Demon's fabulous cave boss test thread!

[SaikoDeMoN]

Demon's fabulous -test thread!

***Spoilers Ahead!!!*** Boss 1

Alrighty then. Here's a replay with Box and S0ul. for LoC kill: View attachment Gaias yeti test1.w3g
Stuff we came up with:
1. The ice storm type skill seems to be leaking, around 30min in the FPS lag became unbearable for me.
2. Battering ram should be higher damage with smaller AoE - this would give players a good reason to spread out and away to avoid batter but risk not avoiding the ice storm.
3. It was really difficult to see who had frostbite on them. We think it needs a more distinct animation. IMO it should be more like a frost nova type of thing, with AoE damage and animation.
4. Would you care to explain bloodthirst? I took an 800 damage battering ram hit (not crit) after bloodthirst. Considering battering ram is unavoidable.. did you just add this in to make sure we couldn't kill the boss yet?

1.2B(12) LoC kill replay with S0ulseeker, epraikc1, O_OSamuel and Wasker0325. :View attachment Gaias 1.2B(12) Yeti Kill.w3g
Nothing really to complain about here, just posting replay if you still need data. No bashing through walls and Battering Ram performed adequately. Five players, not a difficult fight but some dangerous moments. Just as it should be for the first world boss in new area. Nicely done Zwieb.

Tried Overseer but it was pretty much a trainwreck. Is it supposed to always teleport the lowest threat hero? Bard got crushed in there (bit underlevelled but even my bard needs a potion every time to survive). Monk with 67% SR got instagib by Fel Nova at 3/4 across the room with no crits. It seems like if you don't have Divine Shield on, you're totally screwed for this fight - unfair for s0uldudu I think.

I did notice some instances though when i just ran around during Fel Nova I took no damage, weird. Seems like a bug. This fight is hard to test since it seems its balanced for Mountain gear, we'll need to go with all lvl50 english players for a chance at killing this.

***Spoilers Ahead!!!*** Boss 2

1.2B(12) Seer attempt replay with S0ulseeker, O_OSamuel, CNOOJEN : View attachment Gaias 1.2B(12) pathetic seer attempt.w3g
Alright zwieb. Still the best we could do is get to the golem phase. No idea how to beat this yet. Having to deal with the slimes bug wastes so much of our time. Also, is it really supposed to teleport the lowest threat hero? I think I asked before but you didnt answer. I can't really think of a good reason why you made it this way, the lowest threat hero is almost always going to be the one who's going to have the hardest time there, in that case the slimes are way too strong.

Bugs we'd like you to fix before next weekend's testing:

• Slimes not being removed when hero dies there. Seriously. Needs to be fixed asap. This map is turning into Dragon Quest.
• Disintegrate visual prompt
• Fel Nova completely missing units that are close to Seer
• Fel Nova sometimes missing units that are moving (RIP S0ul x20)

1.2B(14) 2 hour Seer attempt replay with S0ulseeker, EUArchangel, ihazdialup, Bleach_of_Pain, woeski: View attachment Gaias 1.2B(14) First Seer Kill.w3g
Much better deal with the slimes. I still think Seer needs more HP (~30k at least OR you could trigger a forced Mass Teleport when Seer would otherwise receive a deadly blow), but apart from that the balance looked really good. Perhaps you could stick some more HP on the golems or add a bit more damage Seer's spells. TBH it looks good to go for an official release.

***Spoilers Ahead!!!*** Boss 3

1.2B(13) Zharo kill replay with S0ulseeker, 1nsaneq1k, Simonizerx, Box_of_Faith: View attachment 152535
This fight is hella fun and seems mostly balanced as is for a world boss. Didn't notice any bugs either.

General notes on the -test bosses

• Souls DO have an impact on endgame. All the test bosses need more HP (~40k) to compensate. This will be our endgame for the foreseeable future so they should be a challenge, especially considering how much easier it will be when we get gear from them (and better soul combos (and sick mounts)).
• Bloodthirst should activate at 3-4min.
• The LoC fight is good (in terms of damage values) but now it feels way too static. It's pretty much just the whole team grouped up at one corner of the cave, with the tank sticking to the wall. There's hardly any movement necessary. I propose adding a small AoE around him in addition to the current area affected by battering ram. Feels a bit silly that melees can freely attack from behind/side during the skill.

