Galactic Conflict

Wazzz · Mar 9, 2009

Galactic Conflict

Well, I have set work to a new sci fi map named Galactic Conflict. Basically, you will fight head to head with opponents on various maps using one of the four races created by myself. These races are the Humans, Orcs, Hybrid and Mystics. Here's some information on the races:

Humans: Primarily using survivalistic tactics, the Humans are more than competent at setting up for a long battle and will not be easily destroyed. While they may not be the best on an offensive scale, they are great in defense and can take a hit from most strike forces.

Orcs: With a natural love for war, the Orcs go on an all out style of fighting where they simply want to wreak as much havoc as possible on the battlefield. In most instances a head on collision with an Orc army would be the downfall to even the most experienced commander.

Hybrid: A strange alien race with no known origin, the Hybrids infest the corpses of those they have conquered, providing them with new evolutions. They have conquered many unsuspecting races before, and have now set their sights towards the races that are currently at war in an attempt to further expand their race.

Mystics: Wielding some of the most advanced technology ever seen, the Mystics base their race upon religious hierarchs, most of which are sadly over zealous in the mad concept that the Humans and Orcs constant fighting has brought the new Hybrid to their galaxy. Following this belief, the once peaceful Mystics now view all races as evil which must be purged.

While the game follows the basic concept of building a base and getting an army while controlling points (such as in Dawn of War and other games with a similar concept), this map has a unique feature in itself. Back in the day of Starcraft there were no set attack/armour advantages/disadvantages. Instead, the capabilities of different units (whether it be by stats, abilities or a certain combination) dictated what they were good and bad against in a fight. This is something I wanted to implement (NOTE: I did not have Starcraft in mind at the time of having the idea, I just wanted to see if I could make units have advantages/disadvantages without worrying about the attack or armour such units have).

For example, some units are great against swarms while others are better suited to single targets. Then there are some that are better against ranged attacks than melee, and vice versa. The list goes on, and as players get used to the races, I hope that they will be interested enough to expand on their ideas and use particular ideas while playing.

Now, as I have said before, the main aim of the game is to build a base, get an army and hold control points. With that said, the Control Points are your source of income. So basically the more territory you control, the more income you will have. It's as simple as that

.

Well, I have currently completed the units of the Hybrid and the Orcs and am currently at work with the Mystics, so I would be more than happy to answer any questions about them

. Also, I am planning a series of maps, so if anyone has any ideas for a map or wants to make one, I'd be glad to take a look at them and implement the mod (but I suggest waiting till the mod is complete, that way you could see how the game plays as well as feel assured that the mod won't die

).

EDIT: Here are some better Screenies (though there's now one less

). Enjoy!

Yixx · Mar 9, 2009

I have to say: I like the idea of your own races! The control points make the game different from others. It first sounded like melee to me, but it is totaly not =D,,

The fact that you have control points as your income sounds nice, and it also gives you more then one point to defend (base). When you look at normal melee maps, you only have to defend a base (or two) but with control points you have to devide your attention to make sure all are defended well,,

The only thing i fear is that the humans and orcs will look medival in contrast to the Mystical and Hybrid

Well, as i said: I like the whole idea! =D,, now all i want to see: Preview!! xD

-Yixx,,-

BTW: If you need help, i can trigger alot for you!!

Nichita_00 · Mar 9, 2009

Seems nice. I like the idea. From what I understand, the 4 races have slightly different tactics, that being the thing that gives them bonuses/disadvantages.

Wazzz · Mar 9, 2009

Yes, the four races will indeed have different tactics. I am, however, being very cautious not to create too much imbalance (for example, the Orcs have two units designed to deal with swarms in their own different ways, so any more would make them very op against Hybrid players who want to swarm and swarm the weaker units). As I have now mentioned the Hybrid, let me tell you a little more about them:

There are 3 known main forms of the Hybrid. They are the Infector, the Hunter and the Ripper. The Hunter is designed for scouting and is also able to detect invisible units. The Ripper is designed more for fighting. The Infector, however, is the weakest unit in game, but has the capability to infest corpses to create one of 3 new infestations.

In the Sci Fi behind the map, the rest of the Hybrid creations are infestations. In other words, they were created by the Infector using different conquered races as hosts, and are now able to function as sub-races themselves. In their fight against the Humans, Orcs and Mystics, they are now able to get new infestations, but they cannot function on their own as a sub-race. However, the Hybrids have been prepared for such incidents in ancient battles long ago by having a preservation area for the corpses of fallen enemies. It is their that they keep PoW's (Prisoners of War) and infest them when they die, creating monstrosities. In the game, these structures spawn corpses which allows the Hybrid player to get their full tech-tree with corpses being the extra resource.

Glad the feedback has been good

. As I have said, the units for both the Hybrid and the Orcs are complete, so I'm currently coming up with ideas for the Humans and the Mystics (Mystics first, Humans later

).

Paku · Mar 9, 2009

Even though i dont like futuristic strategy. I would still like to see this.

Wazzz · Mar 10, 2009

Oh, and Yixx, I am definitely interested in you triggering for me

, thx for the offer! As for the map itself, it's not going to be anything like the melee game of Warcraft, but a melee game of Galactic Conflict. This is because it is its own game

.

