Death~1

Moderator · Oct 18, 2009

17:10, 19th Oct 2009
ap0calypse: Rejected

Not really good, especially for a 2-man-project.

The_beast_of_doom · Oct 18, 2009

Ok here goes, i am adding some tech ups and changing quite a few things trying to get a song and music in game also a better terrain

but for now i have 2 screenshots.

takakenji · Oct 18, 2009

nice map. kind of chaotic, but well done for your first-map im assuming

terrain could use some improving, though

also, fix the author name from "unknown"

i give it a 3.5/5, fun and well made, just needs a bit more improving and tweaking

Vengeancekael · Oct 18, 2009

You could also improve the description by adding space btw every line and maybe colorize them.

Tleno · Oct 18, 2009

It has bad balance and terrain, I'd say. And Description & Grammar is just horrible...
Quite nice, but not good enough for 2 people work...

The_beast_of_doom · Oct 18, 2009

well im sorry you feel it is unbalanced but its winnable but i nerfed the hero if thats where your complaints are coming from and bettered some units

Tleno · Oct 18, 2009

And I think you should work on your grammar. I'm even not American and I speak better than you...

The_beast_of_doom · Oct 18, 2009

Well its a first map if you got issues id fix em but i nerfed the hero and balanced the game out more. If you have ideas I'd be happy to hear em but if you don't then you might wanna stop critisizing this.

Tleno · Oct 19, 2009

Nope, critics are good for your map and you. So I'm good. But you're right. I shouldn't critisize you. He (http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/members/ap0calypse/) should!

ap0calypse · Oct 19, 2009

The overall gameplay is very simple, there isn't a lot of choice in buildings, there are a lot balancing issues, there is no information whatsoever, the tooltips are very bad, the hive's description could be better.
The terrain is very bad: it instantly switches from blight to snow to blizzard cliffs, the "teleport regions" looked very bad (one was a circle with torches, another one a waygate with a... waterfall going upwards?

Whatever, the triggering is also pretty bad: you've used more triggers than necessary and most of them leak.

And... who of the two are you? Monkey or Icuy?
Whatever, doesn't seem like a lot of work - even alone this could've been done in under an hour.

Newb Guide Template

Triggering (GUI)

Basics

One of the first things you need to know is how to fix leaks, though I will go over something else first.
Variables.

You will need variables in every map you make, the only exceptions are melee-maps.
Variables are needed to count kills, remember heroes, fix leaks, basically everything that you need to recall.

The variable editor can be opened by pressing CTRL + B inside the trigger editor (or by pressing the yellow 'X' on top of the screen).
Now you can create variables by pressing the green 'X'-button, after that you can create any variable you wish.
Variables you will need in every map are:
Point variable (name doesn't matter) with an array
Group variable without array
Player Group variable without array
(these are to fix leaks)

Leaks cause lag and can crash your maps, so it's important to fix them.

For information on what leaks, check This tutorial
I would suggest reading this tutorial completely, you will get used to fixing them after a while.

Efficient Triggering

If you have triggers like:

Melee Initialization
- Events
  - Map initialization
- Conditions
- Actions
  - Unit - Create 1 Footman for Player 1 (Red) at (Player 1 (Red) start location) facing Default building facing degrees
  - Unit - Create 1 Footman for Player 2 (Blue) at (Player 2 (Blue) start location) facing Default building facing degrees
  - Unit - Create 1 Footman for Player 3 (Teal) at (Player 3 (Teal) start location) facing Default building facing degrees
  - Unit - Create 1 Footman for Player 4 (Purple) at (Player 4 (Purple) start location) facing Default building facing degrees
  - Unit - Create 1 Footman for Player 5 (Yellow) at (Player 5 (Yellow) start location) facing Default building facing degrees

Then you are doing something terribly wrong...
The better option would be:

Melee Initialization
- Events
  - Map initialization
- Conditions
- Actions
  - For each (Integer A) from 1 to 5, do (Actions)
    - Loop - Actions
      - Set loc[1] = ((Player((Integer A))) start location)
      - Unit - Create 1 Footman for (Player((Integer A))) at loc[1] facing Default building facing degrees
      - Custom script: call RemoveLocation(udg_loc[1])

Where "loc" is a point variable with array.
This does exactly the same, but the difference is that this is easier and it does not create lag (the other trigger does).

