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HoN

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Level 11
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idk.. eversince HoN got hacked by india or w/e its just changed so much =\ now i came back to League of Legends, and it improved a lot since the beta back when i played :D
 
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idk.. eversince HoN got hacked by india or w/e its just changed so much =\ now i came back to League of Legends, and it improved a lot since the beta back when i played :D


What the hell are you talking about, lol. They got DDOS attacked for like a day and then had a harddrive failure later, this only lasted a week and things are exactly the same as they were before.

Without turning this into a HoN vs LoL thread.

HoN > LoL
 
Level 14
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HoN is just 10$ ? That's actually cheap.

But imho if they want to popularize their game they should have went F2P. I mean LOL and DOTA (on Garena) are basicly free. Although I think it's kind of imposible for them to make this transition, at least for now.
 
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HoN is just 10$ ? That's actually cheap.

But imho if they want to popularize their game they should have went F2P. I mean LOL and DOTA (on Garena) are basicly free. Although I think it's kind of imposible for them to make this transition, at least for now.

Well, Dota2 will probably not be f2p. Dota is old and way too outdated.

I would bet hon goes f2p in other countries at some point. Already doing it in SE Asia.

Also, 10 bucks is really cheap.
 
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What the hell are you talking about, lol. They got DDOS attacked for like a day and then had a harddrive failure later, this only lasted a week and things are exactly the same as they were before.

Without turning this into a HoN vs LoL thread.

HoN > LoL


did i mention my account got f'd up in that time period? i cant even access it ne more =\

o well HoN was good, but now im stickin with LoL until DoTa 2 comes out.. unless that game sucks somehow :D
 
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Because of LOL being F2P + so very popular, than DotA2 will be forced to go free to play too.

Does HoN have any kind of microtransactions set up ? Idk... some skins or whatever ?
 
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Because of LOL being F2P + so very popular, than DotA2 will be forced to go free to play too.

Does HoN have any kind of microtransactions set up ? Idk... some skins or whatever ?

Hon has skins, but no in game advantages. I don't think games that sell in game advantages are really competitive.
 
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Just skins ? Hmm... I wonder how good they will faire with just skins.

Well, each skin costs about 8 dollars. And every new skin that comes out I see almost every game for a while. Production cost on a skin is next to nothing, so I imagine they make out very well.
 
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Because of LOL being F2P + so very popular, than DotA2 will be forced to go free to play too.

Does HoN have any kind of microtransactions set up ? Idk... some skins or whatever ?



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Level 11
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i just buy heroes with influence points, but i can see how people would spend a lot on LOL.. they are very sneaky but smart at doing business
 
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Where is the sneakyness you are talking about ? o.0

They don't come personally to talk to you into buying their skins, rune pages, champions and what not.

It's just how micro-transaction works. Same with people who pay for mounts and pets in WoW. First you buy one product... was fairly cheap, you got it at a discount... than the second... than the third... and before you know it, you buy everything on launch.
 
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Where is the sneakyness you are talking about ? o.0

1. release new champion
2. new champion is overpowered as shit, bluff and call it "public balance phase"
3. overprice new champion.
4. profit


On a whole though, my main gripe with LoL is the fact that people CAN and DO pay to get in game advantages over you.

It's silly and unfair. I don't want to grind for hours just to have the same chance at winning as the other guy. Microtransactions should be for purely aesthetic purposes, not gameplay advantages.

I'd rather pay 10 bucks for a whole game, with all new hero releases available to me.
 
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1. release new champion
2. new champion is overpowered as shit, bluff and call it "public balance phase"
3. overprice new champion.
4. profit


On a whole though, my main gripe with LoL is the fact that people CAN and DO pay to get in game advantages over you.

It's silly and unfair. I don't want to grind for hours just to have the same chance at winning as the other guy. Microtransactions should be for purely aesthetic purposes, not gameplay advantages.

I'd rather pay 10 bucks for a whole game, with all new hero releases available to me.

I agree with this honestly. Selling in game advantages is not cool. I would rather they just charge 10-50 for the whole game.
 

Dr Super Good

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The problem is you can not convert a constant revenue stream such as ingame advantages via a shop to a lump sum that all have to purchase. Even if they have the same physical value, they have a much different actual value and different audience.

