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"Human vs Scourge" (dont got a name yet) AOS

Discussion in 'Map Development' started by Hemske, Jul 8, 2009.

  1. Hemske

    Hemske

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    "Azeroth's Last defence" will be the name as it looks at the moment :)

    Story about the map is something i am in need of/working on but i got a very short summary.
    The humans/good guys have lived peacefully in their homes/cities/villages until the scourge scums came to their lands, invaded their homes and slaughtered their familiys, ancient warriors and heroes have been awaken when this happened. And they will not give up without a fight... Its a 5v5 AOS style map, with custom heroes, items, events and much more to come :)


    Heroes
    Heroes:

    Shaman- Exiled by his tribesmen, Themos has seeked his purpose for all his life. One day the spirits answered his call and told him of the encroaching darkness. WIth the combined power of elemental spirts at his side, Themos is now going to prove that his life isn't as worthless, as his tribesmen once said.

    Abilites: Chain Lightning, Bloodlust, Healing Wave and Lava Burst.

    Minor Ability: Critical Strike.

    Pretty boring hero, got normal abilities >_> except from the lava burst, which is just a huge damage target spell with ministun. Can work pretty good as both support and carry a team.

    Banshee- (No lore yet)

    Abilities: Wave of death (just a modified shockwave), Death strike, (A modified Flame strike), Dark Blast (Blasting the area around herself, dealing damage to all units nearby and stunning. also dealing minor damage to herself), Demonic Summoning ( Summons X number of Dark Minions with chaos damage)

    Minor ability: Transform (a minor hex)

    This one isnt that original either... A nuking hero with a lot if intelligence. A support hero.

    Chupacabra- Driven from his cave in the deserts by the Scourge, the Chupacabra became a powerfull ally to the Forces of Azeroth. Known for his brute force, Neuthit mere presence on the battlefield inspires fear in the hearts of his enemies.

    Abilities: Blood Steal,(Life steal kind of ability) Stalking, (a wind walk that increases movement speed and gives a huge amount of extra damage when breaking the invisibility) Chupacabra Spirit, (passive movement speed increase spell), Duplicate. (Creates a clone identical to the Chupacabra itself, has all bonuses and deals 100 % damage and takes 100 % damage, doesnt lasts for so long though).

    Minor ability: Burning skin. (deals some % of damage taken from melee heroes and increases armor by 2)

    Nothing original with this one either to be honest... The first heroes i did for this map is pretty lame.
    Mostly passive skills, great with some attack speed and damage items, carry type of hero.

    Kuang Shi- Banished from the world long ago, The Kuang Shi was a myth, a local legend. Yet, against all odds, the ancient being had somehow managed to survive. It was only recently that he was recruited into the Scourge, and little is known of his capabilities.

    Abilities: Death Implosion, (deals X multiplied with intelligenc to nearby units and stuns) Death and Decay, (not channeling) Devastating Power, (Cleaving attack) Dark offering. (offers 15 % of his max hp to heal a friendly target)

    Minor Ability: Vampire Haste (passive attackspeed increase)

    Carry/Supporter hero.

    Runemaster- Mikko Runewrench always was a strange gnome... He spent too much time with the dwarven explorers and too little time at the engineering workshop. When gnomes began gathering an army, they frowned at Mikko, who didn't know how to use a gun! (And he called himself a gnome!) However, soon it was proven, that after all the time spent with dwarven rune-priests, Mikko doesn't really needed all those crude mechanical junkboxes...

    Abilities: Life stone (healing ward kind of spell, if the life stone is destroyed, it deals massive AOE damage to nearby enemies) Rune of Lightning Strike, (Deals X multiplied with Intelligence to nearby enemies, also taunts them to attack him for X seconds), Rune of protection, (Increases armor by X, passive) Rune of elements. (He creates rune of elements, summoning random elements (shadow, water, fire))

    Minor Ability: Rune of inscribed lightning (chance to blast attacking enemies with a forked lightning)

    Tank-like hero, great at taking care of nuking heroes with rune of lightning strike.

    Being of Light- While little is known of its origins, Archon soon gained a reputation as an ever effective supportive tactician. The being may be odd but he sure can fight.

    Abilities: Righteous Gain, (chance to get healed when attacked by normal attacks) Armor Burst, (Reduces armor of nearby enemy units) Blessings of the Holy, (increases attack damage by some % on friendly target for some seconds) Holy Wrath. (Dealing damage to all nearby enemy units, and healing all friendly nearby units)

    Minor Ability: Healing Nova (Heals all friendly nearby units by 5 % of max hp)

    Both support hero and carry hero, with holy wrath making him excellent at having in ganks.

