- Joined
- Feb 14, 2008
- Messages
- 289
Ancient_Doom Presents
Corruption of Sargeras Legacy
Created by Shalek, passed on to Ancient_Doom
Summary
Corruption of Sargeras is what you would get if Kodo Tag, hero defense, and LOTR Builder had 20 babies all on one giant map covering a universe with separate planets. Weird, I know. But let's break it down.
- Evil
Evil is comprised of seven demon players.
Their objective is to kill either Sargeras or all of the World Races.
If all seven main units (Summoner) is captured then they lose. ('Capture' = hp reduced to 0)
If their main unit (Summoner) is captured it can be freed if your allies destroy the prison gate.
Good is comprised of four World Races and 1 Titan, Sargeras.
- Good
Their combined objective is to hunt down the demons and capture all of the Summoners.
If Sargeras dies or all the World Races die, then they lose. Demons also can free their Summoners if they break the prison gate.
With me so far? Great!
Features
Gameplay can naturally be considered by understanding the races needs, abilities, and strengths against how that works with their objective in a uniquely designed map. Let's begin with the most obvious you will see when you first start the game.
The map is comprised of separate worlds (islands). Every world has a Well of Eternity (goldmine), and the bigger worlds have three. The only exception is Sargeras's prison world. It is the largest island, is in the middle, and has no gold mines. The World Races start in the four corners of the map with four of the six largest worlds in their possession. There are dozens of uniquely crafted worlds.
With a map comprised of worlds, moving and how you manage larger armies is naturally an issue and becomes not only a unique quality, but the most important one.
Evil: Summoners can short-range blink rapidly and pull their units to themselves to move entire armies. This race also has access to units that can fly freely from world to world without the aid of Summoners.
Note: I want them to eventually be able to create portals with the nature of a waygate for them to have an easier time with extended sieges. But that is later down the road.
Sargeras: Sargeras can long-range blink on a medium cooldown. He can cross the map in two or three jumps.
World Races: They have unique units that can short-range blink and plant down portal nexuses. Once a portal is established then any World Race unit with the same skills can mass teleport to them, and of course bring an army.
Due to the unique nature of their maneuverability, then World Races have the strongest teamwork. They are able to instantly reinforce each other so long as they have a network of portals set up. Sargeras is also able to reach his allies quickly, just not... you know... as fast.P) Don't worry; he will eventually get there.
The Summoner's nature of maneuverability, as well as their unique flying units, leads them to naturally be unpredictable loners and risk takers. It is not unheard of for demons to aid each other, but they don't have that capability near as strongly as their enemy. It takes extra coordination for them to pull it off successfully.
Another factor that leads towards teamwork, or a lack thereof, is the nature of their economy.
Evil uses Magic and food. Magic comes from claiming Wells of Eternity. Naturally it is good to be self-sufficient, but this also leads them towards being competitive and establishing separate domains. they don't really want much to do with each other. Food simply means you can't have too big of an army.
Note: I am thinking of making food for them about how many Corrupted Wells they have, rather than army size. But this is how it is currently.
Sargeras uses Magic. Unlike the demons, he cannot harvest magic from Wells of Eternity. He must obtain more magic by destroying demons. This makes him a natural hunter, as if his overpowering muscles and masculine body wasn't enough.
Note: Something I want to add is something called 'worship', where the Mortals can donate Magic to him in ways. But that is later down the road.
Mortal Races use gold and food. Their economy is a bit more difficult to handle because it is about balance. They obtain gold via farms, and food via capitals, but farms use food just as much as their units do. So you must balance income vs the size of your army. Too much of an income can cripple the size of your army, even if it is more elite. Too many units may mean you will not have the funding to keep it up if you lose it. How you balance it is up to you.
This makes Mortal Races naturally self-reliant, but also not competitive in land unless you are building together and need every inch of space you can get. They can easily afford to expand slowly and work together.
Note: Different races will have different ways of obtaining gold, and have a different feel for how it handles food in the future. Some may even share economy with each other.
Next thing to understand is where each race is good and bad.
Evil:
+Stronger units than Mortals
+Can expand easily and quickly
+Have more players
+Summoners are evasive
-Have to take risks to get their army onto a planet
-Teamwork does not come too easily
-Sargeras can squash them
-The size of their economy is directly proportional to the size of their domain, and so they have weakspots.
Sargeras:
+Strongest unit in the game, literally designed to be OP
+You are basically Duke Nukem
+Can cross the map in 2-3 jumps
-There is just one of you
-You have no army, no real base, and not really much of an economy to support your hero beyond smashing stuff
-Picture an elephant trying to smash a horde of Speedy Gonzales, and you get the problem
-You can easily feel like a babysitter... If said babysitter was Duke Nukem (Is that actually a bad thing?)
