly producing icon borders include the following.
Edit any standard Blizzard icon and maintain the border's integrity.
Download and use one of the existing icon border templates. Icon_Borders.psd or ICON_TEMPLATE_STARTER
Disabled and other border types may be added using either W3IR or Icon Layer for Photoshop
Possible Exceptions
IF THE RESULT PROVES TO BE EXCEPTIONAL, THE ICON MAY BE APPROVED EVEN THOUGH IT DOES NOT RESPECT ALL THE RULES ABOVE (In order to promote not only good artistic icons, but also useful ones.)

 

[Panda]

Im gonna be nice about this, None of these are acceptable at all. Case closed..

 

[Bloodbane7]

Is it because he copied a Blizzard model?

 

[Amargaard]

I can't use that answer to anything... Please tell me exactly why it isn't acceptable...

How much must I edit it to make it so? You can't even see that the last one was made from a Bandit Icon (Dunno with yo, but I can't), so why isn't it acceptable?

Please tell me, intead of just saying it cannot be used

 

[orcyngiser]

beautiful editing

 

[Joe-black-5]

Re-opened.

 

[M0rbid]

YOu should consider asking one of the icon mods, about theire criterias, but you could also read the rules first.

 

[Deolrin]

You should consider drawing icons from scratch, from zero.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Icons require propper WC3 borders (easy to do thanks to tools). Other borders are not axcepted as map makers can change bhe borders of their icons themselves.

Icons must be in the standard format 64*64 pixels.

It is advisable for simple colour scheme icons to provide them in 256 colour pallet compression rather than 24 bit jpeg compression due to pallet compressing better inside MPQs.

 

[Amargaard]

@Debode: Well, I started making icons for my own map at first. I did just want to make an original icon a little differrent, so I copied a Warcraft III Icon from Wowwiki... I don't know how to make complete new photoshop-pages in the right size, so I just continued making them in that way - Though I have made, for an example my Avatar, from scratch by making the icon completely black in photoshop and then start draw...

@Dr Super Good: ... I did not understand much of that ^^

 

[Deolrin]

Haha.

Ctrl + N, 256x256 sized file, when done resize to 64x64, run a Sharpen filter and add borders.

 

[Zombie]

You can view the moderator commentary left at your rejected icon, that ought to explain more. My bet is the lack of freehand content.

 

[Bloody_Turds]

In my opinion hives way to strict.. i could see them disallowin cnp, asuming its of possibly copyrighted materials..., but not from wc3s own mpq..., they should just do if it looks good, and diversified from the base, it should be allowed..


also.. both those icons would be acceptable in my book... (although the middle one's chin is a little messed up?), id be happy to accept them into my collection, if ud have it (and any other resources you may have that were rejected)
just post the stuff here: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/requests-341/model-texture-collection-requesting-your-old-stuff-171315/index3.html

 

[busterkomo]

We have the gallery for free-hand artists. It's silly to reject an icon for not being free-hand if it still looks good and is useful.

 

[PurplePoot]

We have the gallery for free-hand artists. It's silly to reject an icon for not being free-hand if it still looks good and is useful.

Indeed, but it seems the icons section is supposed to be an art section and not a resource section.

 

[Linaze]

I must agree with hvo and Poot.
There are some incredibly useful icons that are rejected simply because of the current rules.

 

[Joe-black-5]

 

[Amargaard]

Where can I find that rejected-session?

 

[kola]

huh?

In the icons u made, i can see this one was approved... dont know if its new but it wasnt rejected.

 

[Amargaard]

Yeah... The first one was rejected, but that second one got accepted ^^

 

[kola]

do u mean that this one wasnt accepted?

Indeed, but it seems the icons section is supposed to be an art section and not a resource section.

hmm, its the same for all the other sections (Skins, Spells, Maps, Models..)

 

[Amargaard]

Yeah, that one got rejected ^^ ... Someone voted it five, but then someone else noticed it was made from the bandit-icon, and it got rejected... :]

hmm, its the same for all the other sections (Skins, Spells, Maps, Models..)

Hmmm.... and yet a lot of WoW-icons was uploaded by someone without user-name O.O

 

[Deolrin]

The "Wow-icons" that were uploaded "by someone without user-name" were actually released by Blizzard for public use somewhere in the early 2000 years, and they got on WC3Sear.ch. Those icons along with many other icons were transfered along with the whole WC3Sear.ch-to-Hive transfer.

 

[Amargaard]

Oh... well, they are pretty useful, but are kinda non-artistic creations...