You get a few "suckers" who will buy everything. These are low risk revenue continually as long as you publish new content at a consistent rate. They are also less likly to quit due to addiction without help meaning they are potentially long term.

You then get a much larger group of "casual" players who might buy a couple of things. These are medium risk revenue as their spending pattern could be random (birthdays, Christmass etc) and they might only buy popular content. These people are also less likly to stick with the game due to no addiction and so could easilly leave for another game at any time.

You then get a group of "parasties" who do not buy. These people are high risk as they use up your server resources yet have an extreemly low chance of earning revenue. They also are very unpredictable and could be on and off at any time due to a lack of dedication.

The business idea is simple. You want as many people to be suckers and as few people to be parasites. Fortunatly parasites generally leave or do not play much so you can write them off as an advertising expense. Casual players probably make up the majoratory of your income and can luckilly be averaged and trended into a much lower risk revenue cateogry. Suckers will be your foundation income, you will seldom lose them during the product life, and can ride you through hard times (eg if another game is released which steals your casuals).

The advantage over a fixed and then play infinitly model that games like Diablo II used is that you take as much money from everyone that you can instead of a constant amount from everyone.
Many people would not be willing to pay for the full game but would buy 1-2 things which means some income instead of none.
Suckers will pay far more than selling a game and expansions (2000 USD someone said above).
You also have good advertising as everyone can try the game.

Thus in short you get 3 financial benifits from micro transactions (especially ones that give an advantage as they are more likly to get people to pay).
1. Constant income with has a higher value in bussiness than a lump income.
2. More money taken from people as people can spend as much as they want (which you promote the want part).
3. High penatration as people can try the game.
 
Level 4
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The problem is you can not convert a constant revenue stream such as ingame advantages via a shop to a lump sum that all have to purchase. Even if they have the same physical value, they have a much different actual value and different audience.

You get a few "suckers" who will buy everything. These are low risk revenue continually as long as you publish new content at a consistent rate. They are also less likly to quit due to addiction without help meaning they are potentially long term.

You then get a much larger group of "casual" players who might buy a couple of things. These are medium risk revenue as their spending pattern could be random (birthdays, Christmass etc) and they might only buy popular content. These people are also less likly to stick with the game due to no addiction and so could easilly leave for another game at any time.

You then get a group of "parasties" who do not buy. These people are high risk as they use up your server resources yet have an extreemly low chance of earning revenue. They also are very unpredictable and could be on and off at any time due to a lack of dedication.

The business idea is simple. You want as many people to be suckers and as few people to be parasites. Fortunatly parasites generally leave or do not play much so you can write them off as an advertising expense. Casual players probably make up the majoratory of your income and can luckilly be averaged and trended into a much lower risk revenue cateogry. Suckers will be your foundation income, you will seldom lose them during the product life, and can ride you through hard times (eg if another game is released which steals your casuals).

The advantage over a fixed and then play infinitly model that games like Diablo II used is that you take as much money from everyone that you can instead of a constant amount from everyone.
Many people would not be willing to pay for the full game but would buy 1-2 things which means some income instead of none.
Suckers will pay far more than selling a game and expansions (2000 USD someone said above).
You also have good advertising as everyone can try the game.

Thus in short you get 3 financial benifits from micro transactions (especially ones that give an advantage as they are more likly to get people to pay).
1. Constant income with has a higher value in bussiness than a lump income.
2. More money taken from people as people can spend as much as they want (which you promote the want part).
3. High penatration as people can try the game.

This is all true, and some form of micro-transactions is the future of gaming. I would like to point out though that this system alienates the gamers. Thus, your revenue is reliant on players who may or may not be playing games a week from now and only held up by the addicts. This works for some types of games, but for others I feel it would fall flat. By alienating a group who plays games the most it seems an opportunity is missed. A hybrid model makes more sense: charge a small rate for the game and all content then charge for superfluous content. That way, you keep both player bases interested.
 
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LOL I'm sure a LOT of people can relate. It doesn't matter what kind of game; any game that does micro-transactions will make someone realize how much money they spent on a "free game". It works in theory, it works in the real market, of course people will not stop because it means $$$. Hell, I'd do it too if I could.