    Ice Giant (not done yet)- For ages Ardon Winterchill has wandered the frozen wastes of the North, guarding the icy lands. When evil invaded and ravaged his homeland, the peaceful giant has sworn revenge. Now, his icy fist and cold fury are eager to bring reckoning to the evil itself...

    Abilities: Frost Blast (Blasts the ground, creating X amount of frost novas in a circle around himself, each dealing damage to all units nearby), Frost Spikes. (Like a impale, but frosty ^^), Freezing Fists (slows the enemy when attacking) and Sub Zero (if unit has below a set amount of mana it gets instantly killed).

    Minor Ability: Eat tree (can eat trees to regenerate some hit points)

    Overall a nuking hero, but got some abilities to manage a combat.

    Battle Mage (not done yet)- (No lore yet)

    Abilities: Power of Blood, (gives splash damage and some extra % damage for some seconds) Mana burst, (creates a orb that moves towards the target aura, draining 10 % mana from each unit (including self) and then deal damage equal to mana drained at target area) Magic of quel'thalas (gives a chance to heal a random unit nearby each time he casts a spell), and Mana Burn (y'all know what a mana burn is ^^)

    Minor ability:

    Some info about the concept
    Will contain a large amount of custom items, heroes, units and spells. Will add a sort of "Defender" and "Commander" event, "the humans/good guys are using all their summoners to recreate the ancient defender to bring holy wrath upon the scourge", same with the "commander" but instead the opposite of "defender". These two "imba creeps" will spawn at the middle lane after maybe 30-40-50 (?) minutes played if none of the teams have won. Different teleports on the map will exists, Different points of interest that enhances the gameplay with extra exp/gold/special creeps, will also have some events on the map that triggers under special circumstances. You have to destroy all towers on the map before killing the other team's base. You can win either by destroying the opposite teams base or by a designated amount of hero kills.

    Upcoming things and things to add
    Things to add:
    -Commands (to enhance the players game)
    -Different game modes (quick mode (lesser creeps, easier towers, less hero kills needed to win), long mode (the opposite of quick, duh) And more)
    -More heroes (target is at least 30-40) (For BETA version 10-16)
    -More items (target is at least 4-6 full shops (including recipes)
    -Events
    -Upgradeable creeps and towers
    -certain points that give exp/units/gold that exist on different spots of the battlefield
    -Abilities to the some creeps
    -Any idea is welcome :)


    Things Needed
    Things needed (at the moment):
    - I need someone to make me a multiboard, including deaths, kills, death time, time until Defender/commander summon. (beacuse im not that good with multiboards, if someone can make this for me, pm me or write a post on this thread, and ill give you more info about it
    - I need a good terrainer (got ALPHA/BETA terrain, but i want the map to be a LOT bigger than now, so i can have space for all events, points of interest, different neutral buildings and other stuff) pm or write in this thread if you are interested, and ill give you more info.
    -Need someone that can make me icons i need (wont be a million, just sometimes when i feel that there doesnt exist a proper one for the spell im doing^^)



    Any suggestions/tips/help is always welcome :). Tell me what you think about it :).
    Will update this post regulary.

    Update:

    -Added a screenshot for showing how the tooltips look like.
    -A new ability to both Battle Mage and Ice Giant
    -Lore for Chupacabra, Being of Light and Kuang Shi
    -Deny and suicide triggers added
    -Ice Giant is completed
    -Some small bugs/problems fixed

    Screenshots:
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 31, 2009
  2. Lolaroids

    Lolaroids

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    Hi there,

    This sounds like a good idea, not very original. If I were you I'd make the characters more related to eachother then they are right now, for example: shamans are a common sight in the Warcraft lore, Chupacabra's however dont have anything to do with the Warcraft lore. On the other hand, good choice of models/skins.

