Heroes of Newerth (an AoS styled Game)

[Gilles]

Everything "requires skill". Doesn't make it good.

It's a quality that makes games more enjoyable. And by saying it requires skill, I am comparing it's skill level to most other wc3 maps. Perhaps saying it has many different tactics would be better?

 

[Dreadnought[dA]]

Sounds awesome to me

I 3rd that

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Yay! I'm glad you think HoN is just like Dota or better. This means that mapmakers can take a breath from the flooding of Dota games in bnet and meleers too, from seeing all those bots advertising Dota clans or shit like that.

 

[Deleted member 157129]

Oh it'll take a while yet, and depending on the updates, people might be doubling back later. Besides, I'm not planning to quite DotA just 'cause HoN has better graphics. better servers and better stat tracking.

 

[Dreadnought[dA]]

Actually, after playing about 30 games of HoN, all I have to say is it sucks. It's better than DotA, but not by much, and for being a standalone game it really really sucks.

The only bonuses are, QWER hotkeys, better graphics, matchmaking, and it does seem a little faster paced.

The cons are, it inherited the DotA community (like 1/2 of it) and the item layout IS BEYOND WORTHLESS!!! I used to have fun buying my big items, now it feels like a chore... Oh also it's really unbalanced. Zeus (lol don't know his HoN name) is rediculously good. Basically any long range hero just became twice as good IMO.

Balance can be fixed eventually, but honestly, they should have taken the route of LoL and had all original content.

 

[Super-Sheep]

Zeus aint long ranged. He has only 350 range in Dota. But I dont know about HoN, I also played beta and we had Zeus versus us, but I dont know where I can see his attack range. It might also be possible that they dont have 25% magic reduction as a default as it is in Dota? I couldnt test it a lot yesterday because every game ended on "your allies have abandoned you and you are now free to leave". One death and olololo I leave and go die..

 

[Deleted member 157129]

Thunderbringer (Zeus) is not so much more powerful in HoN than he is in DotA. I have no crosschecked, but I think the values are the exact same. He got short range for a ranged hero (compared to the other ranged ones, well most of them) but it might be he has a little bit more than in DotA- though it looks like rangers in general have a bit more range in HoN, so it's rather proportional.

About balance, it's pretty much taken from DotA, though the new heroes might be needing some re-balance, and that also goes for the new spells on DotA heroes. For instance, Arachna (not Broodmother) seems to be stronger than most other heroes - she's got slow attack mod (like Cold Arrows), a magic resistance spell that upon casting removes negative buffs (so it can end stuns like Glacius' frost bite thing), her ultimate slows down an enemy hero pretty devastatingly and deals damage. 3rd ability is ranged damage buff aura. So in a way she seems like some sort of mixture between N'aix, Viper and Drow.. I suppose.


The item-menu is awkward and hard to get around in the beginning- one thing is that there's new names and new icons, another is the menu itself. But once you get used to it, it's not so bad. For instance you can buy your reciepes pretty easily by selecting the reciepe and buying the items from there to make sure you get the right ones, and you don't need to search- but of course, if you have to buy an item from secret shop, you got to go there.

I wouldn't say ranged is so much stronger than it is in DotA, but it looks to me they've got more range than usual- it might be I'm zoomed closer than in DotA though.

There's a lot of strong melee heroes as well. Quite frankly, most of the heroes are DotA replicas. Warbeast (seems to be Lycan) is still awesome lategame- haven't played him myself, but I've seen him kick ass a few times. Axe is still doing great, and the new spell effects make it impossible to tel whether he have, or have not, used his ulti yet (looks the same as hunger and call effect-wise, but perhaps not animation-wise). But I haven't played that many games (I think it's 10 now) and I can't really give a throughout review.

 

[oritemusic]

Sounds awesome to me

how can a system made for total idiots who would stay till the end even when they're playing 2v5 or they have stuff to do in real life be awesome ?

Balance can be fixed eventually, but honestly, they should have taken the route of LoL and had all original content.

well, four years and no balance for dota yet

PS.: I know that ~20 users will "prove" how balanced dota is by epic "omg you be so noob me haz item rcps me pwn ppl, you haz no skill so you no pwn, icefrog be the best balancer" style comments so go on, I need a good laugh.

 

[Deleted member 157129]

how can a system made for total idiots who would stay till the end even when they're playing 2v5 or they have stuff to do in real life be awesome ?



well, four years and no balance for dota yet

PS.: I know that ~20 users will "prove" how balanced dota is by epic "omg you be so noob me haz item rcps me pwn ppl, you haz no skill so you no pwn, icefrog be the best balancer" style comments so go on, I need a good laugh.

I have not throughoutly tested it, but I think you're free to leave when the team member difference reaches 2-3 players, ie 5v3 and you're free to leave, or at least you're free to leave if you are 1v5. Otherwise, the point is that if you are a player that leaves games, you won't be joining games where they don't want leavers, and that problem is solved. That is why this system is awesome. Competitive players hate it when players leave, be it enemy or ally, this is the best solution yet to solve that. It's too crude to ban people that leave instantly, because sometimes your net is taken out by storms, or random accidents, perhaps the power, and then even 5 minutes to rejoin is too little time.