LoL isn't that bad. Some other games are highly borderline criminal about the stuff they give you in return for your own money. For example, a lot of Korean MMOs (i.e. Lunia) will allow you buy something with a CHANCE to get what you want. Some people spend $10 to get it. Others spend hundreds to thousands and still never get what they want. I've heard this story many times and it's quite sad because the only thing I can say to them is, "You got suckered."
 
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Just when I wanted to post about this, DSG took the lead.

On a personal note, another thing which I enjoy about this bussiness model, is that it allows me(the player) to actually play the game, see if I enjoy it and than decide how much money I want/am able to give to the company which made this game. In LoL I didn't buy anything yet. but I did spend about 15$ on SHK which has the similar business model. I am from Romania and that's as much as I can afford.

As for the advantages, really I don't fear them. I've been trying a new champion (Miss Fortune) for a while now, and as I play I pick-up runes for her along the way. My play with her also improved as I practiced more with her.

At 'the' competitive level, be sure that you have all your needs payed for/obtained, so in a way those matches are trully fair.

At my level which consists of rated games at level 30, I get my enjoyment out of the games. I never think that I won or lost because my team had better/worse runes, no... it's about positioning and such.

All those runes mean an extra medium quality item on your character since start. It's not like if you don't pay money, your character doesn't attack at all. No offense but talk about first world problems. Start playing one hero you enjoy, no matter what just pick him always, practice him and enjoy the game. Pick-up bonus stuff like runes along the way.
 
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The problem is you can not convert a constant revenue stream such as ingame advantages via a shop to a lump sum that all have to purchase.

I'm a casual type, and I get frustrated in LoL when facing "suckers" that have in game advantages over me because they spend more money.

I can tell you that I've literally lost because someone bought items that I need to grind dozens of hours for. And as a casual "pop in, play a match and log off" kind of guy, that's really, really difficult and frustrating.

I mean, you spend 10 fucking bucks on one champion sometimes. ONE CHAMPION.

You can BUY HoN for 10 bucks, play all of the 70+ heroes it has right from the get go, and all future releases as well for not a single penny.

There are microtransactions, but its just for things like custom soundpacks, new aesthetic designs for your heroes and icons for your account. No in game advantages. That's what I really respect about it as opposed to LoL.

I start a game, my opponent may have spent $200 on items, but skill and strategy aside, we both have the same exact chance to win.

I applaud Riot Games though, their business model works well for their own benefits. But as a gamer, I scorn them.

It isn't just about being a HoN fanboy, seeing those sorts of models do successfully hurts me as a gamer. I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to have more "pay money to win" models applied to other games. I'd go absolutely nuts.
 
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I can tell you that I've literally lost because someone bought items that I need to grind dozens of hours for. And as a casual "pop in, play a match and log off" kind of guy, that's really, really difficult and frustrating.

You cannot buy items with real money in LoL.
 
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I agree with you on everything you said except this. I don't care which game is better, but this entire argument is bull shit.

I'm a casual type, and I get frustrated in LoL when facing "suckers" that have in game advantages over me because they spend more money.

I can tell you that I've literally lost because someone bought items that I need to grind dozens of hours for.
They hardly cost anything. It doesn't take very long at all to get runes.

And as a casual "pop in, play a match and log off" kind of guy, that's really, really difficult and frustrating.
If you only casually play, you're probably not lvl 30, and if you play normal games, you won't be playing against anyone lvl 30, and therefore they won't have better runes. If you are lvl 30, and you don't have runes... that's your problem.
 
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I remember someone here how he was saying that LoL is sooooooooo unbalanced because you don't have acces too all the heroes from the start, bla bla bla.

Well, do I have a surprise for you !

Q. Will I need real money to play?

No. You will have access to a Rotating Hero Pool of 15 heroes and will be able to play without paying a cent.

Q. Do I have to purchase heroes with real money if I want a hero not in the Hero Pool?

No. You can earn heroes by simply playing the game. However, if you would like to get a hero quicker, you can buy Gold Goblin Coins at http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/ purchase.


Now I ask you dear sir, where is your God now ? :D

What will you do now ? Who is frustrating you more ? Riot that they came up-front since day 1 and said "we are going F2P, microtransactions based" or S2Games who said "you buy the game, get all the content".