-Your allies can oftentimes be stupid enough to just turtle in...
+You are still Duke Nukem
World Races:
+Incredible teamwork
+Your babysitter is Duke Nukem
+Self-reliant, stable economy
+Can throw armies across the galaxy in the span of three seconds (In our galaxy that would be 1.2e+20 km per hour. Seatbelts?)
+Your enemy are natural loners and risk-takers
-Your units are the weakest
-Have to balance the size of your economy with the size of your army
-Should be expanding across the galaxy to aid Sargeras and corner the evil to as small a cluster as possible so they can't escape, but the players rarely are that smart
While this looks complicated, and makes some things look completely OP and other races as just not fun, that's really my problem. They have strengths, they have weaknesses. I want to not have the game be so balanced that its dumb and lacks excitement, but rather for their to be high risk, high reward while at the same time having two solutions to every problem.
Screenshots and Videos
Not yet.
None yet.
Change Log
A lot of what I am doing here is largely things aimed at new players. Something I regurally see (when I see this being hosted) is that a newer player is lost, or they completely screw themselves over by building in the center at start as a demon or canceling their first portal or something to successfully screw themselves over for the entire game. Something I also see a lot is that even though this map is designed to allow for a large army, you can never use it. You constantly find 2-5 units fighting while all the others are in the back stuck behind other units or stuck behind terrain.
This is partially why Voidwalkers are considered OP by some of the better players, because voidwalkers are one of the only units that currently can get into the fight and participate actively. In addition, I see Succubus dominate fights they really shouldn't because they have range against an army that cant get to them. Therefore, a lot of what I am doing is designed to fix this. You build an army, the soldiers should be able to get into the fight instead of standing back sipping tea. Terrain is messy, not only because it keeps half of your army split in every direction, but because you get individual units stuck in the middle of forests for no reason, sargeras regurally finds himself unable to reach his prey entirely because the summoner can hide in small crevices the titan simply cannot
reach (More of an abuse than strategy due to the lack of counterplay), world races often find themselves having to build around all kinds of mountains and trees at their very START, and demons have such huge buildings on worlds that offer so little space that... simply there are problems.
Research is scattered across buildings and is disorganized. The relationship between wells and citadels is unclear, esspecially to newbies. The base tower has 1/4 or 1/5 the stats of Sargeras and costs 5g? Looking at the spells, I don't know what they offer and do for me. A lot of information is unclear, and so I am trying to tackle a lot of things while trying to figure out where else there are problems. One thing is food. It seems literally every demon building gives food, and I don't want food to be a concern for them, nor do I want this information to be so confusing in what gives food and doesn't give food and how much food. I want them to be as openly aggressive as they want to be and mass the shit out of things.
Thing is I rarely ever see mortals do anything more than turtle, and I rarely see demons actively building early armies and going after people. Don't get me wrong, this relationship is expected. Mortals, being weaker, would be afraid, and would turtle up. Demons are aggressive. But they spend so much time going into arcane portal. Arcane Portal to me is something you do if you are already doing well. It is not something you HAVE to do.
I want demons to be able to see early aggression as a whole strategy of its own, just as much as going into higher tech with heros or middle tech with elites.
I want demons to be able to see fighting back against Sargeras, or sieging the prison, or going after the mortals, to be just as rewarding in their own ways.
I want mortals to be able to see an aggressive stance to be rewarding just as much as a defensive one.
I want Sargeras to be able to say that he can choose between going after demons, or defending his allies, and to be able to have a successful game whichever path he focuses on more.
Naturally all of this mindsets would have pros and cons. They would have strengths and weaknesses, but that is part of what I want it to be so exciting!
--A lot of what I put my focus on then revolved around three things:
1. Making units small enough to get into a fight, look small enough in comparison to the fact that they are meant to be on WORLDS (damn they are like giants if you did a Real life comparison of size here), while still being large enough that the player can easily grab them and see what is going on.
This may mean the pit lords and Infernals and Sargeras, with all their aoe, are getting a major buff from it. But that is something to be watched.
2. To fix the terrain to be less screwed up and not give EVERY SINGLE PERSON a handicap from it. It may look pretty, but looking natural and pretty should never damage gameplay, it should only enrich it.
3. To fix the portal problem so that beginning demons do not completely screw themselves over as easily.
While I'm at it, you shouldn't even be able to have buildings in the prison... So I'll be ensuring there are multiple things keeping you from doing that.
