Eldnaar Outpost ZS v1.0

[Moderator]

20:06, 6th Mar 2009 by bounty hunter2:
AProject had mentioned a lot of problems this map has, therefor, Rejected.

Use our Map Development Forum to gather on more feedback on your map.

 

[APproject]

Review

I rate this map by 1/5 and I suggest it to be Rejected because of these twenty reasons below.

NOTICE: My rating will increase if you might improve your map by fixing these mistakes I mentioned below.

1. Instead of making an item with the description of a hero, you should use Game - Text Message appear with the description when you actually select the hero.
2. Map is protected and you didn't mention it in the description at hiveworkshop.
3. Some of heroes has too big Selection Scale.
4. Why have you created an Optional Quests for characterizing the heroes since Items nearly Circles of Power does?
5. A hero named Tyrande cannot attack units that comes closely. System says: The Target is inside the minimum range.
Since when archers cannot attack melee enemy while they are attacking it? Not logical and that brings other difficulties.
6. Again, since when unit models wielding bow are attacking like Melee ones? No logic again.
7. One minute till hero respawn is too long time period for such action. As Septimus would say: It would give a big Yawn to audience.
8. You should create an actual Quest telling what exacly players must do and what avoid instead making a FAQ Quest.
9. Pauses between waves are obviously too long.
10. No-one can know when the wave will start approaching and when entire waves will end. I suggest you to improve it.
11. The only way to destroy the Food Crate or something else that is touchable, is to press on Attack command and select the target, because you cannot attack automaticly by pressing right mouse button. It can get really annoyed.
12. Some map spots are out of doodads while others are crowded of it. Looks weird and undone.
13. As long I played I saw only Food Carates and RARELY got Lumber Bundles. That's the only way to receive an items? And still, not mixing, no new items, only monotonous ones? At least these weak hostiles should drop some items, not only bundles - not the same items.
14. As for maximum 10 level of heroes, experience gain rate is too high. Reduce the rate or up the maximum hero levels.
15. Quick Aiming spell do not have it's special effect.
16. Stock of mana.
17. Hotkey of spell named Headshot confuses with hotkey of Hold Position action.
18. There are purchasable items that do not function at all.
19. Learn-tooltip of spell named Burn contains a big mistake. When you try to learn it, learn-tooltip tells us it's name and Hotkey, but actual tooltip after learning lies. It says: Breath of Fire. Also hotkey F do not works, the right hotkey stays from learn-tooltip. You must fix the name of this spell.
20. Bundle of Lumber's description says: Gives 60 lumber to player when used. That means we must use it. And how are we supposed to use it it activity is OFF?

I could give more reasons, but I got lazy. I think 20 mistakes are enough for rejection for sure.
All reasons in one:
- Poor quality of map.

 

[padabumpadabam]

I understand your point there, maybe the map gameplay needs to be more expained. I will do that in the near future.

5. A hero named Tyrande cannot attack units that comes closely. System says: The Target is inside the minimum range.
Since when archers cannot attack melee enemy while they are attacking it? Not logical and that brings other difficulties.

Yes, the Archer and the Worker both have minimm attack ranges. If you find out though, the Archer has a slow option, and if you had read the hero description better, you would have seen that it sais that you shouldn't use this hero as a tank, but instead as a ranged damage dealer. This map is intended for team play rather than individual playing.

8. You should create an actual Quest telling what exacly players must do and what avoid instead making a FAQ Quest.

What else do I need to write in the Info tab? There is a short gameplay description there. If someone really needs to find out how to play, they would have checked that one first.

Each player has to chose one hero, each one with he's own abilities. Your job is to make sure the plagued zombies don't reach the surface.
During this time, you will need to build an outpost to defend the exit, but also scavange for resources to help you survive. Be careful though, because there is a high probability that there are many plagued zombies in the mine.

Isn't this enough? Hero have individual description aswell so...

9. Pauses between waves are obviously too long.

This isn't a tower defense map. If waves come faster, then the map will be impossible to play. The whole ideea is to search the entire map for resources, not to stand in the base waiting for something to happen. I have precisely calculated the mob spawn intervals, and this is at the middle.

10. No-one can know when the wave will start approaching and when entire waves will end. I suggest you to improve it.

Again, this isn't a tower defense map. It is a survival map. Because players don't know when the next attack is going to be, it gives a certain feeling to the game. This was made so that attacks are unpredictable and players always need to watch their back.

13. As long I played I saw only Food Carates and RARELY got Lumber Bundles. That's the only way to receive an items? And still, not mixing, no new items, only monotonous ones? At least these weak hostiles should drop some items, not only bundles - not the same items.

Lumber is dropped from trees. This is written inside the Info tab too. All trees drop bundles of lumber ( 40 ), while the Abomination and the Stalker drop Greater bundle of lumber ( 60 ).
If each mob had drops, then the whold ideea of a survival map would have been washed away, instead making place for a random hero defense map.
The ideea of a survival map is to do your best to stay alive and complete the task, while having minimum resources.

