Corrupted Veins v1.1

[Moderator]

Orcnet

09:53, 20th June 2013

Comment

Review

Map Approved

Corrupted Veins (Version 1.1) Rate Score Percent Letter 5/5 91-100 A Rate Score Percent Letter 4/5 81-90% B Rate Score Percent Letter 3/5 75-80% C Rate Score Percent Letter 2/5 70-74% D Rate Score Percent Letter 1/5 50-69% F Overview: Gameplay "Corrupted Veins" is a 1v1 player Melee map on a ashenvale background. "Creep difficulty is fine but those early creep out spots near the main bases needs 1 more man in play, so it should be 3 dark trolls in place and 2 troll trappers and 1 dark troll priest in the other. Another is the main bases near to each other, how about place player 1 in top left main base while player 2 in lower right of the main base, that way it will be a long march away from internal sieges from enemy tactics, and lastly, the middle stronghold. Using goblin laboratory to barge for another goblin laboratory is a bit dull, replace that neutral building with another more appeal to it such as another theme(lordaeron summer, felwood, underground) mercenary camp or marketplace." Terrain "Terrain is in such a pretty shape, it looks more of a jungle explosion. I had no problems undergoing the inner map from path blocks and terrain problems." Management "Game wise, just the creep camps and neutral building in the middle needs more polish, everything else its fine and goodly done." Total Score: Rate Score Percent Letter 10/15 83% B

 

[UndeadImmortal]

This is my first time creating a symmetric melee.
Subscribing.

 

[normalice]

i took a look at your map, here are my thoughts:
the good
-enough resources and creeps for a balanced game
-terrain looks fine (disclaimer: this is not exactly my area of expertise. I would defer you to someone more credible than myself for a better review of the 'looks' of the map).

the bad
-Not quite enough space at the starting locations.
-map is basically one gigantic pathing bottleneck. at least open the map a bit around the expansion mines.
-long ground path between bases. coupled with the pathing bottleneck and all players must tech air.
-green creep camps a bit too close to starting locations
-drops favor agility heroes, which humans and undead do not have - thus leaving such players at a natural disadvantage.
-all creeps are ranged, which gives humans and night elves a natural advantage. (This does not balance out the previous, nor is it antagonistic to a fast air strategy, unfortunately).

the quirks
-your drops are a bit.. crazy overall. You generally never want to drop campaign, level 0, miscellaneous, or purchasable items. You have done so, but I suppose there is nothing too overpowered in there..
-side-by-side goblin shops?
-no critters (undead may be put off a bit)
-creep camps too close to the 'path' to the taverns. No one wants to micro that sort of thing. Ideally, you want people to be able to check-point between bases/taverns, without being bothered by creeps along the way - but it's symmetric, so I guess that's fine.
-many orange creeps combined with the long path to the enemy base calls for early units in order to not 'stand around', yet the layout of the map calls for an early tech, which is a conflict. But, both players have to deal with it, so I suppose it is balanced..

suggestions
-you are light on green creep camps and heavy on red. Furthermore, the natural expansions are far enough away to justify a green camp. I would consider switching those to green.
-the only other thing I can think of is to 'shift' the map vertically (upward). Reduce the length of the path and add a second one across the top. Sounds like a lot of work, really, but that's all I could think of...

 

[WolfFarkas]

i took a look at your map, here are my thoughts:

wow, i think im the good cop XD, and Normalice the... XD (just joke)
i didnt see those level 0 items, so he is rigth and aaaa uuuu...
he has 11 melees approved so he know what he is talking about.

Normalice, you made a more complete review... but i have the screenshoots bonus and the being the first bonus (joking again, reviews should be fun)

have nice day people

 

[UndeadImmortal]

Map updated! See changelog.
__________________________________________

-green creep camps a bit too close to starting locations

I don't know what's wrong in there, i just copied Blizzard's melees. The creeps have an acquisition range of a 'camp' which is 200, so i don't think they will attack buildings.

-side-by-side goblin shops?

Removed.

-no critters (undead may be put off a bit)

The map is already small, putting critters will block more of the path. So i don't think it is that required.

-the only other thing I can think of is to 'shift' the map vertically (upward). Reduce the length of the path and add a second one across the top. Sounds like a lot of work, really, but that's all I could think of...

Well that will ruin the map's strategy. There are 3 options to choose from; Get an army and kill all those creeps at the bottom; Get zeppelins; or, cut/those trees near your base to get a passage to your enemy.

-mushrooms spawned, i like super mario too, but again less is more.

Well the veins are the shrooms, decreasing it well uhh, ruin the map's beauty?

i didnt see those level 0 items, so he is rigth and aaaa uuuu...
he has 11 melees approved so he know what he is talking about.

This is my first time uploading a melee map.

Anyway, thanks for the review guys! Appreciate it.

