[Defense / Survival] Defense of Thessadyn

[Deleted member 238589]

Story

For centuries, the war between the Orcs and Chathul dragged on. The orcs lacked technology and knowledge of their adversaries, but they made up for it with vicious attitude and incredible physical strength, so these two mighty races were evenly matched on the battlefield.
The one thing Chathul lacked compared to Orcs was a sense of unity. The corruption within their ranks destroyed any chanced Chathul had against the Orcs, and the Orcs knew that. They've soon launched an invasion on the Chathul homeworld and were able to cut through it's defenses with relative ease.

All hope seems lost to the remaining Chathul defenders. They had fled towards one of their last sanctuaries, the Temple of Thessadyn.
The local civilians also sought shelter there, and will now find themselves under protection of not just any Chathul army, but the Tempest Regiment.
Chosen among the strongest and most skilled Chathul, these battle-hardened warriors, even though decimated during the invasion, will die rather then see their loved ones butchered before their eyes.

The Temple of Thessadyn, the angel guardian of Chathul, is the only bastion of power that stands between the Orcs and the Chathul capital.
Now, having nothing else to lose, they prepare their defenses for the final onslaught. Will they be able to survive this war and arise once again as the great civilization they once were, or will they succumb to darkness, and embrace death and slavery?​

Screenshots

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Credits

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Models by:
General Frank
Infrisios
Horn
-Grendel
AnemicRoyalty
Hawkwing
Cavman
Norinrad
Fingolfin
epsilon
Metal_Sonic

Skins by:
modafoka
Ardenian
Daenar7
Just_Spectating
chr2
FrIkY
Stanakin
DeathChef

Icons by:
KelThuzad
Mr.Goblin
Hellx-Magnu
-Berz-
~Nightmare
SkriK
Soul Theft
NFWar
kola
D.ee
PeeKay
Heinvers
eubz
Dalharukn
Mad
The_Silent
FrIkY
UgoUgo

Packs by:
tobyfat50
Talavaj
Ujimasa Hojo
SinisterX
Raging Ent
XiaolianhuaStudio

Triggers by:
-Berz-
defskull
Footman16
Shar Dundred

Music & Voices by:
DivineArms
Two Steps from Hell

Changelog

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v0.0.1

- Initial release

v0.0.2

- Added hero selection
- Rebalanced all units
- Added one friendly (trainable) unit and one enemy unit

v0.0.3

- All hero spells completed
- Added a few items (potions) to the Magic Vault
- Enabled a second resource: Soul Shards (will be used for item purchasing and research, acquired by killing enemy units)
- Reduced health to most of the buildings
- Knocked out almost half the file-size
- Added new features to the Energy Towers
- Hunter is no longer considered "Mechanical", so he can be healed in the Spirit Wells
- Replaced spells for both Templar and Hunter
- Reworked all units a little

v0.1.0

- Uploaded the BETA version
- Added another trainable unit
- Lots of minor fixes

 

[Deleted member 238589]

This map is still in ALPHA stage.

This is an early version and I want to get some feedback before proceeding. Let me know if you have any ideas you'd like to see implemented in this map, as well as what do you think about it's difficulty, balance, theme, design, etc.

Needless to say, many things are just placeholders, and will be replaced later on.

EDIT: I forgot to mention: a unit called Sage, as well as research named "Mutation", are both incomplete, so don't waste your resources on them.

 

[VeljkoM]

I would rather say Alpha stage. Anyway tested and won the map.

Gameplay: Right now obviously there is not much to do as your units are limited, there are no items and you can't chose different hero. And to be honest I don't see the reason to bother to defend Towers as you can't repair them, they actually need to have ammo replenished (quite expensive) and worst of all they force you to divide troops. In the end I just stood in the middle and spammed ranged units.

Regarding units. Templars are not durable and I think they would benefit more from defensive ability as they are front line units. Then we have Hunters who instead get the defensive ability when they are ranged (fat) units in the back. Can't say much about casters yet though if this was melee I would not be happy about Stormbolting caster.

Enemy unit tips would benefit more if they actually told you what abilities units had and attack/armor types. Current tips are redundant as you pretty much can only block enemy with melee units in narrow space and shoot with ranged units. Also noticed in editor that you made several version of same enemy units who get a bit stronger and I couldn't stop wondering why did you make so many unit copies and not just use triggers and upgrade them. Extra units in object editor only increase loading time.

My biggest concern is at the moment is lack of any secondary way to get resource, lack of choices and that it is single player. Right now this map is like timed campaign mission.

