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Defining spam in icons section

Discussion in 'Site Discussion' started by Murlocologist, May 13, 2016.

  1. Quilnez

    Quilnez

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    Why can't we just let people express their appreciations and gratitude? No matter how flattering people's comment is, I never thought any single bit of how great I'm, I'm simply feeling pleased to know that somebody is appreciating my work and that I can be useful for somebody else. In fact most of times I can't even express myself to be thankful enough to people's appreciations. Just like what Shadow Fury said, it feels very motivating to me. And so is to everyone else I believe.

    It's probably lacking to be classified as "feedback", but we are human not robot. We have the ability be tolerant. Somebody is dictating you the way of making proper feedback but that doesn't mean you absolutely have to do it that way every single time. There are times where we don't know what to suggest, while we want to thank and to tell people that the resource is really deserving the thumbs. There are also people who do not care about the norm but simply passing by to express their feeling. Look at Gaias Retaliation threads, many people registered here simply just to appreciate the author. Even tho it was their first time of joining a social forum either knowing nothing about rules of post making. And many other scenarios too. I think all of that just make sense that it's happening so often.

    Furthermore. When you got a "5/5" comment on your resource, would you really think like "fk it dood you are spamming my thread!", really? I don't think so. Sense of jealously is the only reason behind these discussions, people who's feeling jealous of seeing the others being pleased or getting appreciated. Sorry to be a bit offensive here but I find it offensive as well that some of you think we feel completely flattered and so proud of ourselves for being praised. You are getting us so negatively there and it's so distasteful.
     
  2. Rheiko

    Rheiko

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    Mind reminding us what the purpose of commenting is all over again? Isn't it about expressing your gratitude and appreciation? Simply posting something like 5/5 and just that without any other comments is what I call meaningless. But if the user really does comment to show his appreciation toward the resource then that means it has a meaning. I'm more annoyed when some people praise the resource from years ago. It's a different story if they commented on it when the resource was fresh and just uploaded yesterday. As long as it's not meaningless.
     
  3. UgoUgo

    UgoUgo

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    I've been following this thread since the first post and I still don't understand what to complicate about?

    Firstly, coming from my own perspective, I dont have any problem with people commenting single line '5/5' to my resources. It doesnt boost my ego, it simply tells me 'alright, the target audience appreciates this art direction, so this is the kind of quality they want.'

    Second, if anyone simply gave me a 3/5 or 2/5 etc, I would accept it as 'so there is probably a group of audience that can't accept this,therefore I must find a way to satisfy them without sacrificing the group that liked my work, if possible.'

    Third, as an art student myself, if truly improving my artistic skill is my main goal, I don't go to Hive Workshop, I go showcase my work to tutors or artists, watch art videos or simply compare my current work to established artist.

    My point: Think of it this way, in real life if you are pursuing an art-based career (except fine artist), this is how most of your target audience are going to be - normal average people with no sensitivity to art. Like it or not, you have to deal with it and find a workaround - in this context, on how to improve your icon (perhaps VMing a person with better credibility, or wait for the moderators).
     
  4. Quilnez

    Quilnez

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    I was summing up people's discussion, not particularly about your posts only. When I said something's offensive doesn't mean it's you, which is indeed not you.

    Who's teaching you that the purpose of "5/5" comment is to feed somebody's ego? You are interpreting it that way because the comment is not on your resource and you are being negative minded (interpret things unreasonably negative). While on the resource maker's point of view, they may think it's just a comment they can ignore. Or for people who's appreciating appreciations, they can simply say thank you. Simple as that. Why do you think a simple "5/5" comment can be enough elevate somebody's ego so much? And moreover, why do you take it so seriously?

    5/5 comment for me is not a disease, instead it's the result of normal human behavior to appreciate things while they don't want to waste too much times in learning the subject. And just like what they're saying, not everyone is experienced enough to make a good detailed criticism.
     
  5. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    I think the main issue lies with the fact that you have to comment in order to rate the icon.

    If I see an icon, and I think "it's quite neat.. I think it's good but not amazing, probably a 4/5" I have to comment something if I want to rate it, but I had no deep reasoning behind it. Thus I'd just post something simple.
    Such as "Nice, 4/5"

    I would normally debate against you on pretty much all your points, but I am not in the mood so I wont get involved for once.
     