Unaddressed Bugs:

• Zharo can't cast spells

 

[Zwiebelchen]

spoiler

Bloodthirst is the sudden death mechanic that some bosses in the future will have. It basicly just forces the players to kill it in less than a designated time frame. In this case it's 6 minutes.

The ice storm doesn't leak, but it creates hundreds of units to create this effect. I'll see what I can do to improve it's performance. Possibly use special effects instead of units.

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

spoiler

Bloodthirst is the sudden death mechanic that some bosses in the future will have. It basicly just forces the players to kill it in less than a designated time frame. In this case it's 6 minutes

I see. Good stuff.

The ice storm doesn't leak, but it creates hundreds of units to create this effect. I'll see what I can do to improve it's performance. Possibly use special effects instead of units.

Then how do you explain the fps lag? I would understand if there was lag only when a certain spell was casted and for the duration of that spell, but constant increasing lag that doesn't stop even when all units are idling scream of a memory leak somewhere.

spoiler

How about a slight movespeed decrease for simply being in the cave? This would increase the challenge of the fight without having to mess with the boss's numbers which TBH are pretty spot on right now apart from his low physical punches. It would also create some reason to go for movespeed talents which I'm sure very few people bother even considering.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

spoiler

I see. Good stuff.

Then how do you explain the fps lag? I would understand if there was lag only when a certain spell was casted and for the duration of that spell, but constant increasing lag that doesn't stop even when all units are idling scream of a memory leak somewhere.

I'll fix that spell in one way or the other. Don't worry about it. If anything, I can still rely on special effects only and get rid of this issue completely.

spoiler

How about a slight movespeed decrease for simply being in the cave? This would increase the challenge of the fight without having to mess with the boss's numbers which TBH are pretty spot on right now apart from his low physical punches. It would also create some reason to go for movespeed talents which I'm sure very few people bother even considering.

Sounds completely random and arbitrary to me. I also don't see how that would impact the encounter in any way (other than being frustrating or annoying).

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

spoiler

It's not random or arbitrary, I just feel it's weird to move around perfectly on an icy cave floor. This fight stresses positioning so having something constantly impeding movement would fit pretty well. First I thought you could make it slippery like if you try to stop moving or change direction your hero would drift abit, but that could be difficult to implement and maybe too difficult to deal with for a first boss encounter.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

spoiler

It's not random or arbitrary, I just feel it's weird to move around perfectly on an icy cave floor. This fight stresses positioning so having something constantly impeding movement would fit pretty well. First I thought you could make it slippery like if you try to stop moving or change direction your hero would drift abit, but that could be difficult to implement and maybe too difficult to deal with for a first boss encounter.

That would only make sense if I apply that to every surface with these characteristics. I can already see all the hatemails overflowing my inbox.

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

Special thanks to Jombu, Box_of_Faith and Epraikc1 for joining the hunt.

OK this fight is looking pretty good now. The jump could use more dmg or some effect like a stun, pushback or slow but if you don't want to, that's fine.

The only spell I'm still not happy with is Battering Ram. It very rarely hits secondary units even if you're standing close to the main target. I know it may seem annoying that I first said the AoE was too big now I'm saying it's too small but I just want things to be as close to the ideal as we can get it.
My suggestion: Rectangular hitbox from starting position to target (simple, but gets the job done)
Box_of_Faith's suggestion: No hitbox in path but a large circular AoE at the target position.
Epraikc1's suggestion: Cone hitbox (increasing AoE towards the target)

Every which way, the boss needs to stop as soon as it reaches the target. The way it is now, he just carries on charging a set distance and quite often gets stuck in a wall somewhere (usually the north wall is an issue).

Also, it's kind of weird how the battering ram knockback and damage takes so long to take effect. It should happen on contact not after he's finished the charge.

 

[BoxOfFaith]

spoiler

I think the damage values are actually okay. Remember we were using a currently fully geared crusader to do the tanking. Battering ram still crit'd for 450 damage. If we were to be using a monk, or a character with less health to do the tanking, that would actually hurt quite a bit. I don't think we want to design the fight around requiring a crusader.

However Battering Ram does need fixed still. It needs a better AOE path. Personally I think damage in a line is pointless, and very easily avoided, but a bit better of an AOE around the tank could be more meaningful.