Just goes to prove how effective Free-To-Play bussiness model is in a competitive bussiness environment. Now, finally, players will be playing either HoN, LoL or DotA... two of them or even all three, depending on their taste/prefferences but not on how much money they can spend on the game. (note, i am talking now about popularity, not skill, kk thx <3)
 
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I didn't do my research, so chew me out if you'd like. Aren't all three of those games owned by the same company? So really, there's no "popularity" at all. Not in the real business sense, anyway.
 
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Stop posting your reference link, you point hungry coyote. No one is going to click it and sign up so you can get a few more points.


Also, HoN is now free apparently. Personally, I still stand by my point because as a pre-paid user we get everything unlocked/free forever anyway, but now there's sort of a "free account" kind of thing new players can jump onto for free, similar to LoL.

sucks that you have to spend a lot more than a 10$ HoN account to unlock all the heroes though, and they aren't selling accounts anymore. So feel good if you already own one :D
 
Level 26
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HoN seems sooo confusing to me, even as an old DotA player :D
Especially because I cant recognize the DotA heroes and get pwnd because of that :/

Oh and feel free to add me to your friends list. DonDustin is my name there aswell
 
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Eh, not worried about f2p since it doesn't affect me and I have an account. However, I would say it sucks as much as lol does now for free players. Having to buy content is bad, goes for any game.
 
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Apparently this is the selling point of the game.

Any MOBA is confusing really. Hard to get a player base when it takes 50 games for a basic grasp, 100 games to start to really learn, and 500 to really get it. Once you hit a certain mark though it becomes insanely fun.
 
Level 14
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Stop posting your reference link, you point hungry coyote. No one is going to click it and sign up so you can get a few more points.


Also, HoN is now free apparently. Personally, I still stand by my point because as a pre-paid user we get everything unlocked/free forever anyway, but now there's sort of a "free account" kind of thing new players can jump onto for free, similar to LoL.

sucks that you have to spend a lot more than a 10$ HoN account to unlock all the heroes though, and they aren't selling accounts anymore. So feel good if you already own one :D

And this proves that you are just another case of a customer who thinks his product or the company which made the product he purchased is superior just because you spent $$$ for it.

Otherwise you would feel horribly bad for support such a company who goes F2P and asks for real money so players can get 'equal opportunities'. :grin:
 
Level 17
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And this proves that you are just another case of a customer who thinks his product or the company which made the product he purchased is superior just because you spent $$$ for it.

Otherwise you would feel horribly bad for support such a company who goes F2P and asks for real money so players can get 'equal opportunities'. :grin:

and you're a butt hurt LoL fanboy who assumes I'm attacking his game (which I'm not) and needs to sate his own insecurity about the choice of game he chose because he probably spent a lot of money on it despite its main draw being that it's "free". :grin:

not to mention how hilariously hypocritical you are, its so blatant I'm half convinced you're trolling.

By this comment:

sucks that you have to spend a lot more than a 10$ HoN account to unlock all the heroes though, and they aren't selling accounts anymore. So feel good if you already own one :D

I was referring to Heroes of Newerth, not League of Legends. (Although it's technically true for both games, now.)


Also, you should probably look into things a little more. For verified players (people who bought the game pre-f2p patch), we get everything free, now and in the future, and can simply restrict our games to play with other verified players, meaning the game hasn't changed for us at all. This is done while introducting a F2P model for anyone who wants to try the game.

I'd agree with you on the F2P model though, if I was a free player I'd be pretty pissed at S2 since they're practically hypocrites, saying that they would never make people pay for advantages despite the fact that they just made heroes purchasable, it seems they went for a model that worked (LoL). As a verified player though, I could care less.

Also, of course I think a product I spent money on is superior to something that is free. You get what you paid for, pumpkin. (And that applies to both HoN and LoL, as of now, I guess.)
 
Level 14
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1. You can attack LoL as much as you want
Without turning this into a HoN vs LoL thread.