DotA is balanced, it's just not perfect. It's nearly impossible to get everything right (to be honest I know no game that is). From re-balance to re-balance the strongest heroes are swapped for some other, always trying to leave a balance between how many too strong heroes there are on each side. Last stable version (.59) was the most scourge-biased in history with 5 definite overpowered heroes (Necro, Krobe, Dirge, Axe, Lycan). Thus in serious matches we ban those (and a few more generally viewed as overpowered) heroes before we pick.

 

[Super-Sheep]

Haha just tell me one fucking map that is balanced then. All other AOS'es are far more out of balance as almost all other maps. TDs are the only maps that can be made 100% balanced, because its just all pure math.

 

[X.e.r.e.X]

how can a system made for total idiots who would stay till the end even when they're playing 2v5 or they have stuff to do in real life be awesome ?

For total idiots? Sigh, fail again.
Anyways, 2v5, is still playable depending how long the game has been on and which heroes everyone have and how much item feed did the team of 2 get. Make sure you have at least 1h free time before joining a game then -.-
"BUT WUT IF I HAZ TO GO CAUSE CAT IS ON FIREEE?" (You have to leave cause of some reason) Well all I can say is that tough luck, mate.

P.S. DotA is rather balanced, way more balanced than 90% of the games in b.net

 

[PurplePoot]

P.S. DotA is rather balanced, way more balanced than 90% of the games in b.net

Rather balanced in the vaguest sense of the word. Also, being better balanced than only 90% of BNet is a fail and not an achievment.

 

[Deleted member 157129]

Aight PurplePoot, what would you have done to further balance DotA? 'cause the way I see it, it's on the micro-change level to get it straight, if you nerf an overpowered hero too much, another hero will seem buffed. Besides, in matches of near equal skill on both teams, there's not as much interest in the heroes that are generally viewed as "imba" because the "imbaness" is not significant enough to make a difference. That's balanced enough for me.

 

[Dreadnought[dA]]

I can see how that can be confusing what I said. I was talking about Zeus's cast ranges on all of his spells. Each one is over 700 cast range! You can't get near him and he can deal tons of damage extremely quickly.

 

[oritemusic]

Aight PurplePoot, what would you have done to further balance DotA? 'cause the way I see it, it's on the micro-change level to get it straight, if you nerf an overpowered hero too much, another hero will seem buffed. Besides, in matches of near equal skill on both teams, there's not as much interest in the heroes that are generally viewed as "imba" because the "imbaness" is not significant enough to make a difference. That's balanced enough for me.

To further balance dota ? I would've stopped adding new heroes and actually balancing the ones I had, when there were ~40-60, but currently DotA's balancing is similar to paladin balancing in WoW, the "imbas" get even stronger each update

 

[Super-Sheep]

Tell one imba hero then...

 

[oritemusic]

Tell one imba hero then...

Vengeful Spirit or w/e it's called

 

[PurplePoot]

Aight PurplePoot, what would you have done to further balance DotA? 'cause the way I see it, it's on the micro-change level to get it straight, if you nerf an overpowered hero too much, another hero will seem buffed. Besides, in matches of near equal skill on both teams, there's not as much interest in the heroes that are generally viewed as "imba" because the "imbaness" is not significant enough to make a difference. That's balanced enough for me.

Start off by deleting 80-90% of the heroes so that balancing it is actually possible.

 

[Deleted member 157129]

Start off by deleting 80-90% of the heroes so that balancing it is actually possible.

That would ruin the game entirely, and if it can be balanced with a few heroes, it can be balanced with all the heroes as well. It's just that you're craving perfect balance, and thats something that is never achieved unless there is only one choice; ie if the only hero was Axe, he could not be imbalanced. If there is two heroes to choose from, there is always an imbalance.

DotA is balanced enough to satisfy a large fanbase, does that count for nought?

 

[oritemusic]

That would ruin the game entirely, and if it can be balanced with a few heroes, it can be balanced with all the heroes as well. It's just that you're craving perfect balance, and thats something that is never achieved unless there is only one choice; ie if the only hero was Axe, he could not be imbalanced. If there is two heroes to choose from, there is always an imbalance.

DotA is balanced enough to satisfy a large fanbase, does that count for nought?

no, all we want is a balance, not just new heroes each update. also the so called "fanbase" is based off idiots

 

[Super-Sheep]

I want fun and balance. That means that we need many heroes and items. I know you say Dota is boring blabla, but Dota haters cant understand it. :/

 

[PurplePoot]

There are plenty of good AoS maps with 10-20 heroes in them.

 

[Super-Sheep]

There are plenty of good AoS maps with 10-20 heroes in them.

Yes and I hate all of them.

DoE was the best of them.

 

[Deleted member 157129]

no, all we want is a balance, not just new heroes each update. also the so called "fanbase" is based off idiots

There is tweaks to the balance every update as well, but the best part of an update is new, unexplored heroes and large changes.