    Regards,
    Lolaroids
     
  3. Hemske

    Hemske

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    I know its not that original, thats why i want to add things, that ARENT :). Thats why i am adding stuff like these random events, commander/defender thingy and these kind of stuff (also open for more suggestions to make this more original). And my opinion is that combining both some kind of other heroes than only regular warcraft universe units, might give it a little more original touch ;). Thanks for your comment though :)
     
  4. Bob1897

    Bob1897

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    I know that I probably sound like a broken record, but don't make a map that's already been done, esspecially if you can't meet the standards of the origional map. Besides, there are more than enough AOS maps out there....
    Anyway, I don't mean to discourage you, I'm just stating my opinion. In any case, while the map as a whole might not have any prospect for origionality, that doesn't mean that certain aspects can't. Try to offer an incentive so as to draw more AOS players from icewind or dota, and to your map. Best of wishes, and good luck.:grin:
     
  5. Hemske

    Hemske

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    I will not stop working on this project ;). And i want it to be something.. Special :). Even though AOS is nothing original, its not many that are played, since Dota exists, and therefore i want to make an AOS that is great, and can draw players from dota :) (and thats not easy with the huge community and competitions and stuff)Thanks for you comment ^^
     
  6. YeeShadow

    YeeShadow

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    This is quite long, but take a little time to read it, it might help you.

    I did an AoS map for testing a new AI System I created to used on a campaign I'm working on right now. This was a really weird AoS map and I never uploaded it anywhere, and I acually lost it XD (I didn't use the AI system in the campaign after all...)

    Well this AoS I created was really weird in many aspects, I really like to create maps that are uncommon. I'll list some of the most important and weirds parts of that AoS map, use any idea you want.

    - Another resource: I named this resource "magic", you used to buy special things, specially upgrades or to repair buildings (And something more importnat). The way to gather that magic was simple, there were lanes, each lane had one tower that produced magic, of course you could conquer those tree places to work for your side, it was a battle for resources too.

    - More gold income: It worked like the magic, but instead a tower, it was a gold mine...

    - Summon Builders: No, no, this is not a common hire peon-type unit to use it to repair your base, you buy that thing to summon lots of peons to repair the towers. I really loved how it looked, a lot of peons appeared in front of the castle (the primary building you need to destroy to win) and they start running all around repairing towers, buildings and almost everything. Of course you could kill the peons to stop them.

    - Power Generators: The goal was the same, destroy the enemies base, to do that, you needed to destroy the generators first, those generators were almost in the entrance of the base, to make it simple... but, this was to make people fight in each lane, not just focus on one.

    - Rebuild Buildings: You could rebuild your defenses and of course the generators, for that you needed magic. This worked different from the Summon Builders function, the buildings just appeared (with a teleport effect) so it was an instant thing, this is a very tricky part for the balance, but it make the game really fast, always with lot of action, you needed to be fast to defeat your enemies, this simple function make the map 10 times more interesting, and you need to destroy the enemies magic spots as fast as you could to prevent them from gathering magic.

    - Change sides: What?? Are you insane?? Yes... you could be a traitor the whole time...

    - Send items: I loved this function, if you are a terrible player you could send items to the other players to help. Lets say you buy a potion and want to send it to another one, you go to the shop, "buy" the send item, you give the item to the runner, and she started running, the problem is that she could be killed and she dropped the items.

    - Nightmare Spell: Well, this is as simple as it sounds, but it was extremely weird, it was an ultimate, you put to sleep a target then it becomes invulnerable, then a ghost appeared far away from the target, that was a representation of the unit dreaming, that ghost could be controlled by the owner of the sleeping unit, the objective was to reach his body to wake up, but, if the ghost was killed before reaching the body the sleeping unit died, the problem is that the only one that could see that ghost were the nightmare caster, but the ghost make the minimap ping, but if he stopped, the mini-map stop the ping, so it was a hide and seek mini-game with an ability. I never uploaded this because is harder to use than it sounds, specially beacause you can't make the ghost appear in any place, because it could get trapped.

    - Advance AI: And it was seriously Advanced, so advanced that you could only use it in single player mode (too much lag in multiplayer, specially with full house, 10 players). And what is the advanced thing? Well... if you typed something like "I need gold!" or "Gives me money" or things like that, the AI
    respond in different ways, so, it was really AI, not a simple command, like "-all gold to me". Let me get a little more in depth with this system.
    - Each hero have their own personality, and each hero react different depending on the situation. You may have seen things like, the base is being destroyed and the AI is still trying to destroy the enemies base... well, with my system the AI, depending on the situation and the personality of each hero they could go and defend, buy a "Summon Peons", continue attacking, and more...
    - More important, the AI was created to make the player feel like it was playing with someone. Not just another random creep. If you typed things like "help me", they answer depending on the situation and their personality, and yes... they answer... They could answer things like "Can't you see I'm in trouble here?" or "Can't teleport, I'm going as fast as I can", each hero with more than 20 different phrases for each situation...
    - To make the player feel like it was playing with someone else, the AI also talked sometimes, and can even chat with the other AI units, from your side and from the enemies side too, they could something like "you're gonna die" or they could ask for your help, money of something else, like "I'm dying here! Please give a potion, you have to spare!"
    - To make this possible you need to develop the heroes, their history, an more, it was really simple to me, because they were from a previous campaign I created, so they act as if you were playing with those characters, they even have a relation between heroes that could change their answers.