14. As for maximum 10 level of heroes, experience gain rate is too high. Reduce the rate or up the maximum hero levels.

This may be changed in the future, but again, as this isn't intended to be a solo map, experience gaining when there are at least 2-3 players is lower.

16. Stock of mana.

The low ammount of mana is intended to make heroes use their spells with care, not just spam them. I will write again : The ideea of a survival map is to do your best to stay alive and complete the task, while having minimum resources.

18. There are purchasable items that do not function at all.

Do you remember the name of these items?

20. Bundle of Lumber's description says: Gives 60 lumber to player when used. That means we must use it. And how are we supposed to use it it activity is OFF?

Greater bundle of lumber gives 60 lumber, while Bundle of lumber gives only 40. As said in the heros' description, no team can survive without a worker. This is because the Worker is the only one who can build structures and is able to use resources in order to buy items etc.
The lumber is sold at the Outpost building, giving the ammount of lumber to the Worker player.

Anyway, thanks for the review. As for the tooltip/shortcut issues they should be fixed soon.

 

[APproject]

This isn't a tower defense map. If waves come faster, then the map will be impossible to play. The whole ideea is to search the entire map for resources, not to stand in the base waiting for something to happen. I have precisely calculated the mob spawn intervals, and this is at the middle.

Again, this isn't a tower defense map. It is a survival map. Because players don't know when the next attack is going to be, it gives a certain feeling to the game. This was made so that attacks are unpredictable and players always need to watch their back.

Waves appears and it goes to the their target and when they get there, your lives that is the feature of tower defense are getting lower and lower. Why you call it not tower defense if it has it's features? Timer window with notice when enemy will appear is necessary. Players can decide to explore the map instead waiting for waves and not predictable waves might finish everything with Defeat.

The ideea of a survival map is to do your best to stay alive and complete the task, while having minimum resources.

Where's fun when after using a spell once you have to wait about few minutes till you recover mana enough to cast it once again?

Do you remember the name of these items?

Description of Warehouse says that items produced by it are useful for upgrades. The question is. How? Description of items tells us nothing. Now you'll start explaining the improtance of it, but that explain must be in game.

The lumber is sold at the Outpost building, giving the ammount of lumber to the Worker player.

This information must be in game, not in forums. In the description of bundles.

 

[padabumpadabam]

Description of Warehouse says that items produced by it are useful for upgrades. The question is. How? Description of items tells us nothing. Now you'll start explaining the improtance of it, but that explain must be in game.

No, I won't explain the importance of it cause I don't have to
Those items have no stats, but they ARE needed for upgrades. This is because if you build the Blacksmith or the Workshop, you will find out that they are part of the recipe for each higher level upgrades. That is written in each items' description ( the upgrades from the Blacksmith and the Workshop ).

Where's fun when after using a spell once you have to wait about few minutes till you recover mana enough to cast it once again?

Spamming spells is needed in Dota or Enfos type maps, not in a survival map, where you need to use everything with care.

Waves appears and it goes to the their target and when they get there, your lives that is the feature of tower defense are getting lower and lower. Why you call it not tower defense if it has it's features? Timer window with notice when enemy will appear is necessary. Players can decide to explore the map instead waiting for waves and not predictable waves might finish everything with Defeat.

I will think about it and maybe change it.

 

[APproject]

That is written in each items' description ( the upgrades from the Blacksmith and the Workshop ).

No it's not. Screenshot below.

Also I didn't see any requirament for the upgrades.

 

[padabumpadabam]

Not these items. I mean the ones at the Blacksmith and the Workshop

 

[APproject]

So what these items from Warehouse are for?

 

[padabumpadabam]

Upgrades for the original items found at the Outpost. The Blacksmith does the same for the items at the Workshop. So item levels are so:
first items - Outpost
improved items - Workshop ( requiers items from Warehouse )
advanced items - Blacksmith ( requires more items from Warehouse )

 

[Septimus]

No, I won't explain the importance of it cause I don't have to
Those items have no stats, but they ARE needed for upgrades. This is because if you build the Blacksmith or the Workshop, you will find out that they are part of the recipe for each higher level upgrades. That is written in each items' description ( the upgrades from the Blacksmith and the Workshop ).

It's no wonder this resources would be rejected at this site and wc3c.

The description are essential because it was for the user. Without it, you are just killing your map standard.

 

[padabumpadabam]

Descriptions for what? The buildings' description is "sells items used for upgrades". The other buildings have their description that sais that from there you purchase upgrades. What more can you ask for? I didn't want to make a map for those who are too lazy to read a description and to make some simple connections between them. Things that are obvious should remain as they are.
The map got rejected simply because of the first post, without the one who did it to actually experience the map.

 

[APproject]

Map's quality is pretty low, including it's description. The entire description was made really poorly and that's obvious. You blame people for lazyness? It's not their fault if the description is that low. FAQ, Help, Hero characterize etc. You're calling this the description that might be really useful and clear? It's enough to create few Quests with proper description telling what exactly players should do and what avoid, what to do with items and what to expect since waves are not predictable.