--With that done, I am setting out to make things easier on newer players and make the gameplay faster paced, and beginning to move towards a better balance.
I have no intention of making Corruption of Sargeras completely 100% balanced. Some things should be powerful, but it should also have a weakness. For every problem there should be two solutions. The reward should be equal to the risk. If you make high risk, you should get high reward if it works.
1. Having more universal movement speeds is easier when dealing with a lot of variety, and giving almost everyone a bit more speed makes faster gameplay.
Also makes ranged less op.
2. Setting a lot of the training time to 1 second means you should be more concerned with resource management then having 4-5 barracks using 5 minutes just to get an army out. It also shouldn't take 2 whole minutes just to train one Infernal...
In the end if you have money, you should be able to damn well use it quickly and easily so you can put more time and focus on mobility and actually using your army. But at the same time, the easier ability to spend that cold hard cash means you need to be wiser about how you balance income with your food and how far you expand.
It has vastly increased reward to do this, while also increasing the risk some.
3. decreased hp regen across the board, because things should actually die at some point!
4. Shifted around the max hp of the demi-hero demon units. Some of them are meant to be tanks and have half the hp of the mages... Naturally I want them to have high hp, but come on. Tanks should be tanky!
5. Arcane Portal is increased from 250g to 500g.
All demi-hero costs set to 0.
All demi-hero time to train set to 1 second.
This is big, and is meant to make it easier on newer players, people who are a bit down on their luck (or have been stepped on by Sargeras once too many times), while also making the game faster paced and generally easier to manage and understand.
This means that if you build it, you can instantly get a demi-hero. No more saving up to 250g only to have to save up 550 more for that big bad demon. All the while taking so long that Sargeras can swoop in and crap on it. Also just generally taking so long that you just sit there waiting... and waiting... and not really doing anything. I've seen more experienced players get their demi-hero out quickly and get attacking in the first few minutes, but newer players have to go "so wait... I need to save up MORE?! I only have 3 wells!!"
That last change is one I really want to do just to make the game more manageable for everyone, increase risk, increase reward, keep it moving, and yes... It may mean buffing the hell out of demons to do it.
This is something I will be keeping a close eye on. I plan to watch to see just how much of a buff this is for the demons and see if I have to slam them with Sargeras' Nerf gun.
I should totally give Sargeras a gun item called 'Nerf'... That would be too funny.
6. I want the demon's first set of units to be more about choice than anything else. You shouldn't go for mass voidwalkers just because they are cheap. Nor succubus.
I want it to be an intelligent choice based on strength and weakness. I want felstalkers to be good vs sargeras and casters. I want voidwalkers be good vs sargeras and have mobility. I want succubus to be a choice between auto-attack strength and a caster. I want felguard to be solid front-line and still have enough damage to hurt. I also want to come out with a few units in the future to give more options for basic units. But I dont want "spam it because it is cheap" to be an option. so I am setting all basic demon units (not the worker) to 10g.
The only time "spam it" is a strategy, is when you have summoner units whose very function is to SUMMON a really cheap (meaning free) army. Or the unit is just generally crap. Like skeletons.
This does mean Sargears is whipping out the Nerf gun to hit Voidwalker and Succubus (mostly succubus), but me giving Voidwalker phase shift should still help keep it as a solid pick.
Voidwalker getting phase shift means he will be much more solid in a fight, enough to be worth the 10g cost. But with great risk, also means great losses at times. Sargeras can still kill a ton of them in one blow if he aims right.
7. Moved a few upgrades around on the demon side, and made it so the summoner would be the one making corrupted wells.
Because this only makes sense... Why have Unstable conbustion on a research building where the research to make it available is specifically NOT? No, rather its on the other reserach building. Yeah. That makes no sense. I think it is meant for 'lore' purposes or something, but that just takes away from gameplay at this point.
Also the same with the consumer being able to build corrupted wells. They are not associated with making buildings... they mine it. The summoner is the one the player associates with making buildings. So putting it on him, when he already walks up to it so use summon legion, only makes sense.
8. Redid the way demons handle food.
This may upset people, and to be fair, it is experimental. A lot of gibberish code was put into how demons handle the number of wells they can have vs the number of citadels they have. At the same time, how demons already handle food is just messed up. Everything makes food. In different amounts. That is not clarity. That's just screwy.
So in my experiment, I am making it so all demon units cost 0 food, the wells cost 1 food, and citadels/summoner produce the food.