  6. Roland

    Roland

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    So you want to give people a harder way on explaining about art? a long and a detailed explanation instead of a summarized comment with a puny score on it? It would take time for some person to review an art tho it needs a huge amount of thinking and detailed scan of the icon other than skimming what it looks and saying "WOAH VERY NICE!! 5/5 EXCELLENTOOO WOO NO COMMENT"
     
  7. Rheiko

    Rheiko

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    Right, it's not limited to appreciation only. But that can be appreciation, you said it yourself. So I don't see anything wrong with people who give positive opinions and appreciation such as "Amazing!" or "It looks beautiful. Love it." or "What a great contribution to the site! Thank you."
     
  8. Quilnez

    Quilnez

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    So. Do you think those comments are toxic in your threads? If not, just let it go, would ya?
     
  9. HappyTauren

    HappyTauren

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    Guys, it is not rocket science. It is comments on resources. People are going to post what they think.

    Until something is majorly nonconstructive, offensive or completely off topic, I see no reason to have to deal with any of it.

    Comments like
    "You suck at making icons, please stop 1/5"
    or
    "Kill yourself, you suck!"
    or
    "Can somebody help me with this trigger pls *posts a whole trigger*"
    and so on can break several of those rules.

    However,

    I see nothing wrong with people saying things like
    "I really like it 5/5"
    or
    "The shaft really looks like a penis"
    or
    "Kinda lacking compared to your other work, this is not like you at all"
    or
    "You can do better 3/5"

    because they are honest opinions. And that's what the comment section is about. The comments I am fine with are actually derived from comments made by people on my models. Whether the sword handle looks like a penis (which might seem nonconstructive to some but it actually made me think for a bit), or my model is bad compared to the rest of them (if I whip something in 20 minutes compared to models I have taken more care to make), or that people like it, or that, again, I can do better (since they have seen my other work) are ALL simple opinions by users.

    I cannot even argue against most of those because I can see where they are coming from. Even if somebody says your murloc looks like he's masturbating, that might be the way (some) people see the icon. I know you don't like it, I know it might infuriate you due to all the work you've put into it, but that's how it appears to them. You cannot argue against them having an opinion like that, and to discourage honest feedback is counter-productive anyhow. As I said, I once made a sword that had a handle/pommel area shaped like a penis and it did not at all occur to me until somebody pointed out. I've actually scratched the model for other reasons, but I did take that into consideration too.

    I think that rather than re-imagine the way people post comments, content creators need to have more understanding for their end users because, after all, those are the people you create the resources for, and they'll post their honest opinions that very often do not meet your standards for how an opinion should be posted. But you need to remember that a lot of content USERS are not CREATORS (at least not of the same type, mind you) and they do not see your work the same way, nor could they ever hope to. I know how it was for me before I started modelling.

    As for the OP - I can see how you feel, and I can understand your rant perfectly, but much like how that's your opinion on how users should post in the resource section, other users have their own opinion as well. And the resource section belongs to everyone, whether they want to share their work and receive feedback, or post some. All this being said, people who obviously go out of their way to spam the forum and who repeatedly post the same things all over again should probably be dealt with if they simply clog up the space for more constructive and useful comments to come through, but yes, at that point it has already become spam and is against the rules anyway, my post was really referring to what I consider mostly normal user behavior. The quality of your 2D art is extremely high, so you should not even be swayed by some odd opinions anyway. Always remember that users could never appreciate the 2D art in a way a 2D art creator can :)

    So to TL;DR this - unless something is ridiculously nonconstructive, offensive or completely off topic, I see no reason to temper with it, people are often sincere, and content creators (like myself, as well) can like it or not, but instead of teaching users how to leave different kind of feedback (this will never work even if we tried), we should more so learn to accept how and what people think because, after all, those are the people we actually create resources for.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2016
  10. HappyTauren

    HappyTauren

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    Haha, yeah, I can see what you mean. But the thing is, I've thought a lot about this subject ever since I got my powers initially in 2007 (I have had the responsibility of taking care of the kind of posts you are referring to for 9 years, on and off), and to be honest, I have never found a simple and effective solution for this.

    I've always weighted what users want to post and what they perhaps should, but in the end it boils down to:

    "We are honestly unable to force users to leave the feedback the way we want them to, while still keeping people in general satisfied", which I don't think everyone here has the guts to admit.

