[General] I need some terraining advice

[Voukras]

I'd really love some critique on my terraining because I don't know how to improve and I feel like my terrain sucks. It'd be much appreciated. All I have right now is a mountainside that I feel like I need to improve upon. I don't really feel like continuing until I know it's at least decent.

Images

 

[UnknownDream]

looks like a good beginning to some terrain to me. one thing you can do is select all the trees and hit CTL + Page Down a couple times to lower the trees into the ground so they're not floating / showing bottom edge. I do this alot with environmental objects for better aesthetics.

Depending on the situation, I am very liberal with shrubs and grass effects also. You can find some nice custom grass / shrub models around the site, some are even animated.

P.S. I also usually use some ingame fog. Used correctly, fog can make things look better, imo. ( It's under Scenario > Map Options )

 

[Voukras]

Thanks, that ctrl+page down tip sounds really handy.

I've read in a few tutorials that I should clump shrubs and grass instead of putting them akin to a field, but you're right, I am underusing them a bit.

I've got a very slight fog effect up, I'll ramp it up a bit.

EDIT: I'll come back with some improved terrain after an hour and a half or so.

 

[Voukras]

I think I've improved a bit. Thanks.

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/4770/terrainingmountain4.jpg
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2628/terrainingmountain3.jpg

I'll post other terrain later if I think it's not up to par. Any further critique is welcome.

 

[Hashjie]

Try using more then 1 tree variation.
A forest that has the same type of tree everywhere is simply not a forest.

Also, you might want to cover up the root of the trees with things like grass, flowers etc.

Why? Lets take for example a cliff:
Have you seen lots of cliffs that have a lot of trees on the very edge where rock starts to form?
(I'm not saying that it's impossible since it's not), but then how can the tree only have 1 root which is the bark?
Since clearly a tree can not live on rocks and the bark seems to be quite deep if it where like that in real life.
Unless the cliff exists entirely of grass and only has rock on the edge I think this would be quite impossible for a tree to live there.

Get my point ?

Hint: There are some really, really usefull tree doodads in the Ultimate Terraining Map including some with great looking roots.
If you really want to use this type of tree it might even be possible extracting these roots from the tree inside UTM and put it on the tree that you're using.

Tip: Take a look at real life forests.
There are still lots of things to improve to give it a more realistic view.
A few examples:
Pitch and Roll Variation of the trees. (Not all the trees in a forest stand exactly 90 degrees vertically)
There is not one bark of a dead tree lying on the ground?
I would say, get some leaves in there too.
Try to put in some more grass with more variation.

Take a look at some forrest pictures on google for some inspiration.
Want to make an awesome terrain? Use custom models and textures!

Here are some helpfull links which might be usefull to you:
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/terrain-board-267/ultimate-terraining-map-3-0-a-45316/
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...e-terraining-hives-terraining-section-184427/

Also, it might be better posting things like this over here instead:
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/terrain-board-267/

Since World Editor Help Zone is actually meant to help people out with their problems with the world editor.
Asking for guidelines, critique or anything like that on your terrain is better to be done in the terrain board.
Not only because it's the apropriate section but also because all the terraining pro's can be found there


I hope this post was of any help.
I didn't mean to invoke any negativity towards you or your creation if this is how you might've interpreted it.

 

[Voukras]

Thanks you, that's extremely useful. I didn't use other trees because they didn't fit the theme, but the ones in this map, especially the pines, are very handy. I'll take a while to sort through and find the stuff I need and import it over but it's still amazingly helpful. I'll start using all the tree models that match the theme. Now I'm wondering why I'm such a nincompoop and didn't search for this earlier.

However, the problem is that not all of the trees in that map have roots and I don't know how to do that model editing you mentioned. Though I might know after I skim through the tutorial section tomorrow, I'm sure there's something there. Thanks again.

 

[Hashjie]

Thanks you, that's extremely useful. I didn't use other trees because they didn't fit the theme, but the ones in this map, especially the pines, are very handy. I'll take a while to sort through and find the stuff I need and import it over but it's still amazingly helpful. I'll start using all the tree models that match the theme. Now I'm wondering why I'm such a nincompoop and didn't search for this earlier.

The roots was kind of more as a suggestion to make it look "more" realistic in case when putting them on top of the cliffs. It's not a nessecary or even mandatory thing to do, but I'll leave that decision up to you.

I hope you saw the edit I made in my post.
Right now I suggest you focus into tree variation, Roll and Pitch angles and more leaves/grass covering.

Take a look here for roll and pitch angles:
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...-278/terraining-principles-pitch-roll-210500/

And generally take a look in here for some usefull terraining information:
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/general-mapping-tutorials-278/

EDIT: I tend to edit my posts quite a lot. I'm not sure if it's a bad habbit or a good characteristic.

However, the problem is that not all of the trees in that map have roots and I don't know how to do that model editing you mentioned. Though I might know after I skim through the tutorial section tomorrow, I'm sure there's something there. Thanks again.

If you can't seem to do it yourself, why not request it over here?
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/requests-341/doodad-creators-206304/

 

[Voukras]

Thanks again, useful information.

Also, it might be better posting things like this over here instead:
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/terrain-board-267/

I will endeavor to post future terraining related threads there. I just never went to the category called 'artist', because I ain't one. Should I just stop posting here and restart it over there?



I took your advice and instead of going on a whimsical quest to accumulate mystical knowledge of model editing I focused on tree, grass and shrub placement/variation as well as enabling pitch and roll for trees. I also redid the elevation to make it seem a bit more logical and natural. Is this better?

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/9608/terrainingmountain5.jpg
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/1442/terrainingmountain6.jpg

EDIT: Now that I look at it, I think that ray of light effect is badly used because there are too few rays in that small region to get the point across. I'll modify that.

 

[imsoconfusedlol]

I'd also suggest removing, or drastically reducing the pathing of most doodads, and setting the max size of doodads to 12 and min to .01, that way it gives you ALOT of freedom to do anything you want!

-I'd use a few more Tile Variations!
-Smooth the edges of those cliffs some more, they look a bit to jagged
-Make the grass overlap the rock terrain, do this by Advance>Modifiy Tileset.
Tiles on the right will be overlapped by tiles on the left, ex Right=Bottom/Left=Top, it makes more sense for grass to be taller than the rock.
-Like others have said, Ctrl+Page Up/Down to adjust doodads! (Pressing PageUp/Down also adjusts height easier too!)
-Try to add more detail to forests instead of just trees, add a few fallen logs, hills with raise, ponds, cattails, etc!

If I sounded harsh I didnt mean too you got some really nice terrain in those pics

 

[mckill2009]

rocks also must be pulled down so that it shoudlnt float, also, need some bush/flowers, etc... and terrain variation, like dirt/dark grass etc...
anyway looks nice keep it up...

 

[wolfman]

like mckill said, vary the terrain a little. Throw some grassy dirt, darker grass, a few dirt patches in there. Make the grassy dirt go around the trees so it kind of looks like a path, make it random tho. Dont try to perfect it, just do it quickly without thinking about it. If you spend too much time on it making it evened out it will look artificial. If you just keep on adding little random patches and paths it will look more realistic. same goes for shrubs, throw a few random pieces of shrubbery, some mushrooms, flowers, etc. But the idea is to make it look random and natural, not like you made it the way you thought it would look nice