In reality this will not change gameplay unless demons want to spam 50000 voidwalkers. (Really shouldn't, they are more expensive.) Because the reality is that I have never seen demons actually reach max food. I never have. They don't feel restricted by it, and to be honest, I don't want them to be. I want them to feel openly active whether they have 10 units or 100 units.
What this WILL do is give more clarity to the demonic income system, and let new players have a better idea of what to do.
Because players SEE how much food they have.
They SEE what uses the food.
they SEE what makes the food.
Not hard to put 1+1+1 together
9. Human and orc town halls/great halls now give more food when you upgrade the main building
this only makes sense...
10. Removed the pikemen
The pikemen fits into a position that doesnt really exist, and is never used. I would rather use a different unit for high damage melee types, like a swordsman type
11. Gave raiders the net ability and with siege attack
Orcs don't have a solution to proper air. Voidwalkers are hover, so they can be hit by melee. But nether drakes are proper air. There are no proper orcs units to counter that.
So I had to choose between an air unit, a ranged unit, or giving a unit they already have good functionality. At the same time, I want them to be a solid pick for towers and citadels on the enemy side.
Since all damage is now 1:1 against everything with a bonus of 20% to 1 thing, then it wont be bad to have raiders mixed in with your army, whereas before they only did 60% damage to anything not fortified
Now for the specifics------------------------------
Set the following units collision size from 16 to 5.
archer
corrupted archer
Corrupted peasent
corrupted soldier
peasent
pikemen
skeleton
soldier
Fel Orc
Fel Orc Warlord
Fel Orc Peon
Fel Orc Grunt
Warlord
peon
Warlock
Shaman
sorcerer
wizard
Fel Stalker
Felguard
felhound
Succubus
Voidwalker
Set the following units collision size from 16 to 7.
archmage
Corrupted Archmage
Corrupted Knight
Knight
Paladin
Far Seer
Fel Far Seer
Fel Orc Raider
Raider
Doom Guard
Dreadlord
Nether Dragon
Set the following units collision size from 30 to 10.
Eredar Summoner
Archimonde
Hakkar
Infernal
Infernal Denizon
Infernal Juggernaut
Kil'Jaedon
Pit Lord
Tichondrius
Set the following units collision size from 30 to 12.
Fel Kodo Rider
kodo Rider
Mannoroth
Set the following units model size to 0.45
Death Knight
far seer
corrupted far seer
warlord
corrupted warlord
Paladin
pikemen
Corrupted Archmage
Archmage
Felguard
felhound
Fel Stalker
Doom Guard
Dreadlord
Fel Stalker
Set the following units model size to 0.5
kodo rider
corrupted kodo rider
Set all other basic units model size to 0.6
Set all demi-hero model size to 0.8 approximately
Set all basic 2-legged units speed to 150.
Set all basic 4-legged and flying units speed to 250.
Set all demi-hero demons speed to 200.
Set Sargeras speed at 200.
Changed the color of Hakkar a bit to make him disinctive from other felguards
Changed the model of the Infernal Denizen to something a bit more nightmarish
Moved the Absorb Magic ability to 3-1/3-1 on the board
Shortened the delay on Summon Legion from 3 seconds to 1 second
Increased the range of the felguard by 50
increased gold cost of voidwalker from 6 to 10g
gave voidwalker the phaseshift ability
increased gold cost of succubus from 5 to 10g
decreased attack speed of succubus from 0.9 to 1
decreased gold cost of eredar consumer from 10g to 5g
Set the starting demon portal at 0g from 20g - This to keep from screwing themselves over when they build it in the center or cancel it
Set the Demon Summoner to be able to build Corrupted Wells, and removed that construction ability from the consumers
moved unstable conbustion from the furnace to the warlock shrine
allowed dreadlords to have their attack upgraded just as much as the others
cut the price of greater demonic citadel from 475 to 120
Removed the food cost of all demonic units
Removed food production from all demonic buildings
Set food production of the citadel to 1
Set food production of the greater citadel to 2
set food production of the summoner to 3
Set the food cost of the corrupted wells to 1
Redid the Summon Felhound ability so it is easier to manage
Made the terrain less chaotic and disorganized by compacting some of it and moved it to the sides, so you shouldn't get half your army stuck in it. It also opens the map up a bit more.
Added a gold mine to -6034.3, -4756.8
Moved the goldmine to the farthest north-west to a position where it will be less in-the-way.
Cleared all of the mortal-spawn locations of debree
Removed ability to miss moving targets or high ground targets
Set 'miss' damage to 0% from 50%.
Set building cancel refund to 100% from 75%
animated dead units can bestow auras - If you animated a dead guy, i dont see why u cant get the full package of what that unit has to offer. isnt that the point of animate dead?