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Regarding all the imports in my opinion map suffers from having too much. I think that custom quotes would be better removed along with custom music. Honestly voices are kinda odd and music gets repetitive so it doesn't add much to the atmosphere. I wouldn't comment otherwise about aesthetics of the map (I really don't care about looks) but in this case map would really benefit way more from being playable by group of people instead of being HD import fest for just one person.

Oh and also wouldn't hurt to get someone to check the grammar.

 

[Deleted member 238589]

First of all, thank you for taking time to test my map.

Right now obviously there is not much to do as your units are limited, there are no items and you can't chose different hero.

More units are meant to be unlocked overtime. And items will be added later on, of course, which is why I placed a 'shop' building, which will be bought with a secondary resource, the crystals, which are all features yet to be implemented, as I'm yet to figure out how am I going to implement it in the game. I'll probably add a hero choice, thought I haven't thought about it much, the map might benefit from more heroes.

And to be honest I don't see the reason to bother to defend Towers as you can't repair them, they actually need to have ammo replenished (quite expensive) and worst of all they force you to divide troops.

They're meant to provide cover for your troops, but I agree, the 'ammo' replenishment might be too expensive. Do you have any suggestion on how to make them more useful?

Regarding units. Templars are not durable and I think they would benefit more from defensive ability as they are front line units. Then we have Hunters who instead get the defensive ability when they are ranged (fat) units in the back.

I agree and I'll make sure to do something about this.

Can't say much about casters yet though if this was melee I would not be happy about Stormbolting caster.

The second caster is still incomplete so ignore him for now.

Enemy unit tips would benefit more if they actually told you what abilities units had and attack/armor types. Current tips are redundant as you pretty much can only block enemy with melee units in narrow space and shoot with ranged units.

Fair enough.

My biggest concern is at the moment is lack of any secondary way to get resource.

I was thinking about making gold by killing enemies, but I thought it might be too much gold, and I was aiming for a map in which a player would be forced to use a limited amount of resources to win.

lack of choices

What specifically?

and that it is single player.

I don't see what's wrong about that.

Regarding all the imports in my opinion map suffers from having too much. I think that custom quotes would be better removed along with custom music. Honestly voices are kinda odd and music gets repetitive so it doesn't add much to the atmosphere. I wouldn't comment otherwise about aesthetics of the map (I really don't care about looks) but in this case map would really benefit way more from being playable by group of people instead of being HD import fest for just one person.

I'll think about the custom quotes and I wanted to add a playlist. I get that a single track get repetitive overtime.
And I didn't import for the sake of importing, I wanted the map to be more aesthetically pleasing and I see nothing wrong with that.


Now, what do you think about the map's difficulty so far? Do you think I should make enemies stronger, etc?

 

[VeljkoM]

They're meant to provide cover for your troops, but I agree, the 'ammo' replenishment might be too expensive. Do you have any suggestion on how to make them more useful?

Sadly I can't suggest much. It is simple strategic fact that it is easier to defend one point than to stretch defenses to 3 separate lanes, I believe Sun Tzu had a rule about that. Now if the front line outposts provided some sort of benefit such bonus to the resources, auras, special units then it would be worth to focus on defending.

I was thinking about making gold by killing enemies, but I thought it might be too much gold, and I was aiming for a map in which a player would be forced to use a limited amount of resources to win.

Bounty wouldn't go against your idea at all. Right now I could barely afford anything, even after I won the last wave I couldn't afford the 800 upgrade (which I have no idea what it does). And this is before map even gives you items, upgrades, rest of units and things like that.

What specifically?

Well lets see whole map is basically holding 3 tight checkpoints while enemy sends cannon fodder in to a meat grinder. Yes at first glance enemy units seem different but majority are basic melee units who either are vulnerable to melee and resistant to range or have heavy armor for which you lack real counter since you are using wc3 melee system. Only caster and ranged units were different but since they are behind sea of melee units you can't take them out as you lack any long ranged unit (For now).

Also most importantly map is still early in development and you only have 3 units and a Hero.

I don't see what's wrong about that.

Because playing alone is boring and lacks replayability, castle defenses (all video games actually) are more satisfying with friends. You have picked wrong map type for single player.

I'll think about the custom quotes and I wanted to add a playlist. I get that a single track get repetitive overtime.
And I didn't import for the sake of importing, I wanted the map to be more aesthetically pleasing and I see nothing wrong with that.

That is importing for the sake of importing. It isn't to effect the actual game it is just to needless improvement of the least important factor. If you were making story driven map like cinematic, campaign or rpg then I would understand as those are types of maps where you want and need to have an atmosphere. Right now you sacrificed the most important part of warcraft gaming, the other players

I know that I am in minority regarding wc3 importmania aesthetics but I am not playing 13 year old game for graphics, I am playing because of fun modding gameplay and nostalgia. Otherwise I would play Starcraft 2 and Dota 2 instead.