    That's all I remeber now... hope you find it useful.

    More things that are not really common but have been used:
    - Upgrade units: Stats only
    - Upgrade units: Change their actual look and improve all their stats.
    - Quests
    - Secret Heroes: Not overpowered heroes please xD
    - Secret Items: Secret and unique powerful items that can be dropped when dead, if you want you could destroy it for no one to use.

    That's all I can remember, but I have more ideas right now XD maybe in another post I'll tell you, I already write far too much. Sorry for the typos XD
     
  7. Hemske

    Hemske

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    Oh man, thats a lot :O. Thanks for the huge comment :). Was useful and maybe ill take some of those things. Not that good in AI so im afraid i cant create a AI like that (seems awesome though^^). Appreciate that you took your time for this.
     
  8. Bob1897

    Bob1897

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    Don't go on the defensive... I already stated that I don't mean to discourage you. I'm simply stating that you, as a single player, must live up to the expectations for any AOS map, and must be prepared to compete with Dota. In any case, I appologize, I simply find it rather difficult to comment on an AOS when Dota takes up practically all of the custom games section. In my opinion, Dota is ridiculous, but that doesn't mean all AOS maps have to be. Again, sorry.
     
  9. YeeShadow

    YeeShadow

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    Oh! I forgot something.

    I also used (in almost every map I make) a secret merchant, that goes from place to place selling his items XD is a normal unit that can sell items, is not a building, you can make him stop every time a unit comes close to him, and set certain spot so he will stop there a few minutes, that's the way I used it. It can also be killed, so you can make crazy strategies with that, like, gather as much gold as you can, buy some of his special items and then kill him, that way the other players won't get any of his special items. But in my AoS, to make it more fair, the items he sell were droppable.

    You'll probably see me in this thread a lot XD I love AoS maps and I think this will be a great one.
     
  10. Hemske

    Hemske

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    Well, thats just good, i need ideas and suggestions ^^
     
  11. DanThanh

    DanThanh

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    Hi fagge, nice to see your project, i think Antistone has some nice ideas you should take a look at: (link:http://www.mindflare.com/wc3maps/ideas/aos.htm)

     
  12. YeeShadow

    YeeShadow

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    I personally liked the idea to manage the amount of units in each lane, but, I don't like the idea of the resourcers, its to limited, but I have some ideas to make that work.

    - Manage units -
    Well, this could be awesome, but, the problem is that it won't fit at all with a system that gives no bounty (since this is a primary source of gold), so it cannot cost gold if this is implemented, but instead make the other lines suffer. Start with the same quantity of units in each lane, but let's say the right lane is suffering too much, so you could take away 1 unit for the middle and south lane, and put them in the right, causing the other lanes to decrease in offensive power, but giving the other a huge advantage, but it really implies lot of strategy since the other lanes are losing men. Of course, if could be an option to increase the man power of each lane by recruiting more man, and in that case it could cost you gold... or better, cost gold to the CPU Player. (Check the CPU Player Gold section)

    - Gold and Exp -
    I agree with the bounty, it really sucks, but there are better solutions for this:

    - Exp and gold for all -
    Each time someone kills a unit all the team will receive gold and exp, so, that way the people of the same team will actually be a team, and they'll try to work together to kill the enemies and gain exp, and gold. But it is still a bounty and the enemies could kill their own units right? Well... keep reading.

    - The Jail -
    Yes, I though of a Jail, just to put a player there, and now I know how to use it, if you kill a friendly unit you will be teleported to the Jail, and... What you're going to do there? Well... nothing XD you'll lose precious time, and while you are there you won't gain exp nor gold, so you'll need to be careful with spells like Blizzard.

    - CPU Player Gold -
    As all we know, with a bounty system the player that gets the most gold is the CPU Player, well with a "bounty for all" system you could get a lot of gold from this player, alone, so I thinks there's no need for extra resources points, but that's a little unfair, so the gold and exp won't be as high as if one hero kill the unit. But if you decide to give gold to the CPU Players, those resources could be used to improve defenses, hire more man "permanently" (it will keep draining gold for each spawn, so there will be a limit, but it won't affect the players' gold)

    More things... strange things...
    - Super Turrets -
    Those could be special points, or special units in the base.
    Those could shoot at really far distances, and with some massive attack damage, the ability can cost mana, or gold, but it won't reach the enemies base, but is a really fun way to attack from far distances, you could test your luck and shoot in an unexplored area, or send someone of the team to the action and keep firing from the distance. (I got the idea from an oooold game, Total Annihilation, with the Big Berta o_O that was the name of a turret XD)

    - Air Attacks! -
    Similar to the Supper Turrets, but instead of towers, send some planes to strike! It requires more strategy, since the planes take time to reach their target.

