Frost Soul

[Moderator]

2016-04-10

Rufus Review Map Score Gameplay: 8 / 30 Aesthetics: 10 / 20 Total: 18 / 50 Rating Chart 45-50 5/5 Highly Recommended 35-44 4/5 Recommended 25-34 3/5 Useful 15-24 2/5 Lacking 0-14 1/5 Unacceptable Gameplay It could be argued that the current concept is too hard, thanks to the single gold mine. However, I think that there should exist one of every possible type of melee map. Basic melee requirements: The creep camps are balanced. The middle camp is very strong. Even though it is guarding a big price, this could use some nerfing. The items the creep camps drop are balanced. Middle camp has too big item rewards. No player has a positioning advantage. All players do not have the same creep camps available to them. The cornor bases has access to two small creep camps, while the middle ones have none. Also, the base sizes are not quite the same. The gold expansions gold amount are balanced. Kind of. This is the maps concept, so it is acceptable. Plenty of large open areas that allows for epic battle clashes. This map has very cramped pathways in general, making it hard to do any real fights. Even the scorpion pits had a crystal in the middle of them, leaving no chance of a relaxed battle here either. There are no real battlefields but in the very middle, resulting in mostly frustrating fights where you block off your own units, making the fights really messy. The dragon whelp camps has no real reason being at their locations. They can't drop items, they don't give much gold and heroes can't reach them unlessed pulled closer to the land. they are basically just a light damage blocker for aerial units that won't cross their path anyway. The base camps are too small. Some of the bots blocked themselves off with their buildings, making them unable to reach the middle. you also placed decorative iceblocks here and there in the bases, which cramped them even more. Aesthetics The terrain is decent, with a few questionable choices. The center area is pretty undecorated in comparision to the rest of the map. You could use more doodads here. It is important that you don't use up much more space though, since the pathways are minimal already. The rest of the map is not outstanding in general, but does its job. I like the scorpion pits. Bugs The bots blocks themselves off due to the small base area. Summary The map has too many issues in its current state, and can not yet be approved. You could check in with the melee nation, and ask their opinions aswell. Status set to Awaiting Update.

old

15:43, 6th Apr 2016
Ardenian:
An interesting King of the Hill concept. The limited place around the expansion
gold mine requires careful deployment of town halls and defense structures.

Is there a particular reason why you decided to protect this map ?
You credit the tool, but please also note it is protected.

The neutral buildings are heavily unbalanced. Remember each player
should, in the best case, have the same distance to each neutral building.

12:20, 9th Apr 2016
Ardenian: There are two points I would like you to think and work on.
Firstly, the gold of the mines are quite low.
I estimate you could rebuild your army maybe around three times to full size before it is game over for you, as your gold runs out.
You could think about increasing it, maybe to 12,5k or 15k.
Remember that's the only gold mine the players can get,
since there is only one expansion one, if they don't kill another player.

Secondly, the creep groups in the middle are too close to each other.
Some others are called when you attack one.
No creep group should call another.
You could also think about whether four red creep groups might be a bit strong,
even if considering how big the teams are.

 

[Deleted member 247165]

The map is quietly interesting...like a Hunters map from StarCraft....but this for warcraft ....I have been waiting for such thing!

 

[deepstrasz]

The map is quietly interesting...like a Hunters map from StarCraft....but this for warcraft ....I have been waiting for such thing!

Indeed, it has a similar design, although I think this one has more stressing factors.

 

[Strajder]

This is an interesting center-oriented, star-shaped map. In my opinion, this type of maps is more suitable for FFA than teams, which isn't to say that team play on such maps isn't possible.

The starting spots on the map are symmetrical, but the taverns could use some more balanced distribution. There are no item shops? I feel like a few goblin merchants would be nice. Tavern creep camps are not the same for all taverns - some creep camps contain only air units, which makes things further non-symmetrical.

There could be a few expansions along the way to the center, maybe near the spots where the blue whelp camps are. While I'm at them, they are also currently inaccessible for ground units and can only be pulled/killed by air units.

Since the map is protected, I couldn't check the state of the drops, but I assume you used the guide available on Hive.

Overall, a nice snowy map!

 

[deepstrasz]

This is an interesting center-oriented, star-shaped map. In my opinion, this type of maps is more suitable for FFA than teams, which isn't to say that team play on such maps isn't possible.

I had this idea in mind that it would be difficult to keep an expansion in the middle as one player when 8 people are playing the map even in a teams game. Moreover, there is only one mine in the middle which can be accessed by only 4 expansion main buildings. Although easier to defend against land units with towers, room for the expansion owner's land troops would become even scarcer.

The starting spots on the map are symmetrical, but the taverns could use some more balanced distribution. There are no item shops? I feel like a few goblin merchants would be nice. Tavern creep camps are not the same for all taverns - some creep camps contain only air units, which makes things further non-symmetrical.

I had to use doodads on the centered rim pieces of land to compensate for the lesser land of corner parts.
Placing the taverns became a problem in that other creeps might have come to help those drinking at the tavern. I didn't want to let the taverns free because of the lack of creeps in the early game.
Placing other neutral buildings would've taken more room. Land width is already a difficulty of the map. Creeps may drop very useful items.
I didn't want the map to be entirely symmetrical when it came to the late game. Usually, when reaching the middle, players would have all sorts of units to face what is there. The strengths of the dragon packs and troll & mammoth ones are pretty much the same if we consider player owned units that are able to attack air units.

There could be a few expansions along the way to the center, maybe near the spots where the blue whelp camps are. While I'm at them, they are also currently inaccessible for ground units and can only be pulled/killed by air units.