Now, what do you think about the map's difficulty so far? Do you think I should make enemies stronger, etc?

You should randomize spawn points and add different enemy waves and events. Stealth attacks, suicide charges, air assault from unexpected direction, bonus rounds, more enemy heroes/leaders etc. And first finish all units and items and move out from Alpha stage to Beta and then worry about difficulty.

 

[Shar Dundred]

Don't mind me, just subscribing.

 

[Chaosy]

Neat terrain, seems like you still have the habit of only decorating the sides of the road though.

btw I LOVE that ziggurat skin.

 

[Deleted member 238589]

@VeljkoM

Thanks. I'll take your suggestions under consideration.

One more thing, do you think I should make all units available from the start?

@Shar Dundred

Thanks.

@Chaosy

I decorated the road mostly with rocks and stuff, but it's barely visible in these screenshots. And thanks.

 

[VeljkoM]

I would suggest not to allow all units to be available right away. Maybe it would be mean but make defender to unlock and upgrade units. Wouldn't be bad idea to have slightly larger unit selection that would make defender chose units instead of being able to hire them all. That way there would be replayability as there would be combos you couldn't all try in single game.

 

[Deleted member 238589]

Unlock them how, with money or overtime, as I originally intended?

 

[VeljkoM]

I would I think go with unlocking with gems while you buy units with gold. Overtime wouldn't work with my idea of having to chose units you want to use.

 

[Deleted member 238589]

Progress Report:
- There are three heroes to choose from at the beginning of the game
- Towers now have a Divine Shield and Devotion Aura based abilities to increase their efficiency

 

[Ardenian]

The fact that the player has to defend three ways is quite challenging.
I like the map, the terrain and models greatly match each other.
I personally think it is strange that Priest has no initial heal, as I would train them for healing purpose.

Is the temple located under ground ? If so, then I don't buy it, as there is no light difference between the outside and inside.

I look forward to see your map progress.

 

[Deleted member 238589]

The main source of healing are the Spirit Wells. Priest has a bit of a different role here.

The temple is not located underground, but it's still incomplete. I'm having hard time finding good interior decorations, so I'll save that for later.

 

[VeljkoM]

What about healing Hunters, they are mechanical and can't be targeted by the wells.

 

[Windrunner29]

I really love the ambiance of your map ! but one thing I don't like is that you can't build new buildings.

 

[Deleted member 238589]

What about healing Hunters, they are mechanical and can't be targeted by the wells.

If I don't think of anything else, I'll probably make them non-mechanical.

I really love the ambiance of your map ! but one thing I don't like is that you can't build new buildings.

Thanks. And that was kinda the idea. To make you win with limited resources and everything.

 

[Ardenian]

Well, hunters usually stand back, being physically weak but dealing high damage, isn't this their purpose ? In the best case they aren't damaged. Having no way to refresh their HP is strange, tho, I would say.

Maybe an ability that disables the hunter, but gives a decent regeneration ?

 

[Windrunner29]

Well, hunters usually stand back, being physically weak but dealing high damage, isn't this their purpose ? In the best case they aren't damaged. Having no way to refresh their HP is strange, tho, I would say.

Maybe an ability that disables the hunter, but gives a decent regeneration ?

Or an ability that make the hunter stopped and his life is regenerated. he can't move until his hitpoints are at their maximum.

 

[Ardenian]

Or an ability that make the hunter stopped and his life is regenerated. he can't move until his hitpoints are at their maximum.

Well, this is similar to the thing I suggested ( or exactly the same ?)

I think it could be a good idea to add different unit options, as VeljkoM already suggested, that offer different build and strategies.

 

[Windrunner29]

Well, this is similar to the thing I suggested ( or exactly the same ?)

oh... sorry ^^ this is not the first time that I read not too carefully

 

[Deleted member 238589]

Thanks for the suggestion, folks. I'm currently working on the map. The waves will be reworked entirely, as well as some friendly units. I'm also designing three heroes. As I said you'll be able to pick one of these three heroes at the beginning.

There's a Paladin, an Assassin and a Mage for you to choose from. Suggestions for spells are welcome of course. It's pretty self-explanatory what each class does.

 

[Shar Dundred]

Assassin could use more powerful spells that target one unit only while the Mage is for AoE damage with Blizzard/Rain of Fire like spells. The paladin could be more of a commander, buffing allies.

 

[Deleted member 238589]

You can see all the changes I made in the changelog. The demo map won't be updated yet though.