HoN > LoL
2. I haven't spent 1 dime on this game (yes, makes me a parasite atm), will do at one point. Personally I love all the default skins in LoL and see no reason to buy different ones but will do at one point.
3. I knew you were reffering to HoN and not LoL
4. I read the whole page, I know what verified people can do.
5. Your claiming your not pissed on S2 because you payed for the game in advance and thus benefit from all the advantages compared to a new player who needs to accept the f2p model. At the start of the thread you were so pissed about the f2p model how unbalanced it is for players. But now that you are getting the better end of the deal you feel all happy and warm inside. If you were trully against f2p you would be so angry right now out of sheer principle. But you aren't angry, you aren't against f2p, there is no principle.
6. I think this bussiness model is great for both the company and the customer. The company doesn't need to care if everyone who playes the game spends a fixed ammount of money on the game or not. All they need to care is how much total revenue they have this month and how they can improve on getting more. I don't care what name that game is.
7. Personally I don't think S2 were hypocrits. They are a company, they want to make money, to do so they had to adapt, so they did it. Good strategy. Now at least they are on even footing with the competition from a market penetration perspective.
8. I wasn't defending LoL, I was defending the f2p bussiness model.
 
Level 17
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1. You can attack LoL as much as you want

Without turning this into a HoN vs LoL thread.

HoN > LoL

I don't think you got the sarcasm in that post, I'll help you out since you seem a little slow.

Notice how I say HoN > LoL immediately after dismissing fanboyism and the threat of them arguing here? Well, that's called irony.

Just so you don't get confused anymore, I'll add [/sarcasm] tags, so you don't strain yourself thinking about it too hard. :thumbs_up:

3. I knew you were reffering to HoN and not LoL

Then why decide to suddenly attack me out of the blue? For shits and giggles? The post you quoted was on the first page, if you wanted to call me out for it you could've done so earlier.

5. Your claiming your not pissed on S2 because you payed for the game in advance and thus benefit from all the advantages compared to a new player who needs to accept the f2p model. At the start of the thread you were so pissed about the f2p model how unbalanced it is for players. But now that you are getting the better end of the deal you feel all happy and warm inside. If you were trully against f2p you would be so angry right now out of sheer principle. But you aren't angry, you aren't against f2p, there is no principle.

Again, you fall on the habit of putting words in my mouth. If you really did read the whole thread, read it again because you clearly seem to be pulling a lot of shit out of your ass.

I'd agree with you on the F2P model though, if I was a free player I'd be pretty pissed at S2 since they're practically hypocrites, saying that they would never make people pay for advantages despite the fact that they just made heroes purchasable, it seems they went for a model that worked (LoL)

The very reason I am pissed at S2 games is out of principle. But I already paid for the game and I still enjoy it as much as I enjoyed it before S2 turned into money grubbing assholes.

If I wasn't pissed at them out of principle, I'd be pissed at them out of practicality. Meaning that I'd be a free player who's pissed at the F2P model he has to use. I'm not an F2P player, and I'm a Legacy player who's still pissed at them, meaning it has to be "out of principle".

Your point is once again moot.

6. I think this bussiness model is great for both the company and the customer. The company doesn't need to care if everyone who playes the game spends a fixed ammount of money on the game or not. All they need to care is how much total revenue they have this month and how they can improve on getting more. I don't care what name that game is.

See, there's two different perspectives you can look at this thing from. As a gamer, and as a financial adviser.

As a financial adviser, oh yeah for sure, the F2P model sounds like a wonderful idea. I mean, both parties are benefiting, right? The consumer gets to play for free and the company makes more money for those dedicated enough.

Now, as a gamer, I have 2 gripes with this model.

1. You can pay to gain in game bonuses over others. This is the absolute one thing you must avoid doing when introducing microtransactions, and the reason I was discouraged from playing LoL. (To be honest though, the real reason I didn't play LoL too much was because it lagged my crappy laptop for some odd reason, but HoN didn't. lol.)

2. It gives us a glimpse at a trend that many video games seem to be following. See, as gamers we wouldn't mind if a few of these games introduce these models, but with the rise of an enormous market of casual gamers that cut their teeth on stuff like Farmville and Maplestory, there's a rising demand for this business model.

It's very, very likely that DotA 2 will also follow this model. And this extends beyond the MoBA genre, other games are applying this as well.