Set it so that night lasts 1 minute of 'gamedays' - This should create nothing more than a blip on the screen, at most, so they recognize some time has passed. other than that the game should be bright and have good visibility all the time
set every non-hero or demi-hero unit to 1 hp regen (this esspecially hits the demons with their huge hp regen numbers)
Note: the sargeras' wardens are left untouched by the hp regen update
incresed mannoroth's hp regen from 4 to 8
set all other demon's demi-hero hp regen to 5
increased Tichondrius's hp from 750 to 950
increased Hakkar's hp form 800 to 950
decreased Archimonde's hp from 1350 to 1050
increased Mannoroth's hp from 950 to 1250
increased the cost of Arcane Portal from 250 to 500g
decreased the cost of all demon demi-heros to 0 (from 550, 400, 250, 175, and 175)
Set the build time of every single unit in the game to 1 second from 2-120 seconds
Set the Infernal and Infernal Juggernaut build time to 5 from 20
Increased the mortal income rate from 29 to 30 seconds
removed the pikemen
Gave the raiders an autocast net ability
Piercing does 100% damage to all armor with a 20% bonus to light
Normal does 100% damage to all armor with a 20% bonus to normal/medium
Magic does 100% damage to all armor with a 20% bonus to heavy
Hero does 100% damage to all armor with a 20% bonus to divine
Chaos does 100% damage to all armor with a 20% bonus to hero
Siege does 100% damage to all armor with a 20% bonus to fortified
There are bugfixes and small changes made to begin laying the groundwork for future changes.
Including me giving the human soldiers an ability to help shape their identity. Their identity comes down to 4 things: Average private in an army, a sword, a shield, some armor. They are your normal every day soldiers with just enough training to use what they have without killing themselves. Looking at them, considering the shield takes up so much of their body, you would think they would use it? The base defend ability is a formation thing for ONLY if you actually turn it on. I'm sorry, but soldiers arent that dumb that they wouldn't be blocking damage whenever possible from other sources... Such as swords, maces, big balls of fiery death, tentacle monsters, etc.
They are still weak. but this should help them feel more like a sword and shield military unit that they are. In terms of balance, this will help them a lot against demon units that don't have the most damage. In my eyes, felguard are still stronger, and will be a direct counter in the future, and nether drakes and voidwalkers can still do some damage. I don't want succubus to be useless, so I will be looking into shaping her identity mroe in the future. But something like Felbeast will be kinda useless against hte soldier
If you want to seriously kill soldiers, I would go for pitlords and infernals and damage casters. Because soldiers are a solid pick for front-line fighting and being an iron wall of armor.
Wait does Demon even have spell caster damage dealers? I will have to look into that.
Here are the specifics--------------
Fixed a bug in the code that broke the tutorial and destroyed a goldmine on an entire planet, rendering the planet all but useless.
Fixed a bug that created multiple goldmines in one location.
Fixed a bug that caused the Seed of Darkness to not respawn when you cancel the starting Nether Gate. (Despite my efforts to keep players from screwing themselves, the game still insisted on killing the seed till now.)
Set the Nether Gate to 20g from 0g (There are multiple ones and they were mixed up.)
Decreased archer damage from 40 per 4 second to 25 per 4 seconds.
Increased the stats of Mannoroth's Blood Pact:
0.5 sec cooldown to 50sec cooldown
.15 sec duration to 15 sec duration
Gave the Corrupted Wells of Eternity the ability to train their own eredar consumers. (I am thinking of making it so the Nether Gate cannot make consumers. I want the gate to be associated with military. Not sure, I would like to know people's thoughts about it.)
Gave the human soldiers a new ability!
Block-
Passive
Has a 70% chance to reduce attack damage by 5.
The incredibly tedious tooltips! One of the biggest problems, along with balance, is clarity. The information is unclear on a lot of things and this applies in two big areas: confusing identity and a lack of information. While I am slowly working on the identity issue with buildings, units, and races as a whole, I also need to fix the information provided to players. This is done mostly through tooltips. Due to that, it is easy. But at the same time it is incredibly tedious, time consuming, and is something mapmakers tend to avoid doing because it feels so dumb and insigifncant. But with that said, it is still important. Not only for information, but psychology. Its an actual psychological impact that red colors naturally make you agressive, blue makes you think long-term, and yellow makes you root for the little guy. As such as part of me updating all the tooltips, I will be creating a theme with each team. Evil is red, mortals are blue, and sargeras is yellow, at least as far as tooltips go. This should hopefully encourage a proper mindset. Although if this only results in mortals turtling further, then IM MAKING THEM RED TOO! Red for everybody!
updated tooltips for the following units:
Archer
Felguard
With these two units having updated tooltips, people should be able to tell me how it is.