Honestly, DotA is balanced enough to be considered a fair eSport, it's just 'cause you can't play it yourself that you're complaining. You somehow envy those who have spent too much time playing DotA.

As for Vengeful Spirit.. must say it's the first time I hear that she is so out of balance, is she too weak or too strong? I can argue against both as convincing. For instance, Venge~ is a teamhero, just like most heroes in DotA, whilst she can also take care of herself, and is suited for solo-lane early. She qualifies as a carry, so she will grow stronger by earning gold to buy items. All her spells are useful for one on one battles as well as five on five. She's a versatile assassin. Though there are weaknesses; although her Str gain is above Agility-hero average, she's not much of a survivor without an item to aid such, and as she is unable to use a dagger (because of the ultimate) she usually has to resort to Lothar's Edge, pretty much wasting an item slot because it's more of a escape tool than anything else on Venge (though it opens up some possibilities for initiations). Furthmore her attack animation is not the kindest for chasing (though far from worst), and the missile speed is not impresive either - making it less easy to control lane early.

But instead of writing a full review (in a messy manner) of Venge, why don't you tell me what makes her imba. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there's no imba heroes in DotA, and I'm not going to fight everything you say, I'm just pointing out that those that are out of balance, are not badly out of balance, in such a way that they ruin the gameplay if they are picked; for example:
In a -pick game, Scourge decides they want an easy win, and go ahead and pick Necromancer, Death Prophet, Undying, Axe and another, fitting hero (say Lycan), a decent Sentinel team would not give up, and although the chances are slightly in favour of Scourge (currently), Sentinel might win if they play well. That is the essence of DotA. If your team plays better than the other, and your hero picks and builds aren't carelessly put together for fun, there's a very good chance you'll win.

 

[oritemusic]

Honestly, DotA is balanced enough to be considered a fair eSport, it's just 'cause you can't play it yourself that you're complaining. You somehow envy those who have spent too much time playing DotA.

Oh. My. God. Can you be even more pathetic ?
Yep, I totally envy idiots playing 15 remakes each day, using the language known only to them and degrading in a daily manner

Yes and I hate all of them.

You can't love dota but hate other AoS's unless you are a freakish dotard ;]

 

[X.e.r.e.X]

Yep, I totally envy idiots playing 15 remakes each day, using the language known only to them and degrading in a daily manner

Show some love.

You can't love dota but hate other AoS's unless you are a freakish dotard ;]

Wow! I didn't know you are the person to decide that!

Example time!

Random boon enters DotA game for the first time of his life. He plays until the game ends. He thinks it's a nice game. Since he liked DotA, he goes and tests other AoS maps. After playing other AoS maps, he thinks that DotA is the only good AoS, but he doesn't play more than 2 DotA games a day since he is an CF addict and plays 24 remakes of it a day.

Is he an freakish dotard? With your logic he is. Makes mucho sense, right?

oritemusic, you are just making yourself look like an ass who has problem with every DotA player just cause they happen to like DotA. Also don't say crap like DotA being unbalanced until you actually play enough DotA to understand it well.

 

[Super-Sheep]

You can't love dota but hate other AoS's unless you are a freakish dotard ;]

You just a tard, nothing else.

I play other maps too, duh. Legion TD is nice. And yesterday I was testing clan [SanD] Steam Wars map. D:

 

[oritemusic]

You just a tard, nothing else.

And you're just a dotard.

Also don't say crap like DotA being unbalanced until you actually play enough DotA to understand it well.

Fail.

 

[Super-Sheep]

Theres nothing bad to be dotard. Being a retard has many disadvantages. Like calling others dotards for no real reason. OMG YOU PLAY DOTA YOU ARE DOTARD

 

[oritemusic]

Theres nothing bad to be dotard. Being a retard has many disadvantages. Like calling others dotards for no real reason. OMG YOU PLAY DOTA YOU ARE DOTARD

Being a dotard has terrible disadvanges too. You, for example.

 

[Super-Sheep]

I am disadvantage? Makes no sense.

 

[Deleted member 157129]

Oh. My. God. Can you be even more pathetic ?
Yep, I totally envy idiots playing 15 remakes each day, using the language known only to them and degrading in a daily manner



You can't love dota but hate other AoS's unless you are a freakish dotard ;]

15 remakes a day. Wait, what? 15?! A day? Are you mad? I play 2-3 games a week. And those are never remakes. I utilize English, I thought that was the broadest known language worldwide? Degrading in which form? If you're talking about general gaming degrading, how many hours do you spend gaming then? What makes you think DotA players play more than other gamers?

If the definition of a Dotard is that you play 15 remakes a day (ie same heroes, same players, 15 games, one day) then I agree that is something terrible.
If it is that you like only DotA, ie is addicted, then it is also a disadvantage (being addicted in general is).
However, if being a Dotard is the opposite of a DotA hater (encompassing all forms of liking DotA, including both addicts and casual gamers) then I can't see the disadvantage, 'cause it's more of a disadvantage to hate something than to accept it.

 

[HyperActive]

And I thought this game was about HoN...

 

[Squiggy]

Guys -.-

//Closed