Remember when people predicted the apocalypse after every video game started copying Halo: Combat Evolved? Guess what every generic FPS is like now? Take a look at Duke Nukem for a clear example, and an ironic one at that. Considering it was supposed to spoof modern gaming conventions, not copy them.


7. Personally I don't think S2 were hypocrits. They are a company, they want to make money, to do so they had to adapt, so they did it. Good strategy. Now at least they are on even footing with the competition from a market penetration perspective.

I agree, and I'm not pissed at them for wanting to make money. I'm pissed off at them for breaking on a promise and keeping their fanbase in the dark before suddenly pulling this massive change to the game out of their ass.

My main gripe is that they still managed to squeeze a little "Pay to win" advantage for Legacy accounts. Granted, it's a very, very small one, but it's still the principle (so you notice it this time) of the whole thing.

We can wait 1 month after new heroes are released to play them whenever, or we can pay to have early access to them. The forums are in absolute uproar over the issue, people are not happy with the Early Access thing, even though it's quite minor in my opinion. Heck, the new hero isn't even that good. And with a selection of 70+ heroes to pick from it's hardly worth too much of a fuss.



tl;dr, I support the F2P model as a consumer, not a gamer.
 
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1. "X is such a good player, he can defeat anyone" < sarcasm - he is not actually good, he sux, but by saying that he is good, you joke about him.
"X is the best player in the tournament but he got defeated only by the worst playter in the tournament." < irony

Without turning this into a HoN vs LoL thread.

HoN > LoL
^at most a poor joke. Neither sarcasm or irony.

2.
sucks that you have to spend a lot more than a 10$ HoN account to unlock all the heroes though, and they aren't selling accounts anymore. So feel good if you already own one :D
If you are happy for yourself that you don't need to pay extra, than you are right.
If you feel happy that you have now access to all the heroes and can pwn all the noobs who don't have them, than I am right.

3. It's obvious that the f2p model is getting ever more popular. As a gamer, at the moment in most games I play, the ingame advantages are not that unbeatable. In LoL for example, I see that you are either a casual gamer or a hardcore gamer.

As a casual gamer, you get matched with other casuals, so really, no matter that you have runes with +70 health (which btw means 1-2 hits or even less than 1 in the lategame) it's about how well you can control your hero compared to the enemy. And how well you can play with the team compared to the enemy. As a casual who is also begginer at this game, after playing lots of matches you will end up at rank 30 and will be able to play rated matches. There you most likely suck compared with the other players, but not because of the lack of runes, but because you are just more unskilled than them. As a casual I also don't see how you can get higher in the ranking to the level where those extra health runes at start made the difference.

Not to mention that untill your account is level 20 you cannot acces runes to give you +70 health.

As a harcore gamer, you will just grind your way to getting your heroes and runes and than if you are good enough, you can get higher rated matches.

Note: there are and there will always be some skilled players who make a new account just for the funziez to pwn the noobs.

In SHK there is a different story, it's an mmo game and you can actually take some serious leaps forward. However, in both LoL and SHK there is a gating method through which you cannot use all your bonuses because you do not have the required level/rank.

Furthermore, I played both HoN and LoL. Before I tried these games out, I played DotA for about 5 years. When I started playing HoN or LoL I was so very confused to what was happening either way.

LoL does have bad coding imho. Don't see why it requires so many resources.
 
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1. "X is such a good player, he can defeat anyone" < sarcasm - he is not actually good, he sux, but by saying that he is good, you joke about him.
"X is the best player in the tournament but he got defeated only by the worst playter in the tournament." < irony

^at most a poor joke. Neither sarcasm or irony.

"X is a good player, he can defeat anyone" He's not actually a good player.

"I don't want to make this thread HoN vs LoL" I said HoN > LoL, meaning I actually did want to do that, sparking up a fanboy debate as you can clearly see.

It's sarcasm. Swallow your pride and accept that you were too eager to sling your feces at me to realize it.

Moving on.


2.
If you are happy for yourself that you don't need to pay extra, than you are right.
If you feel happy that you have now access to all the heroes and can pwn all the noobs who don't have them, than I am right.