As I saw that having a portal ability was in such high demand, and I think it is actually a good way of encouraging demonic offensiveness, then I have made it.
Chevalier made portals with the ability to self-destruct. I won't be doing that. They lose power and eventually self-destruct on their own, but not when you tell it to. That, to me, takes the risk out of the reward when it should work both ways.
Summoner's new ability:
Open Portal -
60 sec cooldown
60 sec duration
This spell creates two waygate portals. One on the destination, and the other on the caster. You can then shove things into it.
The spell does not summon portals into mountains and giant rocks or in the ocean/nether, but it DOES summon them into trees if you aim it there, rendering it useless at times, so be careful where you aim it and where you are standing when you cast it. You will want your units to be able to reach it.
i have also been looking at giving more units a clear identity.
Felguard has a new ability:
Felblade-
Reduces armor of the unit it attacks by 3
Reduced attack speed from 1 to 1.25
This ability should give it more identity as a solid front-line unit with an offensive tone. It wants to kill stuff. It is not an attack-speed based unit, but rather one based around strong hits. It doesn't want its damage to be shrugged off easily. It wants to actually hurt! He should make up the bulk of your army with his high base stats for a low cost unit, if you are going to for quantity.In hard numbers this can actually be considered a mild nerf to mild buff. Because the amount of damage reduction 3 armor gives ranges from 6 to 16%, and his attack speed has been reduced by 25% to compensate. Yet in turn the other demons also can hit the unit harder. So 1v1, its a mild nerf. 2v1 its a mild buff.
Hits harder, but less often. Allows allies to hit harder too.
Felhound has been modified:
devour magic-
Devour magic now explodes 5 mana on attack (from 2)
Devour magic now deals 5 damage per mana exploded (from 1)
Removed stone skin
Felhound collision size reduced from 5 to 3
Felhound attack speed reduced from 1 to 1.75
Felhound attack damage increased from 8-12 to 12-15
Felhound, I want to have a clear identity as a mana hunter, an assassin. you see something with mana, you go after it. You burn it alive. You tear it apart. What I have done here is technically a buff because if you see something with mana, you can squirm a squad of felhounds through stuff and after it. You can pack a bunch of felhounds around 1 unit.
In a lot of ways this can be considered a buff. Its damage looks to be 5dps against normal targets, but against targets with mana it deals a total of 30 per hit. Basically it hurts a lot.
The risk is that Felhounds are squishy. Really squishy. Anything not mage related can kill a felhound 1 on 1. Might be a bit close, but in terms of raw power against non-mana targets, felhounds will fall behind. This is why I reduced the collision in half, so that you can get to what you want.
At the same time, trying to squeeze a bunch of felhounds THROUGH an enemy army to reach the sweet sweet mana may end up with a bunch of them dieing, or having their health down.
Whether this risk and reward is enough, I will have to see. I don't want them to be considered utterly useless on the front lines either, you can squeeze a bunch of felhounds into the frontlines to help your army. They just need a clear identity as an assassin.
The biggest concern is Sargeras. Sargeras is an odd race, as he can range wildly from OP to useless. He already kills felhounds easily, but the increase in damage may be too much against him. To compensate, I am thinking of removing the magic immunity. Thinking about it anyway. Just like they deal a lot more damage to him now, he should be able to deal more to them. It is one of the things I will specifically be looking at in the future.
Dreadlords have been changed:
Removed Summon Infernal
Added Raise Dead-
Summons 2 skeletons every 8 seconds
Added Voidwalk (windwalk)- (work in progress, so if it isn't added yet, it will be soon.)
Allows the Dreadlord to be invisible for 15 seconds on a 12 sec cd.
The identity of the Dreadlord is, currently, an expensive bad front line unit that summons a bunch of infernals (which is OP) and uses corrupt to 1-hit-ko enemy units and gain an enemy unit in the process, all while being much too big to actually get in there and do something. The default result is that they can't use corrupt because they can't get in, they are easily smashed by Sargeras or anything that can get to them, and about all they can do is stand in the back throwing infernals like softballs. Suffice to say thats not good for multiple reasons. Due to the Infernals, a good dreadlord is stupidily good. (a 125 cost value summon from a 55 cost unit? Really?) While a bad dreadlord is utterly useless. (A 55 cost unit that can't really get into a fight, has horrible stats, and is practically 1-shot by Sargeras or anything ranged.) While I can appreciate the idea of a skill-based unit that can range from good to bad depending on how you use him, this is too far in both extremes. At the same time, his identity is that of a summoner who summons units twice as big as himself. That just becomes an exploit to cheap-as-hell mass infernals!