    - AoS Tower Defense! -
    Weird... right? You could use some peons to build cheap towers (something like 10 gold) and with really low attack... of course, more type of towers could make it a really weird combination of an AoS and a Tower Defense map.

    - Change the main base -
    Kinda weird... but it would be great to make more bases, if one is about to fall quickly move to the other, this could be really complicated to use, specially for how to make the terrain, but the way to use could be really simple, send a peon to the castle to build another castle, of maybe a townhall, then the townhall will need to upgrade until it becomes a castle, it could take a lot of time to do, and money too, so if the castle is not ready yet and the other is destroyed you lose.
     
  13. DanThanh

    DanThanh

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    Well, your ideas seem very interesting, i doubt why you not make an AOS yourself =))
    In truth, i'm also developing another AOS, but it seems i can't do it better than DotA nor bring all those ideas to truth !
     
  14. YeeShadow

    YeeShadow

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    I was actually thinking to make my own AoS, but not right know, I'm working on a huuuge campaign, you'll see a thread of it really soon and a playable demo with it, and also a cinematic explaining must of the campaign XD

    I've got another idea, this time for a spell. (This was an ultimate from my previous AoS XD)
    The chupacabra, instead of making just a simple mirror image of it as his ultimate, why not make an exact duplicate... it's a common summon unit ability, but, here's the trick.
    The unit summon will be a complete replica of the caster, but, it won't be a hero, it will have the same defense, the same attack, and even the same abilities, and those could be used (except the ultimate of course).
    But, here's the trick of balance, the summoned unit will have the stats, of the hero at certain level, lets say that all the heros learn the ultimates at level 10, then, the duplica will have the stats of a level 10 hero, and spells of maybe level 2 or even 1... and the next level of the ultimate is at 20, then the duplica will have level 2 abilities and stats of a level 20 hero... this is just a common summon unit spell as I said before, but with the same principle as the mirror image spell (yes, it will be easier to indentify... but is as powerful as the real hero and with abilities, so you should be careful anyway)
     
  15. Hemske

    Hemske

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    Dan and Yee, thanks both of you, have a lot to think about now, and a lot of things to add to my AOS ^^. (too bad my terrain is so small at the moment so i dont have that much place to make all these points of interest and stuff, at the moment ;))
     
  16. HellslayerX15

    HellslayerX15

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    sorry that i cant compete with the huge posts you guys are capable of making but i just had to say that making a map has nothing to do with how popular it will become you should just make it if you find it amusing creating it.
     
  17. darkreapers

    darkreapers

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    ok i am just going to come out and say it.
    1) looks like a good start and you have the motivation which is the main thing in making a map!
    2) AoS map, you are going to face the biggest competition ever so good luck to you
    3) Do you plan to release your map over battle net? if so how big is your map right now, it seems to me you have wayy and i mean way to much imported models for people to DL, any map over the 3 mb mark is going to be hard getting a full house. People just dont have the time to wait 10 mins.
    4) try not over do the special effects on spells, people get annoyed when thier heroes die cause they get blinded by a huge flash of frost nova or some other effect

    i wish you luck in ur mapping !
     
  18. YeeShadow

    YeeShadow

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    That's true, I also hate the spells that takes like 5 minutes to read... and then other 30 minutes to understand it... I really hate that kind of super-complicated spells with 30 minor effects... don't do that please..
     
  19. DanThanh

    DanThanh

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    YUP..I agree, that's the reason i do not like Desert of Exile, Age of Myths..etc.
    My eyes bleed when reading those complicated and long description, why not just make a simple line, for example:

    or

    (Diablo II)

    Also, there is no need for something like:

    I think just use the Blizzard standard, and 4 levels for normal spells/3 levels for ulti, that's enough!

    Sure, many AOS have already been created but none good enough so people just keeping saying "waste of time" or something similar, but i personally think, you do it just because you like it !
     
  20. Hemske

    Hemske

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    Thanks for all comments guys ;) And darkreaper, no worry about the imported files, i only got maybe 3-4 models imported, and wont have a lot more, since i want it small, i only intend to have some imported models.