I don't play with free players, I play verified matches only, meaning I only play with other players that have all the heroes unlocked. Furthermore, while I haven't played against free players yet so I'm not sure how it goes, those players can still play certain heroes if the game modes restricts characters (and you're a noob if you just play AP anyway), so if you get SD, for example, and you roll a hero you don't have unlocked, you can still play him.

It doesn't restrict strategic line ups, as far as I'm aware. You get like X number of passes to use a restricted hero every week as a free player for those situations.

Again, I don't play with unverified account and seeing as I play in a higher tier range (1700+) I don't think it would ever be a problem anyway.


3. It's obvious that the f2p model is getting ever more popular. As a gamer, at the moment in most games I play, the ingame advantages are not that unbeatable. In LoL for example, I see that you are either a casual gamer or a hardcore gamer.

As a casual gamer, you get matched with other casuals, so really, no matter that you have runes with +70 health (which btw means 1-2 hits or even less than 1 in the lategame) it's about how well you can control your hero compared to the enemy. And how well you can play with the team compared to the enemy. As a casual who is also begginer at this game, after playing lots of matches you will end up at rank 30 and will be able to play rated matches. There you most likely suck compared with the other players, but not because of the lack of runes, but because you are just more unskilled than them. As a casual I also don't see how you can get higher in the ranking to the level where those extra health runes at start made the difference.

Not to mention that untill your account is level 20 you cannot acces runes to give you +70 health.

As a harcore gamer, you will just grind your way to getting your heroes and runes and than if you are good enough, you can get higher rated matches.


I have no clue why you're bringing this up. I don't care about the logistics of how the F2P model works in LoL, I care about it being applied to other games all the time. Just because one game got it right doesn't mean others will.

In SHK there is a different story, it's an mmo game and you can actually take some serious leaps forward. However, in both LoL and SHK there is a gating method through which you cannot use all your bonuses because you do not have the required level/rank.

As you've just proven, through this "SHK" game. Regardless of the specifics, fact of the matter is you can pay for an in game advantage to get ahead of others, and I'm against it. If you frequent the Escapist magazine or watch the Extra Credits show, search up on episode by "Extra Credits" on "Microtransactions", its informative and might help you understand what I mean.





LoL does have bad coding imho. Don't see why it requires so many resources.

HoN eats up a lot of resources too, actually. That's not the issue, my crappy little laptop has a decent amount of RAM, but my graphics card is shite (Integrated graphics chip). Minimizing from either game is a pain, but only LoL lags in game for me. I can play HoN on Med-High settings at a solid 30-45 fps range (depending on how much action is on screen)
 
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I don't actuall see the fanboy debate. All I see a lot of us talking about how cheap HoN is. Some of us talked about micro-transactions. You talked about unbalance and how HoN > LoL because it's not through micro-transactions. I tried to explain that although in theory you are correct, LoL managed to get it right through gating. All in all this thread is mostly still on-topic.

Anyhow, point is that I think LoL got it right and SHK got it right too. Yes that player has an advantage over you, but you can take him down in time. SHK is a MMO too. Hence there is no 1v1, you can defeat a player who payes a lot by sheer numbers. It's not fair, true, but it's doable.

So for me, as long as they get it right, I don't see a real problem. When they don't get it right, than it becomes a problem.

Indeed a world full of games who are all f2p will be kinda boring. The problem is if games will actually start to sell serioues ingame advantages without any kind of gating, where the new player is faced to the old player and is not able to catch up to him and/or defeat him ever.

The fact that Duke Nukem Forever is not what it should have been, is a design mistake made by the developers.

However although micro-transactions does affect gameplay, it doesn't affect it (at the moment) to any serious levels. For example, Duke Nukem Forever could have been f2p and still suck just as much. It could have been f2p and not suck at all.

If you are afraid that game companies will just want to use the f2p model but not know how to use it accordingly and will get it wrong... that for sure will happen. Hopefully our dearest companies will get it right and there will always be games which get it right so we can play them.

At the moment they are doing it right, even in SHK. That's my opinion.
 
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I don't actuall see the fanboy debate. All I see a lot of us talking about how cheap HoN is. Some of us talked about micro-transactions. You talked about unbalance and how HoN > LoL because it's not through micro-transactions. I tried to explain that although in theory you are correct, LoL managed to get it right through gating. All in all this thread is mostly still on-topic.

