Feedback needed: Which variant is most satisfying as an alternate build system

[Verdun]

So in one project of mine, I want to move away from the classic warcraft "builder unit moves freely around the map and builds structures" model.

Right now I am considering the following options:

1) A spell based on Build Tiny Farm places a dummy unit ("construction site" that can be upgraded to all the different structures you need

1a) You use the spell to place a central "military base" unit, which in turn uses the undead Build ability to construct the structures around it in its limited radius

2) Every player location already comes with the dummy unit pre-placed for neutral passive, you can "buy" a structure the way you would buy a mercenary from a mercenary camp, which instantly removes the bought unit, changes the ownership of the dummy unit to you, and orders the dummy unit to upgrade to the desired structure. If your structure is destroyed, it respawns a dummy unit and that dummy unit is returned to neutral passive.

The overall aim here is that I want to have players build compact bases, not build stuff all over the map, keep tech trees small and not too complicated.

Which path seems most promising to you, or do you have an alternative idea?

 

[the.Axolotl]

This sounds a bit like the base building from Battle for Middle earth, which is a super cool direction to take a map imho.

Honestly, options 1a and 2 are going to give you a lot of unnecessary headaches I believe. The engine gets really cranky with 0 movement speed builders trying to place structures (1a), and buying dummy units (2) requires a lot of trigger overhead for something the game can actually just do natively.

Least-janky way to pull off that BFME "compact base" vibe is to use the "upgrades to" mechanic on pre-placed plots.

The flow would be:

1. The Plot: Create a custom dummy unit called something like "Construction Plot" (make sure it's classified as a structure). Pre-place these at your base locations.

2. The Tech Tree: In the Object Editor, go to your Construction Plot and find the Techtree - Upgrades Add all your base structures there (Barracks, Farm, Tower,etc.)


So I was thinking this: The player selects the Plot, clicks the Barracks icon, and the Plot just natively morphs into the Barracks using the standard build time, resource cost, and construction animations. No builders needed-zero/minimal triggers so far.

To handle a building getting destroyed and reverting to a plot, you just need one super simple trigger like:

• Events: A unit Dies
• Conditions: * (Unit-type of (Triggering unit)) Equal to Barracks (or whatever structures you have)
• Actions: Unit - Create 1 Construction Plot for (Owner of (Triggering unit)) at (Position of (Triggering unit)) facing Default building facing degrees.

---

Therefore it maintains perfectly compact bases and positions the tech tree precisely where you desire. Plus you won’t have to contend with the engine’s hardcoded AI to get it working.

---

Having said all that, I’d still try different approaches and tweaks to see how it scales/ behaves in-game.

 

[Verdun]

This sounds a bit like the base building from Battle for Middle earth, which is a super cool direction to take a map imho.

Honestly, options 1a and 2 are going to give you a lot of unnecessary headaches I believe. The engine gets really cranky with 0 movement speed builders trying to place structures (1a), and buying dummy units (2) requires a lot of trigger overhead for something the game can actually just do natively.

Least-janky way to pull off that BFME "compact base" vibe is to use the "upgrades to" mechanic on pre-placed plots.

The flow would be:

1. The Plot: Create a custom dummy unit called something like "Construction Plot" (make sure it's classified as a structure). Pre-place these at your base locations.

2. The Tech Tree: In the Object Editor, go to your Construction Plot and find the Techtree - Upgrades Add all your base structures there (Barracks, Farm, Tower,etc.)


So I was thinking this: The player selects the Plot, clicks the Barracks icon, and the Plot just natively morphs into the Barracks using the standard build time, resource cost, and construction animations. No builders needed-zero/minimal triggers so far.

To handle a building getting destroyed and reverting to a plot, you just need one super simple trigger like:

• Events: A unit Dies
• Conditions: * (Unit-type of (Triggering unit)) Equal to Barracks (or whatever structures you have)
• Actions: Unit - Create 1 Construction Plot for (Owner of (Triggering unit)) at (Position of (Triggering unit)) facing Default building facing degrees.

---

Therefore it maintains perfectly compact bases and positions the tech tree precisely where you desire. Plus you won’t have to contend with the engine’s hardcoded AI to get it working.

---

Having said all that, I’d still try different approaches and tweaks to see how it scales/ behaves in-game.

Thanks!

An added thing for that project is that it is based on territorial expansion, meaning player bases will switch hands. If an enemy player destroys your base, they should then be able to use it for themselves. Thus my musings that the dummy units could be neutral passive, so anyone could use them once they revert?

If I remove the extra wrinkle with the "buy dummy unit" step, I gotta find a smooth way to change the patch dummy to player control.
I guess one obvious way to do that would be to make the owner of the respawned patch whoever destroyed the structure. And in case someone comes across an empty enemy patch, they could attack the patch and it would flip ownership instantly... something like that

 

[the.Axolotl]

Thanks!

An added thing for that project is that it is based on territorial expansion, meaning player bases will switch hands. If an enemy player destroys your base, they should then be able to use it for themselves. Thus my musings that the dummy units could be neutral passive, so anyone could use them once they revert?

If I remove the extra wrinkle with the "buy dummy unit" step, I gotta find a smooth way to change the patch dummy to player control.
I guess one obvious way to do that would be to make the owner of the respawned patch whoever destroyed the structure. And in case someone comes across an empty enemy patch, they could attack the patch and it would flip ownership instantly... something like that

This is moving into Zone Control or Company of Heroes territory system a bit ( I like how you think, especially those games are one of my fav RTS because of the logic and mechanics);

---

The "Attack to flip" is a solid old-school mechanic, but if you want this to be AI-friendly, Proximity Capture is the way to go with this one I think.

If you give the Plot a very small "collision size" and a trigger that checks for units nearby, the AI will claim the territory just by moving its army into the area.

The BFME Way > you didn't attack the plot; you just moved a builder or hero near it and clicked. In WC3, if you make the Plot owned by the player who killed the previous building, the AI will immediately see it has a new "Worker/Building" and will start the "Upgrades To" process automatically based on its ai script.

---

From design perspective , it keeps the game fast- you kill the base, you own the land, you build your own fort on their ruins so to speak.