 

[kola]

Someone voted it five

Doesnt rly change anything if someone vote it 5 or 1, mods know more than the normal users what is acceptable and what is not. i guess this is cuz its not enough freehand or cuz its useless, its pretty much bandit but brown. if there is no fitting model to it, i dont think anyone will ever use it since there is already real bandit icon.

 

[Avex]

Examples:

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/icons-541/btndraeneimage-86517/?prev=search=draenei&d=list&r=20

 

[Deolrin]

Oh... well, they are pretty useful, but are kinda non-artistic creations...

Oh right. I forgot that the artists who worked on WoW CnPd them.

Examples:

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/icons-541/btndraeneimage-86517/?prev=search=draenei&d=list&r=20

It has a fitting skin.

 

[Amargaard]

Doesnt rly change anything if someone vote it 5 or 1, mods know more than the normal users what is acceptable and what is not. i guess this is cuz its not enough freehand or cuz its useless, its pretty much bandit but brown. if there is no fitting model to it, i dont think anyone will ever use it since there is already real bandit icon.

Nah, I have tried several times asking people to help me making a skin or a model for this one too, but no-one ever did...

 

[Avex]

Oh right. I forgot that the artists who worked on WoW CnPd them.



It has a fitting skin.

Even so, it's not very fair.

 

[kola]

Even so, it's not very fair.

Looool? what are u talking about? its not question of being fair or not, the only reason why icons like this are accepted is ''Corresponding Ressource, Approved''..
Also, people who post icon for their skin/model, have worked a lot to make the skin/model.

if there is no fitting model to it, i dont think anyone will ever use it

 

[~Void~]

Hive has always had very strict/snobbish policies about artistic resources. I think what everyone needs to realize is that these resources are NOT created to show off how good of an artist you are, but to be used as, well, resources for projects.

In my opinion, there is NOTHING wrong with copying and using images that are not protected by copyrights, and most of the stuff that's out there isn't. I'm not going to go into the legality of doing this, because I don't know much about it, but I'm almost certain that it is legal to use images at least from Warcraft 3 itself.

I know I personally make most of my icons from screenshots taken in WC3viewer, which honestly produces much much better results than some amateur trying to freehand a (quite frankly) piece of shit icon in photoshop, because the models I'm screenshotting are from Warcraft and thus obviously fit in with the style of the other icons already in the game. Apparently this is looked down upon, but I remember managing to get it to be allowed anyways.

Copying WC3 icons and textures should be allowed as well. There really is no reason why it shouldn't; this is the RESOURCE SECTION not a CONTEST, and therefore there should be no snobbery allowed.

Also, people who post icon for their skin/model, have worked a lot to make the skin/model.

I don't see how the amount of effort put into making a resource reflects at all on how useful it is. If the icon for a model is shit, it shouldn't be approved. Honestly though, it's not exactly easy to screw up taking a screenshot of the model's head and messing with some values in photoshop.

 

[kola]

I don't see how the amount of effort put into making a resource reflects at all on how useful it is.

lol? when did i say this? its cuz he says its unfair that if u make a model and take a screenshot for the icon it will be accepted but if u just take the icon made by blizzard and turn it brown it wont be accepted. if the icons of the created models are accepted even if they arent freehand its cuz he already worked hard to make his model/skin.

Also icons of models arent accepted till the model itself is accepted so if the model is crap the icon wont be accepted.

I know I personally make most of my icons from screenshots taken in WC3viewer, which honestly produces much much better results than some amateur trying to freehand a (quite frankly) piece of shit icon in photoshop

practice ur ''art'' for 5 years and u wont make better icons than crazy russian lol.

 

[Deolrin]

Kola, watch your words. ~Void~ is quite the artist.

 

[Bloody_Turds]

what i dont understand with the current rules meant to 'cut back' on the garbage.. personally id rather go through 1-2 pages of 'junk' to find what im looking for then, not find anything at all, and have to put in a request only hoping it gets fufilled (or find the resource elsewhere), so in my opinion they should be way more lenient, especially on semi-origional looking content, or anything that stands out from its 'parrent resource', aslong as it isnt violating any legal rules like copyrights...

also i know they keep rejected resources on the server, so why isnt there a way for us average joes to browse those resourses? its only fair >.<, id have a little check box, that says, Include Rejected[]
i mean seriously >.<, not saying i need a medic skin, but go to the skins section and u wont find a single white medic skin that fits the marine model, even so ive submitted one which was a basic recolor, of all the armor parts, and teamcolor +'s on the shoulders figureing that even if its not a perfect scratch skin its still extreemly useful and doesnt look bad ingame, but alas it was rejected as being to simple... im just saying we should fill any voids with whatever we can get our hands on, atleast until theres a couple acceptable options, then we can start to get picky

 

[PurplePoot]

The overarching problem is that the icon rules and the opinions of the sections' moderators aim for the section to be a prestigious art gallery and not a useful resource section (that isn't to say they actively work against the latter, just that they actively support the former even if it conflicts with the latter).