I didn't want any other gold mines. I wanted to make it have a little "King of the Hill" vibe.
The dragons that fly over water are supposed to become an inconvenience when players decide to do aerial attacks.

Now, I'm not saying the map hasn't got issues, but I wanted it to feel pretty hard to play.

 

[deepstrasz]

Changed the position of the southern Taverns (Ardenian's suggestion) so that the southern middle player would be closer to them.

 

[deepstrasz]

Increased the gold in the mines and modified the Neutral Hostile groups in the map's center as Ardenian recommended.

 

[Rufus]

Rufus Review Map Score Gameplay: 8 / 30 Aesthetics: 10 / 20 Total: 18 / 50 Rating Chart 45-50 5/5 Highly Recommended 35-44 4/5 Recommended 25-34 3/5 Useful 15-24 2/5 Lacking 0-14 1/5 Unacceptable Gameplay It could be argued that the current concept is too hard, thanks to the single gold mine. However, I think that there should exist one of every possible type of melee map. Basic melee requirements: The creep camps are balanced. The middle camp is very strong. Even though it is guarding a big price, this could use some nerfing. The items the creep camps drop are balanced. Middle camp has too big item rewards. No player has a positioning advantage. All players do not have the same creep camps available to them. The cornor bases has access to two small creep camps, while the middle ones have none. Also, the base sizes are not quite the same. The gold expansions gold amount are balanced. Kind of. This is the maps concept, so it is acceptable. Plenty of large open areas that allows for epic battle clashes. This map has very cramped pathways in general, making it hard to do any real fights. Even the scorpion pits had a crystal in the middle of them, leaving no chance of a relaxed battle here either. There are no real battlefields but in the very middle, resulting in mostly frustrating fights where you block off your own units, making the fights really messy. The dragon whelp camps has no real reason being at their locations. They can't drop items, they don't give much gold and heroes can't reach them unlessed pulled closer to the land. they are basically just a light damage blocker for aerial units that won't cross their path anyway. The base camps are too small. Some of the bots blocked themselves off with their buildings, making them unable to reach the middle. you also placed decorative iceblocks here and there in the bases, which cramped them even more. Aesthetics The terrain is decent, with a few questionable choices. The center area is pretty undecorated in comparision to the rest of the map. You could use more doodads here. It is important that you don't use up much more space though, since the pathways are minimal already. The rest of the map is not outstanding in general, but does its job. I like the scorpion pits. Bugs The bots blocks themselves off due to the small base area. Summary The map has too many issues in its current state, and can not yet be approved. You could check in with the melee nation, and ask their opinions aswell. Status set to Awaiting Update.

 

[deepstrasz]

Response to Rufus:

The middle camp is very strong. Even though it is guarding a big price, this could use some nerfing.
The point of reaching the middle is to play in a team otherwise going for an enemy base is better suited for FFA or 1v1. Defending the middle as one player is quite impossible unless it's a 1v1.

Middle camp has too big item rewards.
It should have. It's not easy eliminating that group with melee units.

All players do not have the same creep camps available to them. The cornor bases has access to two small creep camps, while the middle ones have none. Also, the base sizes are not quite the same.
The experience gained and the item rewards are balanced overall. The only difference is that the players facing the bridges will have to wait a little longer to defeat the arachnids properly but reaching the middle usually takes the same time for all players.
The base sizes were edited. I've placed doodads on the ones that have a wider patch of land to make sure the building space is almost the same for everyone. You realize that I'd have to recreate most if not the whole map to make the patches equal, right?

This map has very cramped pathways in general, making it hard to do any real fights. Even the scorpion pits had a crystal in the middle of them, leaving no chance of a relaxed battle here either. There are no real battlefields but in the very middle, resulting in mostly frustrating fights where you block off your own units, making the fights really messy.
The idea of the map is to be frustrating. Players will have to think a strategy, say, aerial units mixed with infantry. Leading 12 Knights through that environment is not ideal.

The dragon whelp camps has no real reason being at their locations. They can't drop items, they don't give much gold and heroes can't reach them unlessed pulled closer to the land. they are basically just a light damage blocker for aerial units that won't cross their path anyway.
Apart from being a nuisance for aerial attacks, they also have an aesthetic purpose.

The base camps are too small. Some of the bots blocked themselves off with their buildings, making them unable to reach the middle. you also placed decorative iceblocks here and there in the bases, which cramped them even more.
I know about the AI issue. That can't be solved unless the map will have less doodads and/or wider land patches which would result into a recreation of the map. Besides, the map can be played with and by real people.

The center area is pretty undecorated in comparision to the rest of the map. You could use more doodads here. It is important that you don't use up much more space though, since the pathways are minimal already.
I wanted the center to be more infantry friendly. If you're referring to the zone where the mine is, it's because not only a main building should fit there but also ground units should be able to pass too.

Anyways, the map is not supposed to be a ladder type. I'm not a fan of symmetry when it comes to landscapes and strategy. With that, the balance is not actually absent.

 

[Mr. Gameplay Knowledge]

Awesome.

 

[Rufus]

I'm removing your rating @Boco_Exist.
Please elaborate what is so bad with this map in order to keep that rating.

 

[Mr. Gameplay Knowledge]

I'm removing your rating @Boco_Exist.
Please elaborate what is so bad with this map in order to keep that rating.

Sorry for making you problems.

 

[Rufus]

Not a problem for me, but I don't think the author of the map likes it. :/

 

[Mr. Gameplay Knowledge]

Not a problem for me, but I don't think the author of the map likes it. :/

 

[Michael the Boombringer]

He, he he! This is substandard.

 

[Mat3uszzz]

2/10

 

[deepstrasz]

Open source released.