So I am refining the dreadlord identity. The dreadlord, in lore, is that of an agent. They are skilled in necromancy magic and are often lurking in dark corners and are assassins. That is also the image I want to keep intact because that gives the one unit a great deal of strength through magic and options. They can be assassins (using corrupt or voidwalk), they can be sneaky to either get in or get out, or both (using voidwalk), and they can be a good support for the army in a fight from the backline (raising the dead to bolster your frontline or corrupt to do the same from behind enemy lines). Each of these abilities are good, and can be used to make him a very adaptive unit. Adaptability combined with sneakiness is, in and of itself, a very strong identity to have. It means you have to think, you have to have a plan. That is the identity of the Dreadlord. Not a good unit in stats, but in the hands of someone with a plan, can sneak into worlds and sow chaos.
succubus has a new ability:
Charm:
Converts an enemy unit to your side for a few seconds. (Only works on units, not heros or buildings.)
Succubus, to me, fits into a very unusual place. Ranged, yes. Damage dealer? No she doesn't strike me as a damage dealer or assassin type. After considering her, her lore, and the position I want her to be in, I have decided on a controlling mage. She controls the enemy. To this end she has curse, which is on autocast and reduces a fair number of good stats for the enemy, and now charm. Now, there is something to be understood in the difference between what you expect charm to do and what it actually does. Charm is usually done to steal an enemy unit, causing you a 2 for 1 trade in card terms. You kill an enemy unit while gain one. Its a good trade. However the way my charm works is that it is very VERY temporary. It is only long enough for the unit to stop attacking you, to attack things around it, for the enemy to possibly attack it, and to keep your enemy from using that unit for a few seconds. It is like a more lethal version of hex. It lasts only a short time. Yet, if you use it right, it can give you the control of the enemy unit you need to make that difference matter, esspecially if used on the correct unit. Now, I can imagine this spell can be used to be absolutely OP in the right hands. It can be stupidily good, esspecially as easy as Succubus is to mass. To that end, it costs so much mana that she can't do much else if you want to go that route with her.
I think that this spell could be exciting for both sides. Because the person using it has a brief window to take control of an enemy unit, while the mortal player understands that it is only for a brief few seconds and unlike Hex, this ability can have a lot more to it with a much larger degree of skill involved.
One thing that would be really interesting to see is perhaps charming an enemy Orc Warlord, immediately having him cast Roar for your side, and telling him to kill a shaman for the brief time you have him. Or charming an entire squad of paladins rapidly, reviving your own stuff, and letting them go. What you do with it is up to the demon player, and I look forward to seeing what kind of stuff they can come up with. Who knows, they might surprise me.
Succubus attack speed has been increased to 1.75 from 1
Succubus attack damage has been increased from 6-8 to 9-15
This change in damage should allow her to feel less like a straight damage dealer, so you rely more on her control, while still allowing her to be useful.
Infernal has a new ability:
Planetary Entry:
Basically blink... But it looks cool, so it still feels like you are summoning an infernal.
Infernal has a very clear identity already, but is often considered a bit differentely. In lore, the Infernal is constructed somewhere and then thrown onto a planet later. People tend to associate infernals with a summon unit more than an areal drop, and I want to shift it both toward a more realistic way, a fair way (so you don't have a 55 cost unit summoning a 125 cost unit every minute...), and which gives the infernal something few other units can have: Self=reliance. All units, except for the Voidwalker and Nether drake, must rely on something else to move. The infernal doesn't need that. They are so big that I want them to not have to rely on others to do what you gotta do.
But more than that, I want them to have a stronger identy as an ODST. If you know Halo, then ODST means Orbital Drop Shock Trooper. Think Mandalorians. Think halo ODST. Think the Master chief. THINK BADASS!! The Infernal is a unit that I want to have an identity that you are gonna just throw it into the middle of the enemy army or base, and just let it sow all KINDS of chaos and mayhem!
Hell, I might just play demon for the sheer joy of making a squad of these babies and just throwing them at someone. Forget the rest of the demonic invasion! I got what I need right here!
The only unfortunate thing about them is that unless you specifically use Summon Legion or overwhelm the enemy, odds are they going to die.
BUT IT WILL BE A GLORIOUS DEATH AS THEY DIE STANDING ON A MOUNTAIN OF BODIES!!