    But that's how it is. It is honestly hard to put a clear line between constructive and nonconstructive posts if you consider that the general idea behind the resource section's comments is to reflect what users really want to say and think about the resource. You might not think that, but a "Looks nice, 5/5" post is still a user's opinion, no matter how you look at it. just because it is not particularly useful to you or me, it should not deter users from posting things like that. And some other content creators probably appreciate these kinds of comments, because they don't see a new post when somebody simply rates their resource, but they will be reminded of this kind of appreciation once the post is made. So there's other people's opinions to consider too, it is not all about you (or me, or any particular third person in question).

    You know, this is a really complex subject because it has multiple ways to approach it, and we both have to remember that our mindset is not the only one (we have highly differing mindsets, and above I just described a third type of a mindset), so as much as it might seem straightforward to you (or me, I tend to oversimplify things sometimes), it's kind of really hard to even find any sort of a balance for this, let alone make big decisions on what we tolerate and what we don't (aside from basic site rules which apply to all text written everywhere on this site).
     
  11. Sin'dorei300

    Sin'dorei300

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    I fully agree with HappyTauren, we can't stop people from posting their honest opinions.
    We can't ask people to post only constructive criticism. People want to express their opinion freely, unconstrained, as they can and as they know.
    If we constrain people to post in accordance with the constructiveness rule, then the sections' activity will drop noticeably and people will lose their interest in posting.
     
  12. neo_sluf

    neo_sluf

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    I admit I do this myself.

    Some are just spam others like me just don't bother putting 2 paragraphs since I am not a moderator and I really don't know very much about icon making.

    I love the colors 5/5 - for average users like us it is the most detailed we can do.

    My suggestion...

    Only add Posts count if the number of letters reach minimum to avoid intentional spams.
     
  13. HappyTauren

    HappyTauren

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    That rule would be awfully specific, plus the post count literally means nothing. But at the same time it could deter people from writing short comments if they just want their post count to go up.
    Then again, just because a post is short, should not disqualify it from being counted.

    I can go back and forth with this in my head, but I can't take either side, honestly, since both have pros and cons.
     
  14. neo_sluf

    neo_sluf

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    Well for non-spammers the post limit is not a problem.

    Look at Map Sections. Even though new uploaders aren't told about detailed descriptions they automatically make it because of letter minimum count.

    We addressed the problem with trolls I think it is time for spammers. If then what is the point of this thread?
     
  15. xYours Trulyx

    xYours Trulyx

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    What's wrong with saying "I love it! 5/5" in an icon? I mean,we surely MUST comment something to vote for it :\
     
  16. Ralle

    Ralle

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    Oh right. The system requires that you comment before rating. This is most likely a reason for all these ratings.
     
  17. Solu9

    Solu9

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    Personally I side with Murlocologist on this matter.

    Obviously most users on this forum are not trained in judging art, be it 2D or 3D.
    When I upload a resource I love getting feedback. Positive or negative, it doesn't matter as long as it is constructive.
    I believe I have altered almost all my resources according to a post/posts by other users who actually wrote what they liked and not liked (especially my icons... phew).
    Anyway.
    When I get a notification that a resource of mine has a new post I get excited because I want to know what people think. If they like the colors, the model, the weapon, the whatever, or if they find something strange or bad.
    But I need to know what is good and what is bad about my resources, and that is where constructive criticism comes in.
    I cannot use an "Amazing 5/5" or a "Looks awful 1/5" for anything, and neither can anyone else reading the posts.
    What is amazing or awful about my resource? It does not need to be a novel, a simple "I think blue would fit the model better" is fine because the user is posting something tangible. And that does not require the user to be an expert on the type of resource he is commenting on.

    As I wrote further up.
    I love when I have a notification. But as time has passed I tend to get a bit disappointed when I see that a new post is from certain users. Because I know that I cannot use the comment. I cannot improve or alter anything and I will not know what is liked, just a "4/5 or 5/5".
     
  18. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    I understand your reasoning but you can actually think something without having a physical reason to.
    I am sure you can think of many situations where you can't explain why the think the way you do.

    edit:
    Though I also have to admit that instead of just writing "x/5" I could likely write down a short sentence with my reasoning in almost every case. But not always.