 

[normalice]

I don't know what's wrong in there, i just copied Blizzard's melees. The creeps have an acquisition range of a 'camp' which is 200, so i don't think they will attack buildings.

this wouldn't be a problem if there was more space for building, but as it stands players must build some of their 'early' building a little too close to the green creep camp for comfort, if they want to barricade their base (which any decent player does).

Well that will ruin the map's strategy. There are 3 options to choose from; Get an army and kill all those creeps at the bottom; Get zeppelins; or, cut/those trees near your base to get a passage to your enemy.

I get that, but that isn't what I was suggesting. Basically, I was suggesting a 'reflection' about the top, so that there are two paths to get to each other's base, and then reducing the length of each path by half.

Anyway, there is only one strategy here that can win. You know your opponent isn't going to rush or harass you, because it's too far away and he's got to run through a "gauntlet" to get to you, so all you need to do is fast tech to air. If your opponent does not do so too, then you win. Night elves have a significant advantage on this map, since their t1 anti-air is used for t2 air. Unlike the other races, they can creep early and fast tech to air. All other races must pick between the two. Add that to the agility-only tome drops and all-ranged creeps and we have a map that is significantly biased towards a night elf victory. If you make it easier/possible to rush and harass this cuts down on some of that advantage.

Additionally, cutting through the trees that separate the bases is going to be tricky, because there are creeps guarding it. So, you can't set your wood workers to it right away. I've made maps that have bases separated by trees, and if you don't set it up such that the trees between the bases are those which someone will start cutting down at the onset, they aren't going to be cut down.

 

[Daffa]

This map sucks 1/5

Seriously, will review it at once, was busy yesterday when you request me.

EDIT :

Seriously now, time for some real review :

[Based on what i saw @World Editor] :

you have a nice terrain
Fair Distribution of Tech and Features for Both Players
Nice Symmetry

WTF? Creep Start Points? near building? remove those trolls near the base, the one near the map ends
Tavern is unaccessible, those trolls at the Fountain going to kill our poor workers ;_;
Middle + South Part [where battle tend to happen there] are nice Death Trap which kills our army in matter of time [especially the middle]

That's pretty much I can saw for nao

Will see how it is in game [I'm bored, making an uber hero to pawn Insane AI]

 

[UndeadImmortal]

WTF? Creep Start Points? near building? remove those trolls near the base, the one near the map ends

The creeps only have 200 acquisition/aggressiveness range. If that is really a big issue, then i might fix it.

Tavern is unaccessible, those trolls at the Fountain going to kill our poor workers ;_;

At night maybe?

Middle + South Part [where battle tend to happen there] are nice Death Trap which kills our army in matter of time [especially the middle]

I don't quite get this one. You can build towers if you've conquered the expansion gold mine at the middle to stop the enemy's flying units from destroying your base.

 

[Daffa]

The creeps only have 200 acquisition/aggressiveness range. If that is really a big issue, then i might fix it.

It's annoying sometimes if they suddenly approaches >.> that's the main point

At night maybe?

Newbies tend to be reckless, also, when you buy the hero [presuming daytime comes], it will be annoying.

I don't quite get this one. You can build towers if you've conquered the expansion gold mine at the middle to stop the enemy's flying units from destroying your base.

I mean, those trolls, they really give a good trap set [as ABGM stated], one reckless approach and you're dead -> 200 range doesn't mean they will leave you when you're away just a bit, you need to move away from the zone -> in middle you need to leave the area.
Another reason why this is dangerous : 2 Melee newbies play and during night they clash at either bottom and south [lets just say day comes] then they are doomed since they're surrounded.

 

[Orcnet]

Map approved, see swagreview on top

 

[sonofjay]

Well since most of the reviews here missed a lot of points on the terrain side, allow me to point them for you.

First of all the terrain, to be frank, is quite lacking. Yes it is symmetric but its not really enough to get a 4/5 on my book. Its empty in most part and also flat. The illusion you tried to make with spam mushrooms didn't pleased me at all I would prefer if you actually tried to play with more props and doodads that are fitting for a Ashenvale melee map like the ashen statues/buildings and some arcs. Also the huge chunk of cliff in the middle just hurts my eyes I have a problem with repetitive patterns and chunks of cliffs on war3 is included and its making me dizzy. Well you could improvise with a more advance terraining to improve the middle part, that will sure be worthy of a 4 or maybe a 5. Also nice that you flatten the tiles it sure do some magic on the overall appearance of the terrain(I'm more of a fun of the default tile placement though.). Also the paths are quite small for large army. Well I won't say anything about the gameplay since everyone almost said it all other than this melee map, even though a 1v1 map, is kinda hard to rush.

3/5 not bad for your first.

 

[normalice]

At night maybe?

no one waits for nightfall to get their hero. It's unwise and inefficient - because what is there to do until then?

 

[Twilight]

When I played the map I rely Liked it, the terrain is epic, map is epic
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Rating:
-5/5
Stuff to fix
-Nothing to fix