For Each Integer X info: this action will set integer X (can be any integer) from the starting value (in this case 1) to the end value (5).
Every time the integer increases, it will trigger the actions in it, so this trigger will activate 5 times, but every time it does something slightly different.
In more general terms, they're called "loops".

As you can see, loops are very useful for efficiency, but there is more...
The If/Then/Else-function is also very useful when talking about efficiency.

I will explain this with dialogs (if you do not know what dialogs are, or how to form them, Check this tutorial.
Note: the tutorial given above is not efficient, I will do it otherwise - the tutorial is just to show what it is and how it's formed!

I will skip the dialog init trigger and just go straight to the dialog buttons trigger.
Let's just say the dialog is a hero-choose dialog with 3 buttons (Ranger, Warrior, Mage).

Dialog Buttons
- Events
  - Dialog - A dialog button is clicked for Dialog
- Conditions
- Actions
  - If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
    - If - Conditions
      - (Clicked dialog button) Equal to DialogButton[1]
    - Then - Actions
      - Set loc[1] = (Center of (Playable map area))
      - Unit - Create 1 Ranger for (Triggering player) at loc[1] facing Default building facing degrees
      - Custom script: call RemoveLocation(udg_loc[1])
      - Game - Display to (All players) for 8.00 seconds the text: (|c00444488 + ((Name of (Triggering player)) + '|r has chosen the Ranger))
    - Else - Actions
  - If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
    - If - Conditions
      - (Clicked dialog button) Equal to DialogButton[2]
    - Then - Actions
      - Set loc[1] = (Center of (Playable map area))
      - Unit - Create 1 Warrior for (Triggering player) at loc[1] facing Default building facing degrees
      - Custom script: call RemoveLocation(udg_loc[1])
      - Game - Display to (All players) for 8.00 seconds the text: (|c00444488 + ((Name of (Triggering player)) + '|r has chosen the Warrior))
    - Else - Actions
  - If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
    - If - Conditions
      - (Clicked dialog button) Equal to DialogButton[3]
    - Then - Actions
      - Set loc[1] = (Center of (Playable map area))
      - Unit - Create 1 Mage for (Triggering player) at loc[1] facing Default building facing degrees
      - Custom script: call RemoveLocation(udg_loc[1])
      - Game - Display to (All players) for 8.00 seconds the text: (|c00444488 + ((Name of (Triggering player)) + '|r has chosen the Mage))
    - Else - Actions

As you can see, I can combine all dialog buttons for all dialogs into 1 trigger, making it a lot easier to scroll through the triggers...
(Triggering Player is the player clicking the dialog).

Kick-triggers are often done like this by newbs:

Kick
- Events
  - Player - Player 1 (Red) types a chat message containing -kick blue as An exact match
- Conditions
- Actions
  - Game - Defeat Player 2 (Blue) with the message: LOLOL NOOB!!!!

Kick
- Events
  - Player - Player 1 (Red) types a chat message containing -kick teal as An exact match
- Conditions
- Actions
  - Game - Defeat Player 3 (Teal) with the message: LOLOL NOOB!!!!

Kick
- Events
  - Player - Player 1 (Red) types a chat message containing -kick purple as An exact match
- Conditions
- Actions
  - Game - Defeat Player 4 (Purple) with the message: LOLOL NOOB!!!!

And this for every player...

As you can see, there are 2 mistakes:

You will need a lot of stupid triggers for this
"LOLOL NOOB!!!!" makes the map look like crap

I prefer one of these methods:

Init
- Events
  - Map initialization
- Conditions
- Actions
  - Set Color[1] = blue
  - Set Color[2] = teal
  - Set Color[3] = purple
  - Set Color[4] = yellow
  - Set Color[5] = orange
  - Set Color[6] = green

This sets up the colors... obviously (it's best to merge this with an already existing map init trigger)

Kick
- Events
  - Player - Player 1 (Red) types a chat message containing -kick as A substring
- Conditions
- Actions
  - For each (Integer i) from 1 to 6, do (Actions)
    - Loop - Actions
      - If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
        
        If - Conditions
        
        (Entered chat string) Equal to (-kick + Color[i])
        
        Then - Actions
        
        Game - Defeat (Player((i + 1))) with the message: You have been kicked
        
        Game - Display to (All players) for 7.00 seconds the text: (|c00444488 + ((Name of (Player((i + 1)))) + |r has been kicked))
        
        Else - Actions

And this is the kick-trigger, if the message is -kick + (color defined in map init), then the player matching that color will be kicked.
Easy and efficient...