 

[Deleted member 238589]

Progress report:
- All hero spells completed
- Added a few items (potions) to the Magic Vault
- Enabled a second resource: Soul Shards (will be used for item purchasing and research, acquired by killing enemy units)
- Reduced health to most of the buildings
- Knocked out almost half the file-size
- Added new features to the Energy Towers
- Hunter is no longer considered "Mechanical", so he can be healed in the Spirit Wells
- Replaced spells for both Templar and Hunter
- Reworked all units a little

Demo will be updated soon.

 

[Deleted member 238589]

BETA version uploaded!

I most of the features are completed, but there are only 5 waves this time, just so I can get some feedback on their difficulty, balance in general, and bugs if there are any.

 

[Kino]

I most of the features are completed, but there are only 5 waves this time, just so I can get some feedback on their difficulty, balance in general, and bugs if there are any.

Im sure others have already pointed this out, but you are trying to polish a map first and then make the actual map after.

 

[Deleted member 238589]

Im sure others have already pointed this out, but you are trying to polish a map first and then make the actual map after.

I prefer to do things this way, though I always try to do all that simultaneously.
That aside, any criticism concerning the gameplay?

 

[Kino]

That aside, any criticism concerning the gameplay?

That's the point Im trying to make; theres barely any
Because you spent all your effort making the map look shiny first before putting anything in it.

 

[Deleted member 238589]

I just placed a few waves to see and released the map to see am I making them too difficult or too easy or whatever (I also need feedback about the new heroes I've placed in). How I do things, and in which order, is my own problem.

 

[Kino]

I just placed a few waves to see and released the map to see am I making them too difficult or too easy or whatever (I also need feedback about the new heroes I've placed in). How I do things, and in which order, is my own problem.

Nobody can force you develop to develop a map in a fixed way.
Nobody can give feedback on a map that has nothing in it either.

How would you like it if someone asked you test the gameplay of a barren field with two preplaced footmen? What you have here isn't too far of.
Your heroes are balanced, which means very little; since the moment you add any new content, that will naturally change.

 

[Deleted member 238589]

Nobody can force you develop to develop a map in a fixed way.
Nobody can give feedback on a map that has nothing in it either.

I gave you an answer to this earlier.

How would you like it if someone asked you test the gameplay of a barren field with two preplaced footmen? What you have here isn't too far of.
Your heroes are balanced, which means very little; since the moment you add any new content, that will naturally change.

Nobody's forcing you to test it, and I'm not sure what do you expect from a map still in heavy development.

 

[Kino]

I gave you an answer to this earlier.

lol where?

Nobody's forcing you to test it, and I'm not sure what do you expect from a map still in heavy development.

I expect nothing, Im just boggled by your thought process.
- Its very had to comment on the gameplay of a map that has none.
- Any balance feedback is irrelevant, since it will go out the window the moment you add anything new.


If you don't see that as feedback, then Im at a loss of how to explain it any clearer.
Perhaps you wanted ego-stroking instead of feedback, I would stayed clear if I knew that in advance.

 

[Deleted member 238589]

Its very had to comment on the gameplay of a map that has none.

I mostly wanted to know the difficulty of the waves so I don't go about creating 30-40 waves that are either too hard or too easy. Those 5 waves that currently exist are just samples.

You could have just said you wanted ego-stroking instead of feedback. I would stayed clear if I knew that in advance.

That's a bit insulting, I just wanted any sort of feedback, but it seems impossible, so I'll just wait for someone else who played the map.

 

[Kino]

I mostly wanted to know the difficulty of the waves so I don't go about creating 30-40 waves that are either too hard or too easy. Those 5 waves that currently exist are just samples.

That's the point Im trying to get across to you, but you dont seem to get it.
- The balance of your 5 waves will not matter as you add content to the map. Unless you have no plans to add any new units or even methods of defending, but I didn't see that anywhere in the thread.
- Whether the waves beyond these 5 will be too hard or too easy entirely depends on how you choose to scale beyond this point. Will it be constant upgrades or will we have new units? Thinking that because first 5 are balanced = all waves in future will be the same, is kinda illogical.

That's a bit insulting, I just wanted any sort of feedback, but it seems impossible, so I'll just wait for someone else who played the map.

I have given feedback, you just dont seem to acknowledge it.
- Content bare
- Theres nothing separating this from any run of the mill defence maps.Again, because theres so little to work with here. Are these all the core system you intend to have? are you adding more? If its the prior, then consider what Ive just said. If its the latter, then its odd that you are developing something without adding the core mechanics first.

But in the end, I cant force you to acknowledge the feedback.

 

[Deleted member 238589]

Okay, thanks for explaining it further, I get it now. I never worked on this type of map before, so I wanted to give it a go. There will definitely be more work here, of course.