Archer has a new ability:
Headshot:
The unit has a 10% chance to crit for 2x.
Archer hp from 300 to 125.
Archer attack speed from 4 to 2 seconds.
The archer is in an odd place for me. Yes, she is supposed to deal damage. Yes, she is supposed to be ranged. But at the last time I checked she had the greatest hp/damage value for her cost of any unit in the game. I will be toning her stats down as needed, as people play the game and I see how much of a doozy she is, but this ability in her kit should help make clear the fact that she is supposed to be a ranged dps.
decreased hp of corrupted tower to 350 from 1500
decreased attack of corrupted tower to 10 from 40
decreased attack speed of corrupted tower to 1 from .9
I found that demons have a tendency to actually take turrets from humans. The corrupted towers are much stronger, resulting in a kind of "plague" that humans simply cnanot deal with. So I am nerfing it to be equal to normal human turrets.
I plan to completely remove that ability to take buildings, but that will be a bit later once I figure out how the mechanics of that particular skill works. I am open to people having a lot of different strategies, but you shouldn't feel that your own base will turn on you. One of the mindsets of a base is security. You should feel most secure in a base, not the most vulnerable.
Another problem found is the orc's innate lack of anti-air. I have made a change in turn.
Raider has a new ability!
Net:
The unit will automatically pull air units to the ground when it goes to attack them.
I want the horde to stay feeling like a front-line race with a lot of 'CHAAAAAAAAAARGE' feel. Much like the Orcs of Warhammer40k. Ranged is not their speciality. So choosing between ranged units and giving one of them more functionality, I went with this route. The skill is completely automatic, so you don't need to worry about casting.
Archmage:
Flamestrike damage full damage interval down from 1.5 to 1
Flamestrike is a bit of a difficult spell right now to figure out. There are a lot of numbers and an entire equation to its damage. Hopefully decreasing the number that I did will manage what I want.
The spell simply does too much damage.
Farms can no longer upgrade into Plantations
Farms are a bit bigger visually, but this will have no impact on gameplay.
Mortal default income per 30 is 30g. (The equation specifically is 30+(farms*1))
I do this for a few reasons.
1. Mortals need a general buff to fund an actual army.
2. Mortal income is hard to come by, and they are practically crippled by it unless they are lucky enough to be given 10 minutes of free time.
3. Farm income, to me, should supplement your income. Where you have a choice between 'okay, do i stick with the default and get more elites? Or do I buff my income a bit more and have less elites?" But to spend half of your food supply JUST to get your income to the most basic level necessary is by definition: crippling.
4. This is the first step toward me redoing how Mortals start the game. There will be a few more steps before I can get it where I want, and allow people to choose races and allow me to give more racial options.
Priest and Shaman have a lot removed, but the Dimensional Traveler has been added to both Orcs and Humans:
1. Astral Walk removed from Priest and Shaman
2. Teleport removed from Priest and Shaman
3. Portal construction removed from Priest and Shaman
4. All of that has been put into the new unit: The Dimensional Traveler
5. The dimensional traveler can be built at any townhall/greathall variant.
The reason for this is, again, identity, but also more specifically a seperation of roles. The role of a priest is part healer, part cleanser, and part 'dimensional traveler'. Shaman is the exact same. I want both the Priest and Shaman to have the identities of a priest and a shaman, not of a teleporter. So I will be giving them a new set of spells in the future, and they will no longer be bound to the identity of mobility. Instead I have made the dimensional traveler whose identity is 100% to take up that identity for them.
- Balance it so that a mortal army can be equal to a demonic army in overall value and time devoted to it
- Redo the Mortal start so that you can choose how you want to start your base
- Make it faster paced so that you get more value early, and over time, while still having the feel of an early/mid/late tech-tree
- Redo the human and orc tech tree
- Add the ability to choose your race rather than have it preset for you
- Redo every unit in the game to have unique potential and have something to offer
- Add a second-chance system to mortals while updating the prison system to be equivalent for demon players
- Add races to all players
- Nature (Mortal), Illidari (Mortal), Nightmare (Demon), Fel (Demon), Titan of Wrath (Sargeras), Titan of Knowledge (Sargeras), Titan of Mercy (Sargeras)- Add the Portal ability to demonic players
not yet.
Author's notes
As reviving this map is an ongoing effort, and the popularity of this map has always hovered between being a cult-classic and popular, then I would encourage people to help me by telling me what they think, feel, and want.
Last edited:
![CraZy.FroG[B]](/data/avatars/s/114/114047.jpg?1465503766){kind=avatar}