 

[kola]

also i know they keep rejected resources on the server, so why isnt there a way for us average joes to browse those resourses?

that is a good idea, i guess they keep the resources since we can see our rejected resources...

..Btw, i was in ur map maker clan before

The overarching problem is that the icon rules and the opinions of the sections' moderators aim for the section to be a prestigious art gallery and not a useful resource section (that isn't to say they actively work against the latter, just that they actively support the former even if it conflicts with the latter).

Dont say the icon rules, its the hiveworkshop rules. the actual icon rules are if i remember good ''at least 50% freehand'' skin is 75% if i remember good..

 

[Ralle]

Basically any icon can be submitted as long as it is made for wc3 (correct borders) and isn't violating any copyright issues.

This means a lot of crap can be submitted but the ratings should allow people to filter for better stuff.

Perhaps the moderators still moderate according to the old rules x % freehand etc.

So to answer the thread title. Virtually everything is acceptable.

At least that's how I see it. I haven't taken a lot of part in this part of the new rules.

 

[~Void~]

lol? when did i say this? its cuz he says its unfair that if u make a model and take a screenshot for the icon it will be accepted but if u just take the icon made by blizzard and turn it brown it wont be accepted. if the icons of the created models are accepted even if they arent freehand its cuz he already worked hard to make his model/skin.

I think the screenshots are/should be accepted simply because they do the job just fine. Furthermore you should remember that no matter what we allow we still judge all resource submissions based on their quality as well, not just whether or not they follow certain rules.

Also icons of models arent accepted till the model itself is accepted so if the model is crap the icon wont be accepted.

Makes sense, no point in having a bunch of unit icons lying around that don't fit any models.

practice ur ''art'' for 5 years and u wont make better icons than crazy russian lol.

Practice your grammar for 5 years and you still won't make better arguments. HERP DERP caseclosed

 

[kola]

im french. i wont practice my english grammar, its not my language.

 

[Deolrin]

I'm from Israel, and born in Russia. English is my third language. And yet still I'm practicing it and improving it. What's wrong with that?

Either way. I think that the rules at the moment are fair, and it would be horrible if all sorts of icons would be approved.

 

[kola]

I'm from Israel, and born in Russia. English is my third language. And yet still I'm practicing it and improving it. What's wrong with that?

gj, but idc about my english, i just want to be understandable. Also, why would i try to have a good grammar on a forum? im here for fun.. lol

and it would be horrible if all sorts of icons would be approved.

true.

 

[oh_snap]

Indeed, but it seems the icons section is supposed to be an art section and not a resource section.

We have the gallery for free-hand artists. It's silly to reject an icon for not being free-hand if it still looks good and is useful.

By that logic, let's accept textures that are 100% copy and paste, and models that are ripped from other games. After all, they can be useful resources, no?

~Snap

 

[Pyramidhe@d]

alllllright guys. here is how i personally see things

the reason why i am being particularly snobbish is that there is this particular attitude i see in the icon section. its this attitude that you only need to make icons to an extent that they are only JUST barely good enough to be approved.
"hey, lets just make this generic sword with generic background cos it will get accepted"
and when i suggest that they try something a bit more challenging, the general vibe i get from everyone(the icon maker and any other user who cares) is "screw you, old man. good enough is good enough" and at the end of the day, everyone kinda just plateaus at this "mediocre" quality range.

you dont see that in the skin section. you've got redshift and chrome and other wonderful artists that inspire others to do better. in the model section, you have numerous model makers who continue to show what people can do if they really tried. its just not the "big" modellers. all modellers in general continue to strive for their best. the result of this is the people just naturally, without being told to do so, tries to do better themselves.

but instead, in the icon section, i get, for example, people who just loves to post particularly interesting smudges because they reckon its useful. when i tell them improve, you know, have some self respect and do better, they say, "oh NAH MATE. i'll just delete it" and moves on to the next interesting filter effect or another smudge. i find this attitude absolutely pathetic.

i could continue to write about what kind of icons seem useful but infact useless but i will just skip that. cos no one is gonna read that.

in order to lift the people in gereral out of this rut, i reject screenshot icons because where is the skill in that? i reject filter effects because where is the effort in that? i reject random smudges, no matter how useful they look, because they are just insults to those few some people who actually try and improve their icons and setting a bad example to rest of the icon makers.