And Paku, you don't like futuristic strategy? That's a shame, but good to see that even someone who doesn't like the genre of my idea likes it all the same. To me, that says something good about the idea

.

Yixx · Mar 10, 2009

I think you should do something now, before continueing anything else:
Make a nice terrain so the screens look better! >=D
Cause now its just sucky blizzard cliffs and grass -_-

Oh, and what is the fire above all orcs? =|

Wazzz · Mar 10, 2009

Yeah, it does look sucky ATM

. I will probably get started on the terrain soon. What's wrong with the Blizzard cliffs? Lol, they can look pretty sucky at times, so I'll probably keep them mainly to the outside but also have them in areas inside the map so that the Leaper unit from the Hybrid can go up on them

.

The fire above all the Orcs is because of the presence of their Warlord. Basically, the Warlord has an 'aura' (they are not called auras in this map) that increases the movement speed of surrounding allied units. Kind of useless unless you're charging with the units, so keep that in mind when playing as the Orcs

. Also, the Orcs can get a Mechanic leader which has Nano Bots. These Nano Bots are like a health regen. aura to allied mechanical units, so the Mechanic is pretty useless unless you have tanks and/or vehicles.

Lol, to get good terrain, I might need to ask deathhunter later and see what he can do

. Deathhunter is the shiz when it comes to terraining

.

Paku · Mar 11, 2009

Did you give up on the heroes 3 map?
This reminds me of starcraft but i like your ideas.
Im not a good map maker but if i can be of any help let me know.

Yixx · Mar 11, 2009

How far are you currently with the map? What needs to be done and what can WE do? =P
Cause i would like to help you! And i think other people also would like to, but then they first need to check this thread xD,,

Wazzz · Mar 11, 2009

The Heroes 3 map... I wasn't going to bail on it, but I haven't heard any more from Gjallarhorn, and as he was making the models and the town spawn system, that was a massive loss to the project

. But still, it gives me a chance to work on my other projects more

.

Well, you draw the comparison of the map to Starcraft, but then again you could do that to Dawn of War or any other futuristic RTS. Basically, it's a new game in itself which uses models from other games. For example, I am using the Protoss models for some of the units of the Mystic race (only the Zealot, Storm Trooper and Tasadar model. Thx killst4r, your models are stuff of legend!), but am also using models sort of based on the Eldar of Warhammer 40k and such. So, with that in mind and also other futuristic RTSes in mind, one can't help but start to draw comparisons to other games of such a genre. However, players will also see features that are unique to the game (hopefully >.<), so that should help the individuality of the project.

I have only really started the Mystics now, Yixx (was having trouble deciding whether or not to use the Protoss models

. Decided to in the end

). Hm... jobs for you... I have a few ideas for the triggers side of things in terms of spells, so that would be a great start for you, Yixx. I want a global ability for the Hybrid which is when you select a target location and a Canal Worm's head appears out of the ground (model will be the Forgotten one), spawning about 6 or 12 Rippers for the player, making it look as though they just came out of it. I want it to look as though the Canal Worm's head pops right out of the ground. I don't think this should be too hard, but I wouldn't know where to start with it

.

As for you, Paku, how are you at terraining? I could use a few extra maps at hand. If you do make them, plz keep in mind that there should be some what symmetrical places for the Control Points to be (although, of course, some maps will have some extra points in about the center which will help to decide the game

). Also, if you have any ideas for abilities and such for each race (basically, there will be a dummy hero unit that can target any where on the map to use a global ability, so I need probably about 4 unique abilities for each race. I already have a lot of ideas, but no where near enough, so if you have any cool suggestions, here's where I'll need them

), I'd love to hear them.

Another thing I'm finding difficult (and this is why I'm not doing the race ATM) is finding suitable models for the Humans. Basically, I don't really like the Starcraft Terran models (not for this map, anyway. Other than that, they're great) for the non-vehicle units, and I was thinking of maybe using the Cavman models, but are there any others out there? Haven't looked yet, but if someone else could get on to that and fix me with a link when they find something, I would greatly appreciate it

.

Paku · Mar 12, 2009

Yixx · Mar 12, 2009

Well, the ability shouldnt be too hard

You want the Head to come out of the ground, grow bigger (very fast or very slow) or just pop up?
Do you want the units to be thrown (spit) out of the head, or just spawn them with a nice effect?
And should it make 6 OR 12, or a random number between them?

Wazzz · Mar 12, 2009

That's good that the ability shouldn't be too hard

. I would like the head to comout out of the ground, but prlly just pop up, you know? Mainly cause it's a Canal Worm, so growing would be a little odd lol. A nice effect, eh? What's possible there? Do you mean like Special Effect in triggers? And as for the number, perhaps make it 12 for now and we'll see if it needs changing or not (shouldn't be too hard to balance that

).

And Paku, thx for the wide range of models! Just one thing, though, is that I don't need anything more for the Orcs (yet, anyway

). The Medkit could be handy, and I'm really loving the look of that Goblin Medic (hm... wonder if that could be an extra Orc unit? I love the model, but prlly shouldn't make a new unit just to include it lol, though I'll definitely dl it and keep it in mind

). Thx again!