The ramming part definitely needs to stop when he reaches the target, and then the knockback happens after that. Currently he seems to continue moving forward to the end point of the knockback and thats very annoying. If its possible to have a large AOE, with a bit reduced damage on the AOE, and remove the knockback to units hit in the AOE, I think that would be balanced.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Battering Ram now works how it was initially intended. That the charge stops after hitting the primary target was kind of a bug in the last version.

That he is able to charge out of the map is... kind of expected, unfortunately.
I used a different pathing check method in the last version (that was more accurate) but had to change back because this method included units in it's path.
I really need to write my own pathing check method. All I've found so far are way too inaccurate and lead to these nasty problems with the yeti and the garg.

 

[BoxOfFaith]

Are other players and the boss intended to become path blockers while in combat? Constantly needing to reposition myself as the tank is important during the fight, but I found the boss and other players work as blockades, so it was annoying needing to run around them to get into the proper position.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Player characters have always been blocking your path. Only creeps have no pathing.

 

[Jumbo]

You didn't mention the ram damage to other players though.

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

Are other players and the boss intended to become path blockers while in combat? Constantly needing to reposition myself as the tank is important during the fight, but I found the boss and other players work as blockades, so it was annoying needing to run around them to get into the proper position.

It's supposed to be that way I think. Generally in RPGs it's the other players job to identify when to move so that the tank can get into a more strategically effective position, especially the instance where the zerk completely blocked you was his fault (and mine for not calling the shot).

 

[Jumbo]

Ye I simply forgot that this was even part of the game (hero collision) since it so rarely makes any difference on other bosses due to their larger fighting areas (BM is small but ppl dont need stack as much there).

This is why I said so many times that we really need new content. Getting rusty here!

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Ye I simply forgot that this was even part of the game (hero collision) since it so rarely makes any difference on other bosses due to their larger fighting areas (BM is small but ppl dont need stack as much there).

This is why I said so many times that we really need new content. Getting rusty here!

Keep calm. It's in the pipeline. I finished everything I wanted to do before diving hard into the new content.

And yes, battle space was a huge problem in the foothills area.
I guess it's kind of the reason why the Alchemist was such a popular boss, contrary to broodmother.
Rest assured that I learned from that and made sure that the new battles will have plenty of space to fight them properly.
Also, I learned the importance of visual and audio cues.
I think all the new 1.2C bosses will have a much cleaner feel to them than the foothills and D3 ones.

 

[Jumbo]

Can't wait for them Zwieb. It's funny how this game continously makes me more excited than new TES, Fallout, Baldur's Gate expansions and what not after all these years. (6 years of Gaias - Wow!)

Also my post was in response to Demon (defending my noobiness), I didn't mean to rush your developing.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Can't wait for them Zwieb. It's funny how this game continously makes me more excited than new TES, Fallout, Baldur's Gate expansions and what not after all these years. (6 years of Gaias - Wow!)

Also my post was in response to Demon (defending my noobiness), I didn't mean to rush your developing.

Baldur's Gate Expansions? Did I miss something?

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

Siege of Dragonspear

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Siege of Dragonspear

Eh, from the makers of BG:EE?
I'm ... not amazed. The new content in BG:EE was mediocre at best. :/

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

Unless it gets seriously good reviews I'm not gonna bother with it. EE felt like a waste of time to me, around 5 hours in I was too bored/annoyed to continue. Maybe Overhaul Games will get their shit together and be more like Bioware in their approach to this series but I doubt it.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Unless it gets seriously good reviews I'm not gonna bother with it. EE felt like a waste of time to me, around 5 hours in I was too bored/annoyed to continue. Maybe Overhaul Games will get their shit together and be more like Bioware in their approach to this series but I doubt it.

I appreciate what they did in rewriting the game engine and improving the UI though, but there were fanmods that did almost the same thing for free.

 

[Jumbo]

Yeah agreed. It sounds kinda like a weak concept.

 

[0.mY.g0d]

Just to ask...isn't 129000 HP and 600 MP some kind of disproportion

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

I'm curious as to why you think the difference in HP and MP values matter.

 

[Jumbo]

I will make a map with a boss who has 1 hp and 53450384 mana. His abilities don't use mana though, but there are trigger traps all around so you will die trying to reach him. Omg Why so much mana and so little hp? :O Nerf pl0x.

 

[0.mY.g0d]

I just think a Lord of caverns should have more MP than a common caster...
Same with Alchemist btw.

It doesnt matter that much, but can you remember any Boss from Warcraft universe with a
MP - HP quotient of 0,005?!