This method is even easier, but a bit different: red will have to say -kick X (where X is a number)

Kick
- Events
  - Player - Player 1 (Red) types a chat message containing -kick as A substring
- Conditions
- Actions
  - For each (Integer i) from 1 to 6, do (Actions)
    - Loop - Actions
      - If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
        
        If - Conditions
        
        (Entered chat string) Equal to (-kick + (String((i + 1))))
        
        Then - Actions
        
        Game - Defeat (Player((i + 1))) with the message: You have been kicked
        
        Game - Display to (All players) for 7.00 seconds the text: (|c00444488 + ((Name of (Player((i + 1)))) + |r has been kicked))
        
        Else - Actions

That's it... the entire kick-trigger, that's easy, right?

Objects

Units

I shall start with perhaps the most annoying thing: tooltips and hotkeys.
If your tooltips/hotkeys are insufficient or wrong, the game won't progress smooth.
A good tooltips contains all necessary information without it being too long, TD's are the best example: those hotkeys really need Damage, Attack Speed, Range, Abilties (and additionally DPS, Ground/Air).
Tooltips are meant to provide information, not te be a part of the story/lore!.

Hotkeys should be easy to use and to remember.
In my TD, I have used:
E - R - T - Y - U - - - P
D - F - G
C - V - B

This is the same on both QWERTY and AZERTY!
The main block (left) is used to build towers, Y is for spells, U is for upgrades and P is to Sell towers (the other side of the keyboard).
Randomly using hotkeys is better than nothing at all, as long as they do not override eachother and they must be correct.

Important: use structure!
Put all units that belong together in the same race (e.g.: all heroes in human, all creeps in orc, all neutrals in Night Elf, ...).
If you ever need to change an object, you'll know exactly where to find it, this will save a lot of time (believe me... it will).

Spells/Buffs

About the same as units: the tooltip and hotkeys are important for the spells.

Do not use standard spells in a custom map! Change them as much as possible - or just so it fits in the map!

When you change the name of a spell, change the name of the buff as well!
e.g.: If you cast 'Ghost Form' (based of Wind Walk) and the buff says "Wind Walk: This unit is..." - that's just painful.

Terrain

Basic Info

Do not abuse the cliffs, WEU and JNGP have a better terrain-tool so you can use the terrain height-tool to make cliffs.
(Note: only use WEU for terraining purposes)
Use the terrain height tool a lot... a flat terrain sucks (don't overdo it, when you notice you're overdoing it, use the smooth tool).

When creating cities, make it look like a city...
A city is not a place where houses have been randomly placed, nor does it contain any other random props... a city is structured, thus you must also do so.

Doodads

Spammed cinematic doodads do not look good, avoid using them.

Use environmental doodads and don't be afraid to use too many of them... they're meant to be used more than other doodads.
When creating a forest, you will really need to use a lot of them: shrubs, rocks, fallen trees. hollow tree trunks, flowers, ... all of these are very common in forests, then why not use them in a forest in warcraft?

Description

A description is highly important, it will attract people to play your map and bad descriptions make the creator of the map look like a beginner.
To learn more about this, read my tutorial about it.

Tleno · Oct 23, 2009

Looks like you're making progress... continue to work like this and soon your map will be great!

The_beast_of_doom · Oct 23, 2009

Why thank you very much xD the maze I added because I thought gameplay was to short. so This came to mind and I was like eh why not.

Tleno · Oct 24, 2009

still, now you should concentrate on leak fixing/terraining/balance.

The_beast_of_doom · Oct 24, 2009

ty that helps a bit i haven't found any leaks in the game truly. Maybe I haven't seen them but none that crash the game

Tleno · Oct 24, 2009

Yes, game crushers are easy to find and hard to make one

But you should read more about those that make game lag at least a little, but my be very laggy on weak computers...

The_beast_of_doom · Oct 25, 2009

ok ill see what i can do about that. thinking about playing this on a lap top prolly kinda laggy. so ill see if i can fix a few leaks here and there.