[/rant]

 

[Panda]

alllllright guys. here is how i personally see things

the reason why i am being particularly snobbish is that there is this particular attitude i see in the icon section. its this attitude that you only need to make icons to an extent that they are only JUST barely good enough to be approved.
"hey, lets just make this generic sword with generic background cos it will get accepted"
and when i suggest that they try something a bit more challenging, the general vibe i get from everyone(the icon maker and any other user who cares) is "screw you, old man. good enough is good enough" and at the end of the day, everyone kinda just plateaus at this "mediocre" quality range.

you dont see that in the skin section. you've got redshift and chrome and other wonderful artists that inspire others to do better. in the model section, you have numerous model makers who continue to show what people can do if they really tried. its just not the "big" modellers. all modellers in general continue to strive for their best. the result of this is the people just naturally, without being told to do so, tries to do better themselves.

but instead, in the icon section, i get, for example, people who just loves to post particularly interesting smudges because they reckon its useful. when i tell them improve, you know, have some self respect and do better, they say, "oh NAH MATE. i'll just delete it" and moves on to the next interesting filter effect or another smudge. i find this attitude absolutely pathetic.

i could continue to write about what kind of icons seem useful but infact useless but i will just skip that. cos no one is gonna read that.

in order to lift the people in gereral out of this rut, i reject screenshot icons because where is the skill in that? i reject filter effects because where is the effort in that? i reject random smudges, no matter how useful they look, because they are just insults to those few some people who actually try and improve their icons and setting a bad example to rest of the icon makers.

[/rant]

I completely agree with this.

 

[Deolrin]

Army-of-Pandas, but you always remove icons that you are told to improve. .___.

And then submit a completely redone yet strikingly similar icon.

E.g. your bow icons.

 

[~Void~]

gj, but idc about my english, i just want to be understandable. Also, why would i try to have a good grammar on a forum? im here for fun.. lol

I dunno, why would you try to have good grammar anywhere? It's all for the same reason; people will actually take your opinions into consideration if u dont pst them lik ethis lol. This is an English-speaking forum, and it's fine if English isn't your first language, there are plenty of people here for whom that is the case; however, everybody else at least tries.

Furthermore, the thought that you aren't trying to write properly naturally leads to the thought that you probably aren't trying to make a coherent argument, either. Not to say that this is necessarily true, but it's people (including myself) will think.

in order to lift the people in gereral out of this rut, i reject screenshot icons because where is the skill in that? i reject filter effects because where is the effort in that? i reject random smudges, no matter how useful they look, because they are just insults to those few some people who actually try and improve their icons and setting a bad example to rest of the icon makers.

I understand that completely. I'm not entirely sure that a "% freehand" rule will fix anything, though, because idiots will always find a way to be idiots. We'll just get people submitting really poorly painted icons, and when you reject them and tell them how to improve, they'll just get mad, and say "WHAT?! U DNT LIEK MY ART?!1 FUK U!!!"

Really, it all just comes down to the quality of the submission. If it sucks, it gets rejected, and if it doesn't, it gets approved. I don't see why that system wouldn't work.

 

[kola]

u dont pst them lik ethis lol.

i dont write my words like this, i just dont write them like this Do not/Don't/You/Cannot/Can't/By the way/, i write them this way dont/u/cant/btw/ i dont remove a letter to every words like the pst/i dont use a 4 to say ''for'' or a 2 to say ''to/too''.

To Pyramidhe@d post : its normal that people post things that are very basic like a simple sword with a simple glow because making an icon is a lot faster than making a model or a skin. thats why people dont spam skins that are just very basic because they would waste to much time..

 

[Panda]

Army-of-Pandas, but you always remove icons that you are told to improve. .___.

And then submit a completely redone yet strikingly similar icon.

E.g. your bow icons.

Some i do yes, but its because i dont try as hard as i used too, so now im just going to do one icon at a time.

 

[~Void~]

i dont write my words like this, i just dont write them like this Do not/Don't/You/Cannot/Can't/By the way/, i write them this way dont/u/cant/btw/ i dont remove a letter to every words like the pst/i dont use a 4 to say ''for'' or a 2 to say ''to/too''.

You know what I mean. It's hard to consider/respect someone's opinion if they don't communicate it properly. Not to say whatever opinion you have isn't valid, but if you muddy up your posts with silly side comments with things like "" and "lol", nobody will take you seriously.