 

[Jumbo]

I will let you reflect more on the meanings of my post.

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

I just think a Lord of caverns should have more MP than a common caster...
Same with Alchemist btw.

It doesnt matter that much, but can you remember any Boss from Warcraft universe with a
MP - HP quotient of 0,005?!

It literally makes no difference whatsoever to the gameplay or lore. He isn't even a caster, his only magic spells are

-test Spoiler

Frostbite and Shattering Glacier.

Same with alchemist, his only magic spell is Heal (the rest of his abilities are rooted in science, even heal may just be drugs).

He's in no danger of running out of MP in this fight, it's not like any hero has mana burn/break/drain, so I'm not sure why you're hung up on this.

Also, this is the Gaia's Retaliation universe not the Warcraft universe.

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

Bump. 1.2B(12) Replay in 2nd spoiler.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Bump. 1.2B(12) Replay in 2nd spoiler.

You have some successful tries on the Overseer for me? I really need input on his health numbers and the health of the golems.

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

Unfortunately that will take some time. I need to gather 5-6 competent lvl50 english players to kill this (or 4 for a decent try), probably only possible on weekends. At the very least, I've made notes for tower/golem phase so we can dive right in with a strategy this time.

 

[LittleTim]

Unfortunately that will take some time. I need to gather 5-6 competent lvl50 english players to kill this (or 4 for a decent try), probably only possible on weekends. At the very least, I've made notes for tower/golem phase so we can dive right in with a strategy this time.

5-6 competent players, meaning non casual but elite.

it had to be done.

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

5-6 competent players, meaning non casual but elite.

it had to be done.

Once again you succeed in making very little sense and contributing no useful information. Good job.

On to more interesting things... I need players who are willing to make a serious attempt at -test. lvl45+ and must have an adequate grasp on the english language (we can't build strategies if we can't communicate). Usually a player from my clan will heal/tank so we just need DPS. Reply in this thread or add me on garena if interested, we'll be playing in the gaias dungeon bot.

 

[S0ulseeker]

Hey Kam I'll be playing later today and tomorrow I'll message you when I get home from a night out, then it's leveling /testing time!

 

[SHBlade]

So guys If u need any help with testing pm me too (on garena ofc)

 

[LittleTim]

Can You Stop Me?

Once again you succeed in making very little sense and contributing no useful information. Good job.

making very little or no sense. well you can read English can't you ? "I'm sure". the post was directed at you. To provide very useful information to help you on what type of group you will be needing. (Non Casuals) once again your post was unrelated, non contributing to the previous post. and you ask for people to have a "adequate grasp on the English language?" Great Job!

 

[BoxOfFaith]

making very little or no sense. well you can read English can't you ? "I'm sure". the post was directed at you. To provide very useful information to help you on what type of group you will be needing. (Non Casuals) once again your post was unrelated, non contributing to the previous post. and you ask for people to have a "adequate grasp on the English language?" Great Job!

Make your own thread and team for beat testing bosses with casuals. Not sure why you're bothering Kamina on here. If you don't like it then just don't post and don't play with him.

Also, just because you're using words that are spelling in English, doesn't mean you're actually speaking English. Your sentence structure is terrible and the general flow of the sentences can make it very difficult to interpret what you're actually trying to say. I understand that most other languages follow a different pattern in the way they're structured, but hopefully you can understand why somebody could have a difficult time interpreting what you're trying to say, especially if it seems like you're trying to insult them in the process.

 

[LittleTim]

idk

Make your own thread and team for beat testing bosses with casuals. Not sure why you're bothering Kamina on here. If you don't like it then just don't post and don't play with him.

i'm not bothering him i'm helping him. why would I stop posting? can you make me? i dont insult people i speak truth.

Also, just because you're using words that are spelling in English, doesn't mean you're actually speaking English. Your sentence structure is terrible and the general flow of the sentences can make it very difficult to interpret what you're actually trying to say. I understand that most other languages follow a different pattern in the way they're structured, but hopefully you can understand why somebody could have a difficult time interpreting what you're trying to say, especially if it seems like you're trying to insult them in the process.

i had to try and understand what you typed for a moment. speaking of my "sentence stucture" spelling in English, doesn't mean you're actually speaking English (didnt know i was trying to speak while writing english)while posting. comparing my sentence structure to yours "ill think twice next time". as for other languages dont know how that came about "im sure i was writing in English" hopefully you can understand that people are going to have a hard time understanding your post as i did. as a canadian you might think everyone trying to insult others but im not. i want what's best for you!

your attempt to defend your friend with a rant has failed instead, shaming you heres a link for you. you should question yourself next time.

http://www.anglomaniacy.pl/grammar.htm

 

[S0ulseeker]

Please take this argument into private messages. Let's be respectful here to the forums and zwiebel and not cluster the forums with posts that simply don't need to be said.