I never really said HoN > LoL (seriously, anyway). I just poked fun at LoL for its F2P business model, and yes, I personally thought that HoN had a better overall balance because that design philosophy was absent. I still think HoN is more balanced for a myriad of other reasons, but that's off topic and a whole different discussion. I wasn't bashing LoL, I was bashing the F2P model.


Anyhow, point is that I think LoL got it right and SHK got it right too. Yes that player has an advantage over you, but you can take him down in time. SHK is a MMO too. Hence there is no 1v1, you can defeat a player who payes a lot by sheer numbers. It's not fair, true, but it's doable.

So for me, as long as they get it right, I don't see a real problem. When they don't get it right, than it becomes a problem.

Indeed a world full of games who are all f2p will be kinda boring. The problem is if games will actually start to sell serioues ingame advantages without any kind of gating, where the new player is faced to the old player and is not able to catch up to him and/or defeat him ever.

Thing is, LoL works on an immediate game basis. I don't know what SHK is so I won't mention it further.

But for LoL, you start a match, your opponent may have more advantages than you start with because he spent more money. Stop there. As of now, the game isn't fair. I don't care if in a few dozen hours I'll be at his level without having to spend a dime, for that very match, I'm facing off against someone who paid money for an advantage against me.

I absolutely refuse to believe that any game that allows you to pay for an in game advantage has "done it right", and there's really nothing to argue here because my opinion on that is set in stone.


The fact that Duke Nukem Forever is not what it should have been, is a design mistake made by the developers.

Again, not my point. I was using it as a rather ironic example of how the FPS genre followed after the first Halo, following its successful FPS formula.

One would think, "Hey, Halo was a great game that worked well. What's wrong with more Halo?!" Take a look around at all of the FPSes released in the past year. I challenge you to name more than a handful that were actually decent and not the same cookie cutter military jack off material.

If that's the trend F2P games are going to follow, no thanks. If it works well for a few games that's fine, it doesnt mean it'll work for the next decade of games.


However although micro-transactions does affect gameplay, it doesn't affect it (at the moment) to any serious levels. For example, Duke Nukem Forever could have been f2p and still suck just as much. It could have been f2p and not suck at all.

Think about it this way. It started with aesthetics, then it went on to minor game advantages, now its getting to some pretty game changing advantages.

Things aren't getting better.
 
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Think about it this way. It started with aesthetics, then it went on to minor game advantages, now its getting to some pretty game changing advantages.

Things aren't getting better.

And at this point we get into another area of this industry, piracy.

I think you value fairness too much. Although it's extremely nice that you value it so high, I think you kind of loose sight of the practical side of things.

Now you are also talking of the possible miss-use of a concept which would lead into a bad/worse experience for the gamer sometime in the future. That will certainly happen, it started happening already on some wow private servers.

But it's important to note that unless all the gaming companies suddently build all their games around a f2p model where they sell significant game changing items, than I doubt such a mentality will last long. Because there will always be that 'first game' who adopted such a mentality... and I don't see it lasting and above that outshine any other game in terms of popularity because... people will just not play it. I accept the microtransactions in LoL because I found it fairly easy to achieve the bonuses others people buy with money. If tommorow LoL starts selling ingame benefits which I cannot obtain unless I pay real money, or ingame benefits of great balance change than I stop playing it.

Furthermore LoL had such great success compared to HoN because and only because LoL was f2p since start while HoN was not. I am pretty convinced if HoN was f2p since start.... with just selling heroes and skins, for sure LoL wouldn't have been at least as popular as HoN. Maybe HoN would have been even more popular. Who knows.
 
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And at this point we get into another area of this industry, piracy.

I think you value fairness too much. Although it's extremely nice that you value it so high, I think you kind of loose sight of the practical side of things.

Again, I'm talking purely from a consumer/gamer perspective. Leaving out "they need to do this to be successful" and "they need to do that" and so on, as a gamer and a consumer for a product they're selling, I feel screwed when people can pay extra to get an advantage over me. Be it minor or major.
 
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Whew, you guys sure are convinced "your" game is better. How much time are you going to waste arguing about it?
 
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