UPDATE: I was thinking for not a very long time at all that a cool feature to have would be, Control Points aside, Drop Zones. Basically, the Drop Zones are just like any Control Point in that you must control them to gain tactical advantage, but the Drop Zones are for providing more population rather than extra resources. So, there will be another reason to control more points, along with a bit of variety (to be frank, just one thing to control for the same reason is a little, if not very, boring

)

. Well, now for the important factor: What do you guys think of this new feature?

Paku · Mar 13, 2009

I think that the canal worm should just pop out with a nice special effect and be stunned for about 2 seconds

As for the drop zones i think that maybe you should make a command center where you can choose what you summon to the drop zone. And you could choose from different type of units and maybe even summon resources from the main base to the battlefield. And maybe not share the resources through out the map but make them carried by tanks or vehicles (for the orcs and humans)

Edit: I could send you some terraining samples if you like.( but i dont know if i could make good futuristic terrain)

Wazzz · Mar 13, 2009

Perhaps I did not make myself too clear. The Drop Zones (I may come up with a different name to avoid confusion) simply increase your population limit. They don't recruit units or anything like that, they just provide extra population. And how do you mean share the resources? I am confused about that lol.

Yeah, some terraining samples would be great, thx! It doesn't really matter about the 'futuristic' terrain, cause basically they're all set on different areas of different planets and such. For example, one map could be a desert planet while another could be snowy. The list goes on. Also, there will be some planets that are sort of like Earth in that it has a variety of terrain, not just one set one because of it being too close or too far from a sun at any given point. The main point of the story is that you want to control the sectors of a planet so that you can mine the resources found there and such.

Yeah, that's what I thought the Canal Worm should do, though the stunning would be an interesting factor. As for the special effect, what could we use for that? I know that the birth animation of the model in particular (reminder: the Forgotten One) has dirt come up around it, so that could even be the effect for the popping out of the ground. Perhaps the Forgotten One could be a dummy unit with the Locust ability and just get spawned for a bit? Then a trigger creates the units that come out with a nice effect of sort of greeny goo or something and sort of look as though they are either bursting out the Worm or simply coming out. How's that?

Paku · Mar 13, 2009

What i mean by not share recources through out the map is that you make objects as resources and you would have to move them near a place so you could build. So you cant build a metal tower without having metal near that place. And you would have to move them with a vehicle. But it might be annoying.

Yixx · Mar 13, 2009

I like the Drop Zones idea =D,, it gives you a reason to go out and explore (Along with Control Points),, so you wont be placing your base at one point, get some surrounding control points and isolate yourself,,
I like the idea =D

Paku, i would like to see some of your terraining at least, if you just upload on the thread,, it would be nice

Paku · Mar 13, 2009

My terraining.

I made a sample in about 20 minutes. Take a look at it.
I'm still noob. Any hints would help me a lot.

Yixx · Mar 13, 2009

I think you should make a screenshot and upload it

(Will be easier to watch for us)
Make sure you have a nice fog and so on

EDIT: The terrain is really nice!
Good things:
1) You used a vary of tiles, good!
2) Doodads (Like plants, rocks etc.) placed near trees, hills or just in groups, Great!
3) Use of alot doodads, Super!

Improvements:
1) Use hills, now the terrain is flat (only the river not) (Remember: Rocks are NEVER flat, rocks Always have to have height difference, or they have to be a hill, just flat rocks wont look very realistic)
2) Use Fog, it gives a nice effect!
3) Use Weather effects to play with happy/sad terrains
4) Play with sizes of doodads, for example, A Big log in a forrest with small/thin trees wont be very realistic, just play with it and look whats best,,
No futher improvements, it looks great!

Wazzz · Mar 14, 2009

The terrain is great! My only criticism is from the size of the map, but you even managed to space it out quite well for such a small size. Nice job!

Well, I think you are really underestimating yourself there, Paku. You may be new to the terrain thing, but you sure are good at it. I would be more than happy for you to create some map terrains for this mod! I think you'd be great at it!

Well, I might as well set a certain style of terrain for the first map to see what you come up with. I want a 4 player Desert map where each player starts in a different corner. I want there to be plenty of space for building a base (naturally

) and for there to be cliffs with boundaries over them surrounding the entire map (you could add an entrance, but just be sure to boundary it off. I don't want players to be able to make their Leapers go outside of the so-called battlefield

). Apart from those open instructions, I'm trusting the rest of the details and such all to you, as you have proven yourself more than capable of making a great terrain

. Good luck!

Paku · Mar 14, 2009

Hehe

Thanks for the advice! But i have one question. How do i make fog?

{EDIT}
I have some questions.
Will i make the map 96x96? Will i place trees?

Edit: I could also use a good cliff model. It would help me a lot becouse blizzard cliffs arent good. Or some advice how to make good cliffs.

Wazzz · Mar 14, 2009

For Cliffs, just layer them up around and perhaps add doodads to them to make them look good. Remember, they'll be under a boundary, anyway, so they only need to look remotely good in comparison to the rest of the map

. Well, to me, anyway, the Blizzard cliffs look fine when used well, so trust your instincts on this one ;D! If anyone else has a better suggestion for a cliff, plz let us know

.

Well, how much space is there in 96x96? If you don't think it's enough (which it prlly won't be), go for 128x128 or even one more up

. Just as long as there's plenty of space to play on, I'll be happy. The placement of trees won't interfere, so they'd be a great addition to where you think necessary. Just so long as if they take up a wide area they don't have too many gaps

.

And finally, hello Doom_Sheep! Glad you're interested in the idea! Yes, I will try and get the Beta up and running ASAP, but I think the bulk of the project is the units. Basically, there will be a lot less of an emphasis on base building, but a lot more on expanding. One of the most useful buildings will more than likely be the turrets with which you can hold points more effectively. Other than that, it's just 1 or 2 buildings for units, 1 or 2 for research, a main building and possibly a limited building for your second resource (I'm still yet to decide what to do with the second resource. One idea is that it increases with each enemy unit you kill depending on how much population that unit took and can then be used for researches [researches are just novelties that unlock units in your tech-tree]).
With that in mind, while you play control points rather than speed tech! Lol, it will be better in the long run! You might want better units before you compete for locations, but if you get Control Points early on you'll have more resources in the long run!

Yixx · Mar 15, 2009

Ill look forward on playing the Beta =D,, that gives me an idea of how it is going to be! (cause now it is all a little vague to me xD)

@ Paku: Fog is under Scenario>Map Options

But what i am thinking eh: Will it be like: You get a control point, and buildings in 5000 AoE will give resources to you?, or Just that only that building gives you resources then? =\
well, anyways, i look forward to the Beta =D

Zelda.Alex · Mar 16, 2009

Hey Wazzz
Did not hear about the HoMM map
Paku told about this
Haven't played futuristic sci-fi much but will see this
I ask many questions & i like to point out mistakes. Remember that while reading this.

first thing. I found this link. While creating this map it can prove useful.
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/f278/world-editor-faq-work-progress-7239/

You used this

Well, I have set work to a new sci fi map named Galactic Conflict. Basically, you will fight head to head with opponents on various maps

What's with the various maps? Is it a group of maps you are thinking about?

What will be the kind of map? Survival /defense or other?
Will i be able to play it in single player?
Use AI if you can. Just because if it is a multi player map it be playable in single player too. It may help in increasing its appeal.

Humans. Hey if you use only survivalist tactics then how will this hold for humans?

you will fight head to head with opponents on various maps using one of the four races created by myself

Thought about this?

Orcs. They will have an excellent offense. So i think it will be most suited for attacks. Unbalanced? Thought about this?

Hybrid. This is new to me.
You used this.

A strange alien race with no known origin, the Hybrids infest the corpses of those they have conquered, providing them with new evolutions

Evolutions? Consider it necessary to find a good animation for the evolution you are thinking about. Otherwise you will most probably be bombarded with complaints that it doesn't look like evolution.

Mystics.
You have given them the technology, then what about humans? What will they be using? swords, axes? that i think will be reserved for orcs. would these be?

I will go on adding to this after reading further through the posts on this thread.

For example, some units are great against swarms while others are better suited to single targets. Then there are some that are better against ranged attacks than melee, and vice versa. The list goes on, and as players get used to the races, I hope that they will be interested enough to expand on their ideas and use particular ideas while playing.

Could you explain that particular thing? What ideas? will the players be able to use different combination s or what?

Now, as I have said before, the main aim of the game is to build a base, get an army and hold control points. With that said, the Control Points are your source of income. So basically the more territory you control, the more income you will have. It's as simple as that .

The red one.Would that thing not pose a problem? the problem i think will be---if someone just starts controlling many in beginning then he will have a lead. An idea---put some guards, creeps anything which will be somewhat difficult in beginning but as game progress they seem easy.
The yellow green one. Building base? like in the wc3 campaign or some other idea?

Why not place screenshots of the units in first post?

The present screenshots look lame :slp:

There are 3 known main forms of the Hybrid. They are the Infector, the Hunter and the Ripper. The Hunter is designed for scouting and is also able to detect invisible units. The Ripper is designed more for fighting. The Infector, however, is the weakest unit in game, but has the capability to infest corpses to create one of 3 new infestations.

The 3 new infestations will be according to the 3 other races or the present 3 known forms of hybrids? This was the evolution about which you wrote earlier?

In the Sci Fi behind the map, the rest of the Hybrid creations are infestations. In other words, they were created by the Infector using different conquered races as hosts, and are now able to function as sub-races themselves. In their fight against the Humans, Orcs and Mystics, they are now able to get new infestations, but they cannot function on their own as a sub-race.

why cannot act as a sub-race? could you explain that thing?

In the game, these structures spawn corpses which allows the Hybrid player to get their full tech-tree with corpses being the extra resource.

The spawning will be like the undead corpse spawning or some different idea? Thought about some ideas for the other 3 races like this one?

The Heroes 3 map... I wasn't going to bail on it, but I haven't heard any more from Gjallarhorn, and as he was making the models and the town spawn system, that was a massive loss to the project . But still, it gives me a chance to work on my other projects more .

So this is what happened. so it is suspended till you find someone or you gave up the idea?

However, players will also see features that are unique to the game (hopefully >.<), so that should help the individuality of the project.

Like what?

so I need probably about 4 unique abilities for each race

I don't know about making abilities but can help with idea.
For the humans. You can do this kind of ability.
Some clouds appear. Then a beam comes from them. and then you can have any effect like a Big Golem like something appears from ground or something else.

Regarding the Drop point giving population. Yeah that's a good idea. I agree it is too boring to have to control a place for simply one thing. It becomes more interesting if there are some more things.

One of the most useful buildings will more than likely be the turrets with which you can hold points more effectively.

Make the turrets somewhat costly otherwise the players will make too much.

This much i got in my mind till the last post. Will ask/suggest on further progress surely.

I will like to play beta. It sounds interesting. Remember to have a testing in the map development section before submitting. bounty hunter2 & Rui are checking the map section. You don't want the map to be rated below 2 surely.

See the link in signature too. no one is using it.

Wazzz · Mar 16, 2009

Basically by sub-race I mean that the infestations are a part of the hive, but cannot thrive on their own. Take the Leapers for example. The Leapers are infestations of a conquered race. However, if they were left on a planet by their own, they wouldn't be as strong as they are with the rest of the Hybrid swarms. Perhaps sub-race was an incorrect term here

.

As for balancing, I work through each unit, making sure it's balanced while succeeding in what it is meant to do. As it is difficult to make every unit of every race 100% balanced without the races being complete, I plan to completely fine-tune it with helpful feedback from Beta testers (you seem to be incredibly helpful in particular, Zelda

).

As for the races being balanced, they are, in a weird way, balanced while being unbalanced. Let me explain it in another way. Each race has its own defined strengthes and weaknesses. For example, the Orcs are great at head-to-head battles and ultimately rely on decimating their enemy with little, if any, micro-management. Their unit positioning is not as important as the Hybrids. One thing I have noticed is that the Hybrids can be very, very powerful when they have their units positioned correctly. For example, a whole line of Rippers would fail epically if they carelessly charged a group of Orc Brawlers (Brawlers have a Cleaving Attack ability, making them great against hordes but terrible against single targets). However, if you were to surround them and keep your Rippers spread out, the Brawlers could be picked off one by one to great effect.

You say I have given the Mystics the technology as though guns don't exist for other races

. I said they have the best technology, I think, and if I did not, then I am saying it now

. Basically, they have capabilities such as teleporting, creating illusions capable of dealing small amount of damage (this is in the case of the Prophet), energy nets and small details like that. Ironically, their great technology replaces survival tactics and once they are on their cooldown path with their chargeable abilities, they will be at their most vulnerable.

Do not worry about balancing of races, as I am making sure each race is unique while it does not dominate. Basically, the only thing that would make a race dominate another race is superior tactics on the part of the player. I for one would probably go for micro-managing Hybrids or survivalistic tactics for the Humans. The Orcs will be a great race for beginners and would be effective when used by the right hands, but I haven't got those hands, meaning I most likely wouldn't be able to expand upon my Orc tactics to dominate the battlefield.

Speaking of the Humans being survivalistic, that just means that they can draw a fight on for longer than usual and are a little better at holding a point. The Orcs would be able to decimate them if they came in close, the Hybrid would be able to surround them effectively and the Mystics would be able to destroy them as well with the right micro-management.

Yes, I am planning a series of maps, not just the one (playing on the same terrain would get dull

). It is a futuristic RTS mod where you control points and hold them against enemies. And you say what if a player goes out and gets an advantage by holding points early. Well, that would just mean they have more points, it wouldn't necessarily mean that they are better off. And besides, holding early points would be key, anyway (there would be one or two as a minimum near your base to get you started), so a player who goes out and focuses on controlling as many points as possible really early would be a wise player. However, that tactic does have its weak points. Spreading out your units to perform such a task would leave you open to ambushes and such. Also, I'm thinking of making it so the builder units are the only ones that can get control points.

I would be able to create AI (as there is an easy feature in the World Editor), but creating good AI would be a different story altogether. You see, controlling the points is essential in the game, but how would you get the AI to deliberately do that? Also, they would not effectively manage their units (the Orc AI would most likely dominate as it requires the least amount of micro-management). If anyone can create AI that would be great for this and happens to swing by this thread, plz let me know. I would be very interested to see what you can do.

Essentially, my hopes for this project are high (I'm thinking a campagin would definitely be a possibility once the actual mod is done), but for now I am still working on units. Once they are done, there is a limit on buildings, so they shouldn't take too long. Next would be the upgrades which are required to progress through the techtree, then I would just have to polish it off with a few triggers for the Beta to be ready (oh, and creating the terrain for the Beta would help, although I could use Paku's product when he's done

)! For the Beta, I'm not planning on including the racial abilities unless I feel I have plenty of time (I don't want to keep you guys waiting too long for it

), but whether I do or don't include them in the Beta does not matter too much as they will definitely be in the final product (before that, even

).

And Yixx, you simply have to control the points (which will be units) to gain the benefits. Veeery easy to get into (or so I imagine

). Well, the Mystics are taking a little while to come up with, but the units I do have figured out are getting worked on to a great extent. There is a minimum of about 13 units per race including leader units (leader units are limited to one of each kind per player. I'm thinking that the Hybrids will be the only race to have only one leader unit). And I hear you about the Beta, it's something I'm looking forward to as well! XD

Zelda.Alex · Mar 16, 2009

Wazzz making it campaign will be very nice. As you have said playing on same terrain will be boring.
Also i edited the earlier post after you posted. So you might want to see the last part.
I am not good at map making. I am only doing map testing & taking part in debates here & there till now at least.

How was the link on top of the post?

Wazzz · Mar 16, 2009

The link? It's helpful for beginners, without a doubt, but nothing I haven't learnt in my time of tinkering with maps and what not (sorry). Not a bad link, though, as Ralle makes very good points that I agree with (he makes good points which is why he is leader

).

Turrets! My thoughts exactly! I was also thinking of limiting their number to about 6 or so, making it very important to place them wisely. They will cost a fair amount, too, making it so you have to manage them well in between getting more military and attempting to control more points.

As for extra features, some are just ideas floating around, so I will keep them a secret till I am certain I want them (sorry again

). One thing I will tell you about is a very simple yet awesome kill count system. Basically, each unit will have an icon that displays the number of kills they have done in a fashion that both friend and foe can see. Further than that I will keep to myself for now as I want it to be a surprise to all who see it. Personally, the idea is exciting and I am looking forward to implementing it

.

The only reason I'm making it so that the Hybrid player gets corpse producing buildings is because 3 of the Hybrid units are planned to require corpses and as they cannot infest other Hybrid units, it would be unfair for players to miss out on 3 techtree units just because they're fighting another Hybrid player.

About the 3 new infestations, I am talking about completely different Hybrid units to the Infectors, Hunters and Rippers. They are created by infesting corpses on the battle field, showing that the Hybrid race are able to evolve several different evolutions from the same body structure. As they are trying to conquer races that are all humanoids, I think the sci fi will tell tales of fallen collections of races, one such looked a little like spiders with notable differences and such. As for other races, they do not really need such a feature, but I think some level of difference in their buildings or how they get units could be seen to. I will definitely think about it.

Well, as for abilities, I have a few ideas for now. The Humans, for example, will, as I have said before, be able to get Drop Pods out of the sky, causing some of their basic infantry units to come out of the sky. Another would be a sort of off-map artillery strike. I'm going to have the Mystics have a sort of big storm type ability that causes damage to all units in an area (including your own) for a short amount of time. For the Hybrids, I have the Canal Worm idea. The Orcs have... nothing yet, but I might move the artillery strike to them. Anyway, it's still in the air ATM.

About the campaign, there will be one for each race where you must walk through different tales and such. They will be in different times and such and the history will store up. I think they will be presented chronologically, but the stories will not be towards the same ending. The history will continue forwards, that is for certain, but different complications and such will make this campaign different to that of Warcraft or Starcraft. There will be melee maps for the mod, too (which is actually the first step despite me making it sound like the second

).

Yixx · Mar 17, 2009

Well, as i am really lazy i havent read the WHOLE posts above, but the essentials i have read,, =P

For the abilitys, i might have an idea =D:
Ever played Gears of War? You can get a weapon that uses extemely long to aim and get ready to be used, but it makes and extremely powerfull laser coming out of the sky,, (using some space ship i thought)
Maybe you can use it,,
(This is how it works, you see a small light coming from the sky, this is where you aim with, when you click use, it wont hold still, you still have to aim at the point, but slowly more beams will spawn and get to the point you aim at, and once it is big enough, it will roast every unit within it! =D)

Well for the orcs, i might have an idea,, but i have to think bout it little more,,

P.S. i am not good at making huge posts, so dont expect any from me! xD

Wazzz · Mar 17, 2009

Hehe, I've thought of something like that laser, but got the idea from a different game. In Command and Conquer, they have the Ion Cannon. Sounds like they are pretty much 100% the same

. I've thought about it, and think it could work with the Mystics, but I was hoping for them to have a sort of Storm ability that causes damage in an area. As for the Storm, I have a cool way of doing it. Basically, I just base it off of the Tornado ability and make it the Tornado is the storm with a damage aura that effects everyone and the Locaust ability

Zelda.Alex · Mar 19, 2009

Wazzz about the computer controlling the points.
If it cannot be done by AI why not use triggers? Like making a trigger that when computer has enough of some units+some buildings then it goes to the control point. If you make building something near them by the players the condition for controlling them it may be possible.
I don't know if possible but the idea popped in my head so though will tell you.

Wazzz · Mar 19, 2009

Hm... well, it's a thought, and all great ideas begin with such, so I appreciate it. I'm not to sure how I'd do that, though

. Perhaps (and this is a really big perhaps) the control points would count as 'creeps' to the AI and be targeted by them. That way, the AI would 'creep' them down

. However, when it comes to player owned points, they'd have to somehow count as expansions so that they would attack them often. You know, I think I may be on to something, and it's all because of your thought. Thanks buddy!

Yixx · Mar 21, 2009

We could try to make an AI that checks for near uncontrolled/controlled by other control points,
I can do quite some things with triggers, so making an AI shoulnt be too hard!

But what more can be implented in the project? The main thing is set, but there will probably be much more things you can implent, like the drop zones idea that popped up,, maybe anyone has more ideas?
I personally think it would be awesome to just implent a nice uber zone somewhere,,
It gives you extra food (or whatever) and also resources,,
Maybe it would have been a big factory once, which you can now use as other things,,
Every race can use it different, Hybrids can use the corpses to make new creatures,,
Orcs can make new weapons of the steel there (or so)
Humans can use the technology to make upgrades for their weapons/tanks whatever
And mystics,, they can do something else xD,,

Zelda.Alex · Mar 22, 2009

Well what Yixxx said i liked.
I have another idea. What if some neutral creeps spawn & attack the bases of the 4 races. That will be fun that besides fighting the other players we have to take care of the creep raid on camps too. Well the creeps can be summoned depending on the stage of advancement of the races.

Yixx · Mar 23, 2009

A question:
Are all races going to use the same resources?
Cause i can understand that orc and human have same (Wood, Steel and Food)
But hybrid, i think, dont need metal or food, they need corpses and so on,,
Just a thought i had,,

Wazzz · Mar 23, 2009

Interesting question, Yixx. I really just planned to have the same resources for all races (simply Credits, Power and Population [possibly use name other than Credits

]). When it comes to the Hybrid, they can also use the corpses. Perhaps they'd only have Power? Like, making Credits just a novelty that is there, that sort of thing

.

As for creep camps, that would be fun, especially if they were controlled by some weak AI so they caused minimal yet existent conflict

. The bases of the 4 races? Surely you mean simply all the players, as the maps will have varying numbers of max players and will allow you to choose your race

.

Hm... perhaps there could be terrain specific races, just sort of neutral freelancers, like Anti-war Orcs lol. Could be a possibility. I'm also thinking that neutral animals would prlly be better, like if you were to play on a Desert map, there would be Sand Worms crawling underground, attacking your units one by one while underground

.

Anyway, like Yixx said, it's all an idea in process. While the main part is pretty well set, there are yet to be other aspects to make it more complete. So plz, people, don't be afraid to post your ideas. And even if you don't really have any ideas, post your thoughts on what has been said so far, or just tell me what you'd like to see and such.

Come on, people, I'm sure Yixx isn't the only one with ideas. After all, this is a development thread, but the ideas I'm receiving are somewhat minimal.

Paku · Mar 24, 2009

What about travelling creeps/vendors. So that a bunch of creeps or vendors pass through the map. And you can attack/buy things from them. And for the trigger maybe:
every 60 seconds of the game choose a random number from 1 to 20 and if number equal to 1 then make vendors/creeps

I hope u get the idea.

Zelda.Alex · Mar 26, 2009

I like Paku's idea.

Some Idea
>How about some random disasters happening in the map. Like a small earthquake or lightnings if possible. This will make it look as if nature's active too. But don't make them too symmetrical. Meaning that they should not happen to all of the players at the same time otherwise it won't look random.
>how about some bounty givers? They give resource for creeping. You are going to make group of maps so there can be a bounty giver shop in some of them or each of them which gives quests for killing creeps here & there. The creeps spawn when they gives quests. Make the creeps strong so it may become slightly difficult.

Wazzz · Mar 26, 2009

Hm... I'm not so sure about vendors, as there will be no heroes

. If they were to be included, there are still 2 factors that I can't seem to get around, excluding the lack of heroes:
1) What exactly would they sell? Would it be items, units, something...?
2) It would seem almost 100% random for a vendor to just appear in the middle of a battlefield. It works in Warcraft prlly because we know no differently, but this mod is more closely tied with Starcraft, and as they are battles on various planets (the maps won't be based on the same planet), it would just be... weird

As for the environment effects, I like the idea

! However, if they appeared in different areas and were things like little earthquakes and such, it would make the game more chance based rather than strategic. As I am aiming for strategic, it might not work. However, expanding on that idea, perhaps there could be different covers, like you go to heavy cover and get an armour bonus, or you go to higher ground and get minus armour... things like that.

Also, I've seen in a mod and a map such random weather events that were global, in that it would start raining, causing all units to have lower speed, or the sun would shine, increasing health regeneration. Perhaps on certain planets, there would be certain weather events. But that would be really fishing for an excuse to put it in.

Overall, I like the idea of the random weather effects, but can't think of a practical way to include it

. Does anyone have any ideas to expand on that, or how it could be put in? Cheers for the suggestions, Paku & Zelda

Zelda.Alex · Mar 27, 2009

About the vendors. You can change them into travelers then who have resources. They don't have to appear in between the battle ground. Whenever they appear a message goes regarding their appearance to all players. Then it will be a matter of strategy how to make sure that there are units near to them as soon as the players can to get resources.

About the random environmental effects. I have one idea.
You can have some control points near some places giving more resources than usual but are prone to such environmental effects.
>Like a control point near a mountain gives more but there is a chance of landslides due to which the turrets get destroyed or damaged & guards get killed or injured so the place will be difficult to control due to lack of proper defense.

Of course the global effects will also be nice. And the cover idea will make better strategy too.

Wazzz · Mar 27, 2009

Hm... I'm still sceptical about the vendors

. Do you mean to say they'd be control points appearing randomly across the map? Although I could see how it would work, I still think I'd have to say no to it sadly enough...

As for the idea of how to do environmental effects, I think that is actually one of the best things I've heard so far

. I like the idea of landslides ocurring near mountains. And perhaps on snowy maps it would be an avalanche or something

. However, killing all guards could be seen as a little op, but the realism of it would actually make it worth doing. Perhaps in swamps units could move slower, too, in order to display the boggy water and such. Nice job!