 

[S0ulseeker]

Sorry for the double post, but I think for some proper tests on the seer boss in the tower we might need a hotfix of some current bugs and balancing adjustment to make testing much smoother to collect data with (i.e. slimes that don't despawn on failed attempt)

I still believe slimes need a slight nerfing as well, and if you don't kill them fast enough seer teleports another player as well into the slime room to fight.

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

Bump. Latest attempt added. Didn't really get far but there is some data for you to gather there.

I still believe slimes need a slight nerfing as well, and if you don't kill them fast enough seer teleports another player as well into the slime room to fight.

I'm not sure if I want slimes nerfed, but it should be changed somehow. I would rather they do (small) spell dmg or have insane ArP but low damage. It's just too difficult for non-tanks to deal with, comparatively. Also, I'm not sure why you gave them regen, what is the point of that? As far as other players getting teleported in.. I'm fine with that. It'll usually be easier to clear with another player and there should be some punishment for not clearing your own slimes quickly.

 

[Jumbo]

I'll just sit back and relax (do exams rather >_>) until a new patch is released.

 

[LittleTim]

Please take this argument into private messages. Let's be respectful here to the forums and zwiebel and not cluster the forums with posts that simply don't need to be said.

soulseeker is right. ill accept their apologies.

anyways what was max lvl? is it going to stay at 50 or continue on down to 60 ? I don't remember.

 

[cheno3556]

soulseeker is right. ill accept their apologies.

LOL

anyways what was max lvl? is it going to stay at 50 or continue on down to 60 ? I don't remember.

It's 50.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I don't intend making a hotfix for the slimes and the general overseer encounter right now; instead, I will merge it along with the update that delivers the third boss for testing.

After taking a short 2 weeks holiday I will continue working on Gaias today, hopefully releasing the third boss beta later this week, which will also be the beginning of all the additional content work like making the quests and creep content.

Btw, for this task, I want to try a new approach and want someone to actually write the quest texts from the ground-up.
I always wrote the texts myself and had someone proof-reading and correcting them; so I want to see how good this will be if I allow a certain amount of creative freedom (and just give some bullet points about what I want to be adressed in the text for each character).

So if any american or brit writer can volunteer to write quest texts for me, here is your chance!
I intend to get some voice actors back in the boat for the new content. Possibly even with the official release of the new content. So here's your chance to make your dialogue be heard (quite literally).

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

Alright then, we'll hold off on testing till next version.

What accent are you giving the new characters?

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Alright then, we'll hold off on testing till next version.

What accent are you giving the new characters?

I go with the genre conventions as in: scottish/irish for dwarves. Yuppie-english with fancy random words for elves.

 

[Jumbo]

I don't intend making a hotfix for the slimes and the general overseer encounter right now; instead, I will merge it along with the update that delivers the third boss for testing.

After taking a short 2 weeks holiday I will continue working on Gaias today, hopefully releasing the third boss beta later this week, which will also be the beginning of all the additional content work like making the quests and creep content.

Btw, for this task, I want to try a new approach and want someone to actually write the quest texts from the ground-up.
I always wrote the texts myself and had someone proof-reading and correcting them; so I want to see how good this will be if I allow a certain amount of creative freedom (and just give some bullet points about what I want to be adressed in the text for each character).

So if any american or brit writer can volunteer to write quest texts for me, here is your chance!
I intend to get some voice actors back in the boat for the new content. Possibly even with the official release of the new content. So here's your chance to make your dialogue be heard (quite literally).

Damn it... I would love to write a quest... sadly I am a citizen of your northern (tiny) neighbour and neither British nor American.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

New Boss Beta up for testing!

Enjoy!

 

[S0ulseeker]

New Boss Beta up for testing!

Enjoy!

Can't wait to try it!

Does this boss test include hotfixes for seer fight?

EDIT: Disregard. Upon reading patch notes I discovered that it in fact does. Excellent