Any other ideas, anyone? As for the cover, I think that shall be used, but if we are doing environmental effects like you suggested, then I'd rather the 'cover' be reffered to as an environmental effect, too. That is because we are making them so they are different locations on the map. As for global effects, I'm not so sure they'd fit in too well, just my original interpretation lol.

Zelda.Alex · Mar 27, 2009

About the vandors. You were taking them as control points? No. A caravan of people who are travelling through the map.

Example(not related to map)Like if 2 nations are fighting that does not mean that other people no longer go through their lands. Others do.

What Paku suggested was such people going through these places. He used vendors meaning they are people who sell. But as it will be a problem as to what they would sell make them just travellers who have resources but can be attacked to obtain these resources.

Any other ideas, anyone? As for the cover, I think that shall be used, but if we are doing environmental effects like you suggested, then I'd rather the 'cover' be reffered to as an environmental effect, too. That is because we are making them so they are different locations on the map.

I agree.

As for global effects, I'm not so sure they'd fit in too well, just my original interpretation lol.

>Why do you think they would not fit in?
>They will make some good strategy base.
>don't give up on this idea soon. Wait for Yixx & Paku. They may have some solution to offer to the reason you have.

EDIT:
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/f267/ultimate-terraining-map-31859/
The map present on this thread is giving many models & icons (According to thread). It can be useful. Take a look.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/f283/how-create-full-working-custom-race-119435/
This may help in creating races maybe

Paku · Mar 27, 2009

About the global weather. When the sun is shining everyone has increased health regenaration or health. This could be a little advantage for some race and the other races could be more aware and a little defensive. This would make the race use the little advantage and attack. Yet the advantage would be little so the other races wouldnt die so easily. And also you could make a control point where u can see what weather it would be tomorrow.

Wazzz · Mar 29, 2009

ATM, I'm thinking that including Global Weather effects and Vendors could be a little too much. However, I am glad that I am getting so many ideas in response! As they say, the more the merrier! While not all ideas will get in, it's great to have so many options

NEWS: A Beta is on its way! For now, it will only include the Orcs and the Hybrid (as I have got rather stuck on the Mystics ATM :S), but will include all the aspects of play I promised in the Beta (which, as readers may or may not remember, excludes the Global abilities for each race for now).

Paku · Mar 29, 2009

A beta is good news.We are making progress. I'm almost done with the desert planet but it still needs balancing, a name and some bug fixing (probably).I'll send u the map when i see u on msn.

Yixx · Mar 29, 2009

Global weather effects seem really nice to me! Also those regional effects (landslides, slow movement in mud/swamp) Seem nice to me!
It might be an idea that you have control points which give you the ability to train units,, i mean that you dont train units in the control point,, ill explain:
A library, full of technology, gives you the ability to train better tanks, or gives the tanks an upgrade, extra weapon, something like that,,
As soon as your library gets caught by the enemy, you cant train tanks anymore with this upgrade, but your current tanks that do have the upgrade keep it!
something like that?

Oh man! I totaly forgot you requested that Hybrid ability! xD
Im gonna make it tomorrow, might not finish it then, but ill try!

Wazzz · Mar 29, 2009

Lol about the Hybrid ability. That's fine, I know you've been busy, anyway

. I think I know what you mean, too. Sort of like how you can get extra units in the Battle For Middle Earth when you've captured particular places, right? Could work, like places to get units native to the planes. For example, the Desert could have some Nomad units while the Snowy planes could have eskimo-like units that have some useful ability, but aren't as good at combat. I'll keep that in mind

Also, I've currently constructed a new capturable building. Basically, it's a Power Source, where you can build on top of it to get extra Power (if you are not Hybrid), or to get extra corpses (if you are Hybrid). I'm not so sure about this idea, but think that the idea would be handy and am thinking a different name would be required. Either that, or I could expand on Yixx's idea like this:

You are able to capture buildings that produce units, but instead of gaining access to those units, the Hybrid get a corpse-preserving building. This would be to show that you have conquered the building and are now able to infest the corpses of those units. I'm not sure about expanding on the idea like that, as it would most likely cause balancing issues. I like Yixx's idea how it is for now. But I would like to hear ppl's arguments for and against what I just suggested

Now, that is indeed good news, Paku, thx for the help

. I think the thing that will take the most time with this Beta map would be me recreating the Advanced settings all over again >.<. It will be the biggest problem of every map. With that in mind, I'll most likely need to write a list of what needs to be changed in order to simplify things

.

Also, do be sure to check out my new thread on the Realms of Magic. It's another RTS with a more slow-paced structure where your choices dictate how well your race strives. Check it out, you might be interested

HFR · Mar 29, 2009

You can ask for Lord_of_Sausage to make the AI and other triigers, like abilties.

Wazzz · Mar 29, 2009

Hm... I like the idea of having a couple of ppl on the triggering... that would get the flow of the project going a little faster...

Nice idea, there, HFR! I must see about getting Lord of Sausage

HFR · Mar 29, 2009

Well, I can't help you as I'm working in Pokemon RPG, because I have lots of things to do, and I can't connect everytime. I hope you